Election's Historicity (Doctrinal Counter Perspective)

[Clare73]

The root Greek word for "Strangers of the world" is this 1290 [e]Diasporas. It refers specifically to the Jewish Diaspora.

Agreed. . .

In fact, had Peter simply said Jews, it would be flimsy, but by specifying Diaspora... it immediately binds to Jacob's lineage by Blood.

Should we erase this because it disagrees with the doctrines of "Election" and "Limited Atonement"?

Would it not be the Christian Jews of "obedience to Jesus Christ" (1 Pe 1:2) in the Diaspora?

How does that disagree with election to faith in Jesus Christ; i.e., salvation?

 

[Clare73]

It doesn't matter what translation is used, I refer to all of them in study. Computers are amazing.

You glossed over Jesus' statement to Philip.... Why?

I have no problem with the statement. . .God is one God.

 

[Grip Docility]

Agreed. . .

Would it not be the Christian Jews of "obedience to Jesus Christ" in the Diasporas?

How does that disagree with election to faith in Jesus Christ; i.e., salvation?

This may be painful to hear, but not once does Paul call gentiles "Elect". Christ is Elect for one specific purpose and immensely genetic reason. Whereas, Peter outright addresses "The Elect".

I will not connect the dots.... just yet. You are a warrior for Jesus and I want to see how far you are willing to go... that you may hear his voice when He said... (Mt 15:9) I do not believe that you worship Him "in vain", but I wonder if you will exalt scripture above the words of a French Theologian.

 

[Grip Docility]

I have no problem with the statement. . .God is one God.

Now, back to Colossians, If a Jehovah's witness reads Colossians "Correctly", Can they deny that Jesus is the very Pre-Eminent incarnation of YH-H that interfaced with Moses?

 

[Clare73]

This may be painful to hear, but not once does Paul call gentiles "Elect".

All those in the church of Rome were Jews (Ro 8:33)?

Paul pastored only Jews (2 Ti 2:10)?

Titus pastored only Jews in Crete (Tit 1:5)?

Christ is Elect for one specific purpose. Whereas, Peter outright addresses "The Elect".

There were not two bodies of Christ, one of Jews and one of Gentiles.

Peter being an apostle of the gospel of Jesus Christ, "The Elect" whom he is addressing are those of faith in Jesus Christ.
Peter told them to "make their calling and election sure" (2 Pe 2:10).
So they were not Jews who were already elect simply by the fact of being Jews.

I will not connect the dots.... just yet. You are a warrior for Jesus and I want to see how far you are willing to go...

I will not go beyond/contrary to the NT Scriptures.

that you may here his voice when He said... (Mt 15:9)

???

 

[Grip Docility]

All those in the church of Rome were Jews (Ro 8:33)?

Paul pastored only Jews (2 Ti 2:10)?

Titus pastored only Jews in Crete (Tit 1:5)?

There were not two bodies of Christ, one of Jews and one of Gentiles.

Peter being an apostle of the gospel of Jesus Christ, "The Elect" whom he is addressing are those of faith in Jesus Christ.

???

There is a barrier for you on Colossians 1 and this matter within Romans 9-11 and 1 Peter.

Shouldn't what is being kept in the dark be brought to the light? Will you name it?

I once knew a man that was on a very special Submarine for 3 years of his life. It was so efficient that the only way to find it was to look for the silence within where it hid. Does this make sense?

 

[Clare73]

Now, back to Colossians, If a Jehovah's witness reads Colossians "Correctly", Can they deny that Jesus is the very Pre-Eminent incarnation of YH-H that interfaced with Moses?

Image (Col 1:15) is not incarnation.
Mankind is made in the image of God.

 

[Clare73]

There is a barrier for you on Colossians 1 and this matter within Romans 9-11 and 1 Peter.

Shouldn't what is being kept in the dark be brought to the light? Will you name it?

All must be presented in and in agreement with NT teaching.
Prophecy is figurative, and subject to more than one interpretation.

For my belief, all interpretation of prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) must be in agreement with NT apostolic teaching.

I once knew a man that was on a very special Submarine for 3 years of his life. It was so efficient that the only way to find it was to look for the silence within where it hid. Does this make sense?

To find it during the three years, or afterward?

I take the NT at its word, unless it states otherwise.

I take "caught up to the third heaven" (throne of God) at its word, and in the way it is presented.

 

[Grip Docility]

All must be presented in and in agreement with NT teaching.
Prophecy is figurative, and subject to more than one interpretation.

For my belief, all interpretation of prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) must be in agreement with NT apostolic teaching.

To find it during the three years, or afterward?

I take the NT at its word, unless it states otherwise.

I take "caught up to the third heaven" (throne of God) at its word, and in the way it is presented.

I am certain now. I see the silence. Will you now bring forth from the darkness, what you are hiding from me in your doctrine, so that we can, together, discuss it in the light?

Initiating Active Ping.

 

[Grip Docility]

Image (Col 1:15) is not incarnation.
Mankind is made in the image of God.

So, you don't believe that Colossians 1 is about the very Incarnation of God?

 

[Clare73]

I am certain now. I see the silence. Will you now bring forth from the darkness, what you are hiding from me in your doctrine, so that we can, together, discuss it in the light?

Initiating Active Ping.

Prophecy is riddle (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation.
I do not take personal interpretation of prophetic riddles as doctrine.
For my belief, all interpretation of prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) must be in agreement with NT apostolic teaching.

Therefore, I am cautious regarding what the NT texts actually present, for I measure all personal interpretation of prophecy by NT teaching.

 

[Clare73]

So, you don't believe that Colossians 1 is about the very Incarnation of God?

Colossians is not about incarnating, as is Jn 1:14. . .Col is about the supremacy of the one who was incarnated (presented in Jn 1:14).

 

[Grip Docility]

Prophecy is riddle (Nu 12:8) and subject to more than one interpretation.
I do not take personal interpretation of prophetic riddles as doctrine.
For my belief, all interpretation of prophetic riddles (Nu 12:8) must be in agreement with NT apostolic teaching.

Therefore, I am cautious regarding what the NT texts actually present, for I measure all personal interpretation of prophecy by NT teaching.

Are you willing to express that you reject the manmade doctrine of Double Predestination?

 

[Grip Docility]

Colossians is not about incarnating, as is Jn 1:14. . .Col is about the supremacy of the one who was incarnated (presented in Jn 1:14).

How about, by the words palatable to your understanding which you have just expressed..... Is Colossians 1 an Important passage of Scripture that demonstrates who Jesus Christ is and What He has accomplished?

 

[Clare73]

Are you willing to express that you reject the manmade doctrine of Double Predestination?

By double predestination do you mean destining some to hell as well as some to heaven?
Can you have one without the other?

If there are only two places to go, and you're not destined for heaven, does that not necessarily make you destined for hell?

 

[Clare73]

How about, by the words palatable to your understanding which you have just expressed..... Is Colossians 1 an Important passage of Scripture that demonstrates who Jesus Christ is and What He has accomplished?

It does not state that he is God, but that he is the image of God, and his supremacy is plain.
Man is likewise made in the image of God (Ge 