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"Rapture" Is the Second Coming in New Testament. Thessalonians.

Michael Snow

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Much confusion when Christians base their views on fiction books and movies. And more damaging, when Scripture interpretation is based on "what this verse means to me"

"No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation” (2 Peter 1:20).​

So, Back to the Bible. Back to Context in 1 Thessalonians.

 
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Eight views on the RAPTURE and the Tribulation:

1. Pre-tribulation view

The rapture occurs before the 7 year tribulation period begins.
2. Partial-tribulation view
Not all believers will be raptured, only those who have some degree of spiritual attainment.
Unworthy Christians will be left behind during the tribulation.
3. Mid-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the midpoint of the 7 year tribulation period.
4. Post-tribulation view
The rapture occurs at the end of the 7 year tribulation period.
5. Amillennial view
Amillennialists hold very different views. Most believe there is no Rapture.
They negate the supernatural aspects of the book of Revelation because they see most of it as allegorical teaching.
6. Indignant-tribber view
These people think that debating eschatology is always wrong and divisive.
They wag their fingers at the rest of us. “Shame, shame, shame!”
7. Independent thinkers
Disagree with all the viewpoints listed above. They only, interpret the scriptures correctly.
Could they really be the smartest people on the planet?
8. Undecided
These people come to forums like this hoping to gain insight and understanding.

So many flavours, so much confusion, so here is my suggestion:
For transparency we could declare our bias within our “signatures”.
(“Staunch Pre-Trib, Dispensationalist”, “Proudly Independent”, etc.)
This would make it so much easier to identify friends/foes and expedite the formation of “tag teams” (similar to pro-wrestling).
 
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Five Good Reasons for a Pre-Trib Rapture

REASON #1: The Church Is Not Appointed to Wrath

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him
1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

REASON #2: The Church Will Be Kept From the Hour of Trial

Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

REASON #3: God’s Dealings With The Jewish Nation

The seven year Tribulation is specifically a time for God to work with the Jews.
(remember that the Tribulation is called “Daniel’s seventieth week” and “the time of Jacob’s trouble”)
Gabriel, God’s chief messenger angel speaking to Daniel…

“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city…” (Daniel 9:24) it was a time frame for God to deal with Daniel’s people (the Jews) and his holy city (Jerusalem).

The (now 2000 year) Church Age is “a parenthesis” inserted between weeks 69 and 70. Throughout the church age “…blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved…” (Romans 11:25) The church age began at Pentecost with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and will end with the rapture of the church. Following the removal of the church (composed of Jew and gentile, but mostly gentile) the blinders will be removed from the eyes of the Jewish people so that a remnant can be saved during the Tribulation (the 70th week).

Romans 10:19: “I will provoke you [the Jews] to jealousy by those who are not a nation [the Church]. I will move you to anger by a foolish nation” [the Church].

We are in the time of Israel’s “jealousy” right now. Christians love the Jews, support them, and defend them, even though the Jews have no love for us. But their “jealousy” will turn to “anger” after the church is caught away and they are without any support.
God’s chosen people will then be inclined to turn back to Him, when they have no friends left on earth. “God loves the Jews, but presently the Jews don’t love Him.” It’s unfortunate that it will take a series of catastrophic events to bring them to the Lord as a nation. Hosea 5: “In their affliction [Tribulation] they will earnestly seek Me.”

REASON #4: The Escape Doctrine

Scoffers have used this term derisively, but it was coined by the Lord Himself.

Luke 21:36: “ Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of Man.”

REASON #5: We Are Rewarded While Unbelievers Are Judged

It’s very clear that we’ll be receiving our rewards while the earth is being judged.
These are simultaneous events.

Revelation 11:18 declares:

The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead [saints], that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints [the church],
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy [concurrently] those who destroy the earth.

After receiving our rewards, we return to the earth with the Lord. It is literally a new
day. The 7th one thousand year day we call the Millennium. The Jews call it the long
awaited “Kingdom Age.”
 
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Douggg

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The seven year Tribulation is specifically a time for God to work with the Jews.
Error of the pre-trib view. The seven years is not all tribulation. For much of the first part of the seven years, the world will be saying peace and safety, thinking it has entered the messianic age. But it will be a false messianic age.

The pre-trib view is actually a misnomer. It should be called the pre-70th week view. Switch to this. Anytime from right this very second until the day the Antichrist commits the ToD act. The rapture could take place pre-70th week. But not necessarily.




ratpure window 8.jpg
 
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Michael Snow

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Any views that depend on eisegesis rather than exegesis are not Biblical

Here is an example REASON #1: The Church Is Not Appointed to Wrath

 
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Spiritual Jew

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Five Good Reasons for a Pre-Trib Rapture

REASON #1: The Church Is Not Appointed to Wrath

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him
1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
These verses have applied to Christians since the beginning of Christianity. Did anyone before need to be taken off of the earth in order to avoid God's wrath? No. So, why would that be the case in the future? Only once Christ returns and His final wrath affects the entire earth (Matt 24:37-39, 2 Peter 3:10-12) would believers need to be taken off of the earth in order to avoid God's wrath. God is perfectly capable of protecting us from His wrath in the meantime.

