Israel-Hamas Thread II

[ralliann]

The currency of the number of dead changes as well when we have the number of projectiles fired by Israel into population zones. The degree of terrorism is far greater.

Because Hamas is among them. Either by the population willingly or unwillingly.

 

[truthpls]

Because Hamas is among them. Either by the population willingly or unwillingly.

So what? That does not give you the excuse to mass murder and starve them and deprive them of basic needs like water and medical. No more than a building in New York that has rats gives you the opportunity to blow it up with the people in it.

 

[Philip_B]

Because Hamas is among them. Either by the population willingly or unwillingly.

So when Hamas attacks civilians in Israel we call it an act of terrorism and label them a terrorist organisation.

And when Israel attacks civilians in Gaza we call it an appropriate response with an unfortunate and entirely foreseeable unacceptable level of civilian casualties.

I don't buy the distinction. No one in this conflict has covered themselves with Glory.

Laudate Dominum, laudate Dominum, Omnes gentes, alléluia !​

Laudate Dominum, laudate Dominum, Omnes gentes, alléluia !​

​

Sing Praise and Bless the Lord, Sing Praise and Bless the Lord, Peoples Nations, Alleluia!​

Sing Praise and Bless the Lord, Sing Praise and Bless the Lord, Peoples Nations, Alleluia!​

 

[JosephZ]

What's Behind Resurgent Fighting In North Gaza?

Israel's war against Hamas has shifted back to parts of northern Gaza where the military said months ago the militant group had been neutralised.

Fighters have regrouped since the army in early January announced it had "completed the dismantling of Hamas's military framework in the northern Gaza Strip"

A military spokesman told AFP on Friday that renewed fighting in Gaza's northern town of Jabalia was "perhaps the fiercest" in more than seven months of war, sparked by Hamas's October 7 attack on southern Israel.

Experts told AFP the destruction of Gaza in relentless Israeli bombardment and fighting, and the lack of an alternative Palestinian government have driven Hamas recruitment during the war.

"If you look at the devastation among Palestinian civilians across the board, it's quite easy to recruit these people into armed resistance," said Andreas Krieg, professor at King's College London.

According to experts, Hamas's extensive tunnel network, estimated to run more than 500 kilometres (310 miles), has not been significantly damaged, and the group has stockpiles of its home-made "Yassin 105" anti-tank missiles which are regularly fired at Israeli troops.

The Islamist group, which has been in power in Gaza since 2007, was estimated to have about 30,000 fighters before October 7.

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said this month that "14,000 fighters were killed".

Experts however say the group has probably been able to quickly replenish its ranks.

"For every Hamas member that they kill, the Israelis are providing recruitment potential for four, because of the anger generated by the many more civilians the IDF (army) is killing," said H. A. Hellyer, security expert at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace and the Royal United Services Institute.

"It's a difficult and unrealistic prospect to imagine that Israel can... completely defeat them, eradicate them," said Hanna.

 

[ralliann]

So what?

So what? Use your own people as weapons of war? No....

That does not give you the excuse

It is not an excuse, it is a reality of Hamas. They will put their own people out there to hide befind. No amount of excusing their ways of war, by blaming someone else is gonna work.

to mass murder and starve them and deprive them of basic needs like water and medical.

Hamas again. They even operate from Schools yards.

No more than a building in New York that has rats gives you the opportunity to blow it up with the people in it.

?????
Hamas flocks to buildings with people in it, to engage their enemy.

 

[truthpls]

So what? Use your own people as weapons of war? No....

They are not the ones killing their own people here.

It is not an excuse, it is a reality of Hamas. They will put their own people out there to hide befind. No amount of excusing their ways of war, by blaming someone else is gonna work.

None of your business what they like to do. No excuse to mass murder children

Hamas again. They even operate from Schools yards.

?????
Hamas flocks to buildings with people in it, to engage their enemy.

How cowardly, to use some rats in the city as an excuse to kill tens of thousands of women and children, and starve a population. Cruel, evil, and displays that they do not have the love of God in them, just as Jesus told some of them.

 

[ralliann]

They are not the ones killing their own people here.

They are hiding behind them, so yes, they are.

None of your business what they like to do. No excuse to mass murder children

Then none of yours either what Israel does. No excuses to fight with Children in front of you for a sheild.

How cowardly, to use some rats in the city as an excuse to kill tens of thousands of women and children, and starve a population. Cruel, evil, and displays that they do not have the love of God in them, just as Jesus told some of them.

Hamas causes this.

 

[truthpls]

They are hiding behind them, so yes, they are.

No, Israel is killing and starving the people. They use Hamas an the excuse. Like a school shooter telling some student that they are the reason 40 people were killed in the school, because they treated him badly years ago. The reality is that the shooter was the killer.

Then none of yours either what Israel does.

Yes, just as it was the world's business when Hitler killed civilians.

No excuses to fight with Children in front of you for a sheild.

Hamas causes this.

When a hospital, an apartment were destroyed, a fleeing convoy of people and aid workers are mowed down, it was not because they had little hostages in front of them. That is such a phony excuse and cowardly falsehood.

 

[Pommer]

They are hiding behind them, so yes, they are.

Then none of yours either what Israel does. No excuses to fight with Children in front of you for a sheild.

Hamas causes this.

Is Hamas going to make Israel kill all of the hostages as the IDF wipes them out?

 

[Ana the Ist]

So when Hamas attacks civilians in Israel we call it an act of terrorism and label them a terrorist organisation.

And when Israel attacks civilians in Gaza we call it an appropriate response with an unfortunate and entirely foreseeable unacceptable level of civilian casualties.

Absolutely....here's the distinguishing difference.

Hamas targets civilians....deliberately. They target innocent people without warning or mercy. They kidnap civilians....from babies to the elderly.

The IDF on the other hand warns civilians when they're in a targeted war zone and gives them time to evacuate. Is it perfect? No. But it's a wide gulf between what Hamas does.

Stop defending terrorists.

 

[Philip_B]

Absolutely....here's the distinguishing difference.

Hamas targets civilians....deliberately. They target innocent people without warning or mercy. They kidnap civilians....from babies to the elderly.

The IDF on the other hand warns civilians when they're in a targeted war zone and gives them time to evacuate. Is it perfect? No. But it's a wide gulf between what Hamas does.

Stop defending terrorists.

I am not defending terrorists, but given the amount of deliberate fear the IDF has fed into Gaza, I am wondering if you are going to follow your own advice and stop defending terrorists.

 

[truthpls]

Absolutely....here's the distinguishing difference.

Hamas targets civilians....deliberately. They target innocent people without warning or mercy. They kidnap civilians....from babies to the elderly.

The IDF on the other hand warns civilians when they're in a targeted war zone and gives them time to evacuate. Is it perfect? No. But it's a wide gulf between what Hamas does.

Stop defending terrorists.

The warnings, as far as I am concerned are more terrorism. They warn people to flee fleeing convoys are attacked. They warn populations to flee, then attack the place where they were told to flee to, this time given another warning. Etc. The terrorists kill tens of thousands of people, and starve a population. Evil and cruel godless terrorists.

 

[ralliann]

Is Hamas going to make Israel kill all of the hostages as the IDF wipes them out?

The hostages may be dead already. Either way this is all on Hamas.

 

[ralliann]

Absolutely....here's the distinguishing difference.

Hamas targets civilians....deliberately. They target innocent people without warning or mercy. They kidnap civilians....from babies to the elderly.

The IDF on the other hand warns civilians when they're in a targeted war zone and gives them time to evacuate. Is it perfect? No. But it's a wide gulf between what Hamas does.

Stop defending terrorists.

Defending Hamas will only guarantee them to continue this behavior.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israeli government shuts down Associated Press live shot of Gaza, seizes equipment​

The Associated Press on Tuesday said Israeli authorities had shut down its live camera feed showing Gaza and seized its equipment in what it decried as an “abusive use by the Israeli government of the country’s new foreign broadcasters law.”

“The Associated Press decries in the strongest terms the actions of the Israeli government,” the non-profit news collective said in a statement. “We urge the Israeli authorities to return our equipment and enable us to reinstate our live feed immediately so we can continue to provide this important visual journalism to thousands of media outlets around the world.”

the Foreign Press Association did voice its alarm about the shutdown and confiscation.

“Israel’s move today is a slippery slope. Israel could block other international news agencies from providing live footage of Gaza. It also could allow Israel to block media coverage of virtually any news event on vague security grounds,” the FPA said in a statement.

At first they came for Al Jazeera...

 

[Philip_B]

Defending Hamas will only guarantee them to continue this behavior.

In my view, questioning the actions of Israel does not constitute defending Hamas.
In my view, trying to understand what the Hamas/Palestinian issues are does not constitute defending Hamas.
In my view, murder and the taking of hostages is unacceptable.
In my view, holding the entire region in fear and terror is also unacceptable.
In my view, none of these statements constitutes defending Hamas.

 

[wing2000]

[Former Israeli defense minister and war cabinet member Benny] Gantz warns he will withdraw from government if war cabinet does not lay out a plan by early June​

He said the plan should eliminate Hamas, bring back the hostages, establish an alternative government in the strip, bring back Israeli residents to the north of Israel, and set up a plan to make progress on normalization with Saudi Arabia.

Gantz said Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu must choose between "victory and disaster" as he issued the ultimatum.

+
"Demands for a plan: Gantz's ultimatum comes days after current Defense Minister Yoav Gallant publicly demanded a post-war plan and warned he would oppose Israeli rule in Gaza — his most direct statement on the topic. Gallant warned of the consequences of a long-term Israeli military presence in Gaza and called out Netanyahu directly."

Netanyahu has no plan.

 

[wing2000]

Then it seems like the smart move would be to continue the devastation until the civilian population is gone.

This is arguably the most amusing part of this entire argument....

What happened in Iraq? Well, regardless of any efforts to build, the moment we left it was swept over by ISIS and a worse enemy controlled the area.

What happened in Afghanistan? Well, despite 20 years of attempting to build anything, it immediately fell as we began to leave to the exact enemies we had been fighting the entire time.

Who exactly is giving the lessons here?

Exactly my point. If there is no governing authority to take the place of Hamas, Hamas will continue to fill that space. Israel could have learned from the US experience....

 

[Ted-01]

In my view, trying to understand what the Hamas/Palestinian issues are does not constitute defending Hamas.

This sounds reasonable to me, as do the other parts of your post that I snipped this from, but I need to ask...
Aren't we a little bit late in trying to understand the Hamas/Palestinian/Gazan issues?

They're a rather old institution/group... coming to power, officially in the early 2000's, and I think that trying to stop a war so we can catch up in order to gain understanding, seems a bit unreasonable. Even more so if we take into account that in the 1980's they changed their name from Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, which has history back into the 1950's.

So, I really don't get it when folks call for Israel to stop the fighting for, essentially, the benefit of "outsiders" to gain perspective? I also don't understand why people keep claiming that Israel is murdering and starving innocent Gazans when, as already stated, the IDF has been declaring safe zones and giving advanced warnings before the beginning of an offensive. It seems to me, that if people stay, regardless of the reasons, fault should not be assigned to the IDF.

 

[ralliann]

In my view, questioning the actions of Israel does not constitute defending Hamas.

Not the issue

In my view, trying to understand what the Hamas/Palestinian issues are does not constitute defending Hamas.

To do that accurate history is needed. The land was neither Israel's nor the Palestinian. It belonged to others.

In my view, murder and the taking of hostages is unacceptable.

Good.

In my view, holding the entire region in fear and terror is also unacceptable.

Hamas should surrender, and allow Palestinians to leave if they refuse.

In my view, none of these statements constitutes defending Hamas.

No, they don't. They just distort who is doing what. Which supports Hamas.