Is modern secular society headed down the path to Sodom and Gomorrah.

[Hans Blaster]

Why do you believe that Joseph Smith Jr was a "con man"?

His court records for start. Then it just continues.

 

[BCP1928]

Why do you believe that God and His plan for His children is my idea?

Because your idea of God's plan for his children is not quite the same as many other's. Wrapping all of those disparate issues into one vast, monolithic conspiracy is definitely your idea.

 

[Zaha Torte]

Ultimately, as you know, it's not whether or not I approve of it or anyone else approves of it. And I know that if I was merely left to myself and my own thoughts in this life, without recourse to a large number of insights about the world in which we live, polygamy and/or polyamory would look especially appealing, as they have to many men.

For the moment, it's good to know that you question these things as well.

For the record - the practice of polygamy in the early-LDS Church was not very appealing and many left the Church because of it.

Those who practiced it also expressed discomfort - including the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr.

 

[BCP1928]

Ultimately, as you know, it's not whether or not I approve of it or anyone else approves of it. And I know that if I was merely left to myself and my own thoughts in this life, without recourse to a large number of insights about the world in which we live, polygamy and/or polyamory would look especially appealing, as they have to many men.

For the moment, it's good to know that you question these things as well.

I don't know. I lived for a couple of years in a Muslim country where polygamy is allowed. Very few men actually take it up.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

For the record - the practice of polygamy in the early-LDS Church was not very appealing and many left the Church because of it.

Those who practiced it also expressed discomfort - including the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr.

So, let me assume, then, that if I put on my historian's hat and I go looking for corroboration for these statements of yours, not only will I find corroboration for them but I'll find them with contexts fitting the implications that you've alluded to about them.

May I assume this will be the case?

 

[Zaha Torte]

His court records for start. Then it just continues.

Are you referring to the pre-trail hearing or the mess regarding the bank?

 

[Zaha Torte]

Because your idea of God's plan for his children is not quite the same as many other's. Wrapping all of those disparate issues into one vast, monolithic conspiracy is definitely your idea.

I am definitely not the source of the idea that Satan exists and that he is waging a spiritual war with us at all times.

I am also not the source of the idea that God has decreed that all sexual activity outside of a man and woman who are legally and lawfully married is sexual sin and should be avoided.

Just because I disagree with other people about God and His plan for us - that does not mean that I am the source of these and other ideas.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Are you referring to the pre-trail hearing or the mess regarding the bank?

I was thinking of his pre-"revelation" conviction in upstate NY. I'd forgotten about his other legal troubles. It isn't helping his case.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I don't know. I lived for a couple of years in a Muslim country where polygamy is allowed. Very few men actually take it up.

Yes, I'm aware that polygamy is rather a complicated scenario for any man to choose today and it's not that widespread in practice, even in the Middle-East. Polygamy was complicated even thousands of years ago, but it's just more so today. I'm not surprised if Muslim men don't often take up their cultural entitlements.

 

[BCP1928]

Yes, I'm aware that polygamy is rather a complicated scenario for any man to choose today and it's not that widespread in practice, even in the Middle-East. Polygamy was complicated even thousands of years ago, but it's just more so today. I'm not surprised if Muslim men don't often take up their cultural entitlements.

Sometimes they do, for other reasons than just more sex. My next-door neighbor was an elderly married man with grown children when his brother died, leaving a childless, impoverished widow. He married her without thought of consummation, but merely to give her the protection of his household in a country where single women have few rights. It was considered by all to be an honorable thing to do.

 

[Aaron112]

So, let me assume, then, that if I put on my historian's hat and I go looking for corroboration for these statements of yours, not only will I find corroboration for them but I'll find them with contexts fitting the implications that you've alluded to about them.

May I assume this will be the case?

Surely you know better than to assume anything.
The momrons teachings are fatal to the souls trapped/ tricked. Like all false teachers, the followers don't realize the danger they are in, nor the danger to their own little children , and others.
The false gospels are extremely widespread today, and have been always.
But people taught by a false gospel, believe false gospels are okay - live and let live so to speak.

Like letting carnivorous mammals feast on the flesh of one's own family and friends !!

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Sometimes they do, for other reasons than just more sex. My next-door neighbor was an elderly married man with grown children when his brother died, leaving a childless, impoverished widow. He married her without thought of consummation, but merely to give her the protection of his household in a country where single women have few rights. It was considered by all to be an honorable thing to do.

And was your next-door neighbor already married when he took that widow in? I'm just asking because I know that somewhere in the middle of this, we'll want to designate the semantic and denotative differences between: polygamy, polygyny, polyandry, and the current favorite, polyamory.

 

[Zaha Torte]

So, let me assume, then, that if I put on my historian's hat and I go looking for corroboration for these statements of yours, not only will I find corroboration for them but I'll find them with contexts fitting the implications that you've alluded to about them.

May I assume this will be the case?

Correct - many of the brethren for decades after the martyrdom of the Prophet Joseph Smith Jr continued to berate the early-LDS Church because of their resistance to - not only the practice of - but the very idea of plural marriage.

 

[Zaha Torte]

I was thinking of his pre-"revelation" conviction in upstate NY. I'd forgotten about his other legal troubles. It isn't helping his case.

The Prophet Joseph Smith Jr claimed to have been visited by both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in what has since been referred to as the Sacred Grove when he was only fourteen years old.

Perhaps you meant pre-founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

The only legal proceedings that I was aware of that he dealt with before the founding of the LDS Church was the pre-trial hearing that I have already mentioned.

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Prophet Joseph Smith Jr claimed to have been visited by both God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ in what has since been referred to as the Sacred Grove when he was only fourteen years old.

Perhaps you meant pre-founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

The only legal proceedings that I was aware of that he dealt with before the founding of the LDS Church was the pre-trial hearing that I have already mentioned.

I didn't realize about the 1830 NY case, but I was thinking of the 1826 NY case:

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

 

[Zaha Torte]

I didn't realize about the 1830 NY case, but I was thinking of the 1826 NY case:

Joseph Smith and the criminal justice system - Wikipedia

This was the pre-trial hearing - or rather examination - that I was referring to.

It was not a trial - he was not found guilty of any crime - and the court costs were paid.

 

[Hans Blaster]

This was the pre-trial hearing - or rather examination - that I was referring to.

It was not a trial - he was not found guilty of any crime - and the court costs were paid.

So many other crimes listed...

 

[Zaha Torte]

So many other crimes listed...

A lot of charges laid against him time and time again. He was not popular among certain circles.

 

[Hans Blaster]

A lot of charges laid against him time and time again. He was not popular among certain circles.

Including with the husbands of his additional wives. You're not going to get me to think Smith was some sort of marter instead of a disreputable person using religion to manipulated and gain power.

 

[BCP1928]

And was your next-door neighbor already married when he took that widow in? I'm just asking because I know that somewhere in the middle of this, we'll want to designate the semantic and denotative differences between: polygamy, polygyny, polyandry, and the current favorite, polyamory.

Yes, he already had one wife.