REASON #2: The Church Will Be Kept From the Hour of Trial

Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
The Greek words translated as keep...from in that verse are tereo and ek. The words are used together in this verse as well:

John 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep (Greek: tereo) them from (Greek: ek) the evil.

Do we need to be taken off of the earth in order to be kept from evil? No. Jesus even prayed that His followers would not be taken out of the world. So, your interpretation of Revelation 3:10 is flawed.

REASON #3: God’s Dealings With The Jewish Nation

The seven year Tribulation is specifically a time for God to work with the Jews.
(remember that the Tribulation is called “Daniel’s seventieth week” and “the time of Jacob’s trouble”)
Gabriel, God’s chief messenger angel speaking to Daniel…

“Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city…” (Daniel 9:24) it was a time frame for God to deal with Daniel’s people (the Jews) and his holy city (Jerusalem).

The (now 2000 year) Church Age is “a parenthesis” inserted between weeks 69 and 70. Throughout the church age “…blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved…” (Romans 11:25) The church age began at Pentecost with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and will end with the rapture of the church. Following the removal of the church (composed of Jew and gentile, but mostly gentile) the blinders will be removed from the eyes of the Jewish people so that a remnant can be saved during the Tribulation (the 70th week).

Romans 10:19: “I will provoke you [the Jews] to jealousy by those who are not a nation [the Church]. I will move you to anger by a foolish nation” [the Church].

We are in the time of Israel’s “jealousy” right now. Christians love the Jews, support them, and defend them, even though the Jews have no love for us. But their “jealousy” will turn to “anger” after the church is caught away and they are without any support.
God’s chosen people will then be inclined to turn back to Him, when they have no friends left on earth. “God loves the Jews, but presently the Jews don’t love Him.” It’s unfortunate that it will take a series of catastrophic events to bring them to the Lord as a nation. Hosea 5: “In their affliction [Tribulation] they will earnestly seek Me.”
This is all false. There is no parenthesis in the 70 week prophecy. That is something people made up to try to get their interpretations of other scripture to fit with Daniel 9:24-27. The prophecy itself gives no indication whatsoever that there would be any gap or parenthesis in it. The 70th week was fulfilled by the ministry of Jesus on the earth, His death and resurrection and the gospel being preached first to Israel before going to the Gentile nations. Jesus confirmed the new covenant with His death and that ushered in the new covenant while effectually putting an end to the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings.

REASON #4: The Escape Doctrine

Scoffers have used this term derisively, but it was coined by the Lord Himself.

Luke 21:36: “ Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass,
and to stand before the Son of Man.”
What things was Jesus alluding to there? Let's look at the verse in context, which is something that pre-tribs rarely do.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Jesus was talking about something that would occur on "that day" that will catch people by surprise. He was talking about His wrath. As Paul wrote in 1 Thess 5:2-3, "sudden destruction" will come upon unbelievers unexpectedly like a thief in the night when Christ returns. At that point, "heaven and earth shall pass away". That is what Jesus is saying to pray to escape. God's final wrath that results in heaven and earth passing away, as described in 2 Peter 3:10-12. When you look at the context of what Jesus was saying in Luke 21:36 you should be able to see that He was not talking about escaping anything before that day of Christ's return and His final wrath coming down upon the entire earth.

REASON #5: We Are Rewarded While Unbelievers Are Judged

It’s very clear that we’ll be receiving our rewards while the earth is being judged.
These are simultaneous events.

Revelation 11:18 declares:

The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead [saints], that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints [the church],
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy [concurrently] those who destroy the earth.

After receiving our rewards, we return to the earth with the Lord. It is literally a new
day. The 7th one thousand year day we call the Millennium. The Jews call it the long
awaited “Kingdom Age.”
How is this evidence for a pre-trib rapture? That makes no sense whatsoever. Nothing that scripture states and nothing you said here supports the pre-trib rapture doctrine.
 
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JulieB67

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REASON #1: The Church Is Not Appointed to Wrath

Rom 5:9
Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him
1Th 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Tribulation is not the same as wrath.

REASON #2: The Church Will Be Kept From the Hour of Trial

Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
As someone else mentioned-the word "keep" in the Greek means to guard over. This is the very same Greek word Christ used when praying to the Father and asking him to "keep them from evil but not removed from the earth.

REASON #3: God’s Dealings With The Jewish Nation

The seven year Tribulation is specifically a time for God to work with the Jews.
Traditions of men.

And remember only 2 tribes that are sealed are likely what we consider Jewish -Judah/Benjamin and some of Levi. The rest scattered long ago many being Christians today.
 
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