Can you be Christian and believe in evolution?

[expos4ever]

The study of evolution begins with the Big Bang and the process that led to life evolving from a muddy mix.

No

 

[rturner76]

I think we can believe in evolution and many do. The 6 day description is just a nutshell description of evolution. The Big Bang-"Let there be light." First, the formation of the Earth, the water and the land. Then vegetation and the creation of animals. The evolution of mammals into men, the man rules the Earth, names the animals, then goes from the garden (hunting and gathering to farming vegetables (Cain) and farming animals like sheep and other herds, the sacrifice of which pleased God.

There were no people who could read or write so the stories must have been passed through oral tradition which is always steeped in much legend and myth. I don't think the creation story is any different.

 

[truthpls]

Genesis is not science. Bible is not a scientific book.

Yes a superior science book. Those limited to and focused on modern science and it's hopelessly limited abilities and knowledge would not recognize real science when they saw it. It is not only science, but super advanced actual science. I guess cave men and modern scientists would consider it magic.

Among other reasons is the fact that the modern concept of science was unknown to biblical authors, they did not have such genre at all.

Man's knowledge and the lies of Satan dressed as knowledge have been here from the getgo. The fact modern man is so pleased with himself and thinks he is hot stuff and a little god does not change that. No big news there.

Bible was not sent from heaven.

Lie

The text is in no way fresh for us

New every morning actually, treasures new and old. It is alive and we always learn new things with His help.

and thats why you misunderstand it so much. You read it like written in our era.

It is futuristic. Makes the Jetsons seem like the Flintstones.

God did not spoke Genesis or Exodus to Moses.

Says who? How would we know what He spoke in that 80 days? The ten commandments might have taken 20 minutes, and God Himself wrote them on the tablet! Did you think He wrote real slow?

According to the Bible itself, God began to speak to Moses with the burning bush and the most speaking was done about laws and religious instructions in the desert. If you remember.

Yes that part was done. How would we know what else was covered? God also spoke to Moses other times!

The mythological view of creation, sin and death. Not a scientific one.

Science has no view of creation since it ignores it and invents other scenarios. God's word is not myth either. Wrong on all counts.

It has nothing to do with dirt, just stop trying. You made a mistake, it happens.

Read the definition and weep

Yes, all Christians believe that God created/is creating our reality.

Word salad.

Nope, the common church never held a doctrine of 6 literal days creation.

If they believed the bible they did. By the way what 'common church' are you talking about and when?

Which was a wise thing, considering that when the western medieval church tried to hold the biblical geo-centrism, it did not end well either.

Believers never held any view that was false. Now if you are talking about the Catholic church system or something, that is another matter. All Christians hold a view that earth is the important thing in the universe. God is moving here. Nothing is more important. Not only that, but this universe is going bye bye soon as well, but earth will always be here (it will be burned with fire, cleansed and made new) Science considers us a little blue dot with no special significance. Any kindergarten bible believer should be able to spot that Satan is behind that load.

Are you also believing in the flat earth and in the firmament with windows and doors? If not, why not? Its the same Bible.

The windows of heaven opened and closed so of course we all believe in them. Obviously we do not see them today. We also know that heaven opened at times (portal) so doors is a fine word as well. As for the flat earth that is a foolish old wive's tale, not in the bible, of course.

 

[truthpls]

I think we can believe in evolution and many do. The 6 day description is just a nutshell description of evolution.

Nutshell might be a good word there.

The Big Bang-"Let there be light." First, the formation of the Earth, the water and the land.

No. The Big Bang says that stars were here before earth. It can be rejected as a lie.

Then vegetation and the creation of animals. The evolution of mammals into men,

Nowhere is that found in the bible and in fact God specifies how woman and man were made and when.

the man rules the Earth, names the animals, then goes from the garden (hunting and gathering to farming vegetables

False. There was no women on earth when man was created. It was not woman that named the animals. Woman came later. There is no possibility to fit evolution in there.Rather than man evolving, it also specifies God formed us, then moved us to a garden and then made woman.

There were no people who could read or write so the stories must have been passed through oral tradition which is always steeped in much legend and myth. I don't think the creation story is any different.

No, God was right there speaking to some people. Also, oral records were rock solid. Imagine Noah, after the flood, talking to young Abraham. His record was always here.

 

[trophy33]

Yes a superior science book. Those limited to and focused on modern science and it's hopelessly limited abilities and knowledge would not recognize real science when they saw it. It is not only science, but super advanced actual science.

Its simply not science in our meaning of science. The topic is the scientific theory of evolution in the context of our modern science.

If you want to call mythology or non-literal genres "super real super advanced science", you can, but it has no practical use for this discussion.

Says who? How would we know what He spoke in that 80 days? The ten commandments might have taken 20 minutes, and God Himself wrote them on the tablet! Did you think He wrote real slow?

You cannot invent speculations and then ask "who says it was not so". Thats not how proper reasoning works. There is no evidence that Genesis was written by Moses, there is actually enough evidence that for example Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 had different authors and are from different sources.

Science has no view of creation since it ignores it and invents other scenarios.

It does, its called the Big Bang theory.

God's word is not myth either. Wrong on all counts.

There are many mythological elements in the Bible - creation stories, Noah's flood, Babel, Giants, Leviathan, Rahab, dragons, flying serpents...

If they believed the bible they did. By the way what 'common church' are you talking about and when?

If they did, name it. The common church is the worldwide church, in Latin called "catholic".

Believers never held any view that was false. Now if you are talking about the Catholic church system or something, that is another matter. All Christians hold a view that earth is the important thing in the universe. God is moving here. Nothing is more important. Not only that, but this universe is going bye bye soon as well, but earth will always be here (it will be burned with fire, cleansed and made new) Science considers us a little blue dot with no special significance. Any kindergarten bible believer should be able to spot that Satan is behind that load.

Geo-centrism and flat-earthism are in the same Bible as Genesis 1 or Genesis 2. Why do you cherry-pick?

The windows of heaven opened and closed so of course we all believe in them. Obviously we do not see them today. We also know that heaven opened at times (portal) so doors is a fine word as well. As for the flat earth that is a foolish old wive's tale, not in the bible, of course.

And God literally rides on the winds with clouds as His chariots, right? (Ps 104:3). Sigh.

Flat earth is in the Bible, its even in Genesis 1 - the sun, the moon and the stars are just lights in the firmament, biblically.

 

[trophy33]

People have tired and no one has ever shown me where the Bible contradicts itself. No one has ever shown me where the Bible and Science contradict. Even we can use the scientific method to understand our Bible.

Well, you are changing the meaning, Bible contradicting itself is not God contradicting himself, because Bible is not God.

However, if you want to see biblical contradictions in the easiest way, compare two gospels with each other.

If you want to see where Bible and science contradict, compare for example flat earth, geocentrism, firmament or Rahab with the scientific view of the world.

P.S.: Bible and science cannot really contradict, because Bible is not a scientific book and science is not theology. I just go along with with your usage of the word, i.e. with the meaning "if we read Bible wrongly as a scientific book, then...".

 

[truthpls]

Its simply not science in our meaning of science. The topic is the scientific theory of evolution in the context of our modern science.

Modern science then, is not science in the context of God's super superior real science

If you want to call mythology or non-literal genres "super real super advanced science", you can, but it has no practical use for this discussion.

Yes, it shows that there is a superior science and that one must include that in any creation model. Constructing a creation model based solely on the current knowledge of man is hopelessly farcical.

You cannot invent speculations and then ask "who says it was not so". Thats not how proper reasoning works. There is no evidence that Genesis was written by Moses, there is actually enough evidence that Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 had different authors and are from different sources.

There is a wide acceptance that Moses probably was the author. But if God used someone else around that time, why would we doubt He spoke to them also? Claiming Gen 1 and 2 are from different authors is insane projection

It does, its called the Big Bang theory.

The preferred name of fairy tales matters not at all

There are many mythological elements in the Bible - creation stories, Noah's flood, Babel, Giants, Leviathan, Rahab, dragons, flying serpents...

Creation is fact. The flood is fact. (confirmed by Jesus) Giants existed. The great dragon exists. Leviathan existed. Sorry if you thought you got to wave it all away for no apparent reason.

If they did, name it. The common church is the worldwide church, in Latin called "catholic".

I see. That explains it then.

Geo-centrism and flat-earthism are in the same Bible as Genesis 1 or Genesis 2. Why do you cherry-pick?

Not true. Why offer your skewed and doubt laced dreams as bible fact?

And God literally rides on the winds with clouds as His chariots, right? (Ps 104:3). Sigh.

That is news?? He really can boogie

Flat earth is in the Bible,

No. Sorry. False claim

its even in Genesis 1 - the sun, the moon and the stars are just lights in the firmament, biblically.

What did you think they were? They are in space. The same space that is called the firmament.

 

[Ace777]

flat earth

I do not remember seeing that in my science book.

 

[trophy33]

Modern science then, is not science in the context of God's super superior real science

This is just useless playing with words. Why can not you simply accept that our science and the Bible are not the same genre? And you will not need to create this weird needless dancing around it.

There is a wide acceptance that Moses probably was the author.

Moses is the traditional author, the book was included under his name. But it was a common habit to ascribe authorship to a known, prominent figure.

There is no wide acceptance that Moses was the literal author of Genesis, between people educated in the topic. There is little evidence that the book even existed before the Babylonian captivity.
However, I can imagine that among a specific group of people, like fundamentalists, who just read the Bible intuitively and literally as it is, it can be widespread. Such a group is small in the global scale, though.

But if God used someone else around that time, why would we doubt He spoke to them also? Claiming Gen 1 and 2 are from different authors is insane projection

You can study it, if you are interested. You may start with wikipedia and follow the sources: Book of Genesis - Wikipedia

Creation is fact. The flood is fact. (confirmed by Jesus) Giants existed. The great dragon exists. Leviathan existed. Sorry if you thought you got to wave it all away for no apparent reason.

Except of creation, nothing of the list is a scientific fact. Creation in the meaning of our universe having a beginning can be seen as a scientific fact, yes.

Not true. Why offer your skewed and doubt laced dreams as bible fact?

That is news?? He really can boogie

No. Sorry. False claim

What did you think they were? They are in space. The same space that is called the firmament.

If you think that the biblical firmament is the scientific notion of space, you really do not understand what the biblical authors meant.

For learning more, you can again check wikipedia or buy a good Bible Dictionary, if you want it to be rather in print:

Firmament - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ace777]

There is a wide acceptance that Moses probably was the author.

There is also a belief that something is oral tradition long before they write it down.

 

[trophy33]

I do not remember seeing that in my science book.

Good, the flat earth is not a scientific concept.

 

[Ace777]

If you think that the biblical firmament is the scientific notion of space,

The sun produces light through a process called nuclear fusion, which occurs when hydrogen atoms collide and fuse into helium. This process releases energy that builds up and reaches temperatures of 15 million degrees Fahrenheit in the sun's core.

Earth's atmosphere absorbs and reflects solar radiation. When sunlight enters the atmosphere, it changes direction and is refracted, which forms a virtual image of the sun during sunrise and sunset. The light also scatters more when the sun is close to the horizon, especially longer wavelengths like yellow, orange, and red, which creates colorful skies. This is due to particles in the atmosphere scattering light from the sun.

When a ray of light approaches a smooth polished surface and the light ray bounces back, it is called the reflection of light. The incident light ray that land on the surface is reflected off the surface. The ray that bounces back is called the reflected ray.

When light hits the retina (a light-sensitive layer of tissue at the back of the eye), special cells called photoreceptors turn the light into electrical signals. These electrical signals travel from the retina through the optic nerve to the brain. The brain's visual cortex processes the images and allows us to see.

The frequency of visible light is approximately 400–700 terahertz (THz), with a THz being a unit of frequency equal to one trillion Hertz. The human eye typically responds to wavelengths from about 380 to about 750 nanometers (nm), which corresponds to a frequency range of approximately 400–790 THz. However, these boundaries are not sharply defined and may vary per individual.

Of course it is all a lot more complicated than this but this gives us a simple understanding of what is happening. The main thing is light is filtered and light is reflected. The primary colors are different for filtered light and reflected light.

If you want to know more I have a text book here on the eyes and how we are able to perceive what we see.

 

[Ace777]

Good, the flat earth is not a scientific concept.

When Jesus said we are to become as a child that maybe a step up for some people. There was a program on TV are you smarter than a fifth grader. The answer is a lot of people cannot even function at a fifth grade level. Yet they think they know more than the PhD that has devoted days, weeks, months and years to study what they have not give ten seconds of consideration to.

Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? 20 Questions for Geniuses

Try the online version of Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader game with original 2021 questions! Can you beat an 11-year-old at this simple trivia quiz?

www.quizexpo.com

 

[Cis.jd]

I'm not a believer of evolution but I don't reject it either. I don't think a Christian is required to reject evolution because personally I don't think evolution and creation are at odds. I guess it all boils down to whether you see God as a designer to be comfortable with harmonizing evolution and creation. Regardless, The Nicene creed is what is important.

There are more important topics in regards to christian views, such as apologetic/theological topics than the topic of evolution.

 

[Ace777]

 

[BeyondET]

And God literally rides on the winds with clouds as His chariots, right? (Ps 104:3). Sigh.

The verse says walks not ride.

Psalm 104:3 (NKJV)
3 He lays the beams of His upper chambers in the waters,
Who makes the clouds His chariot,
Who walks on the wings of the wind,

 

[BeyondET]

How about some skin vision

 

[Ace777]

How about some skin vision

How do bats see? Many bats use echolocation to "see with sound", which is the process of emitting high-frequency sound pulses through their mouth or nose and listening to the echo.

Of course the post has to do with the atmosphere and what God was doing on the fourth day.
He did not create eyes to see until the sixth day.

 

[BeyondET]

How do bats see? Many bats use echolocation to "see with sound", which is the process of emitting high-frequency sound pulses through their mouth or nose and listening to the echo.

Of course the post has to do with the atmosphere and what God was doing on the fourth day.
He did not create eyes to see until the sixth day.

Animals had eyes before man, and some are the most advanced vision on the planet.

 

[Ace777]

There are more important topics in regards to christian views, such as apologetic/theological topics than the topic of evolution.

The issue has to do with the law of first use in the Bible. All of the Bible explains the first word in the Bible. What began, when did it begin and why did it begin. The next four words are God Created Heaven Earth. Most people agree that it did not take God a whole week to do what He could do in an instant or a brief moment of time. Or does He turn on a light switch so we can see what is already there? Does He need a witness to see what He is doing? What is the observer effect? How much does the observer effect what is being observed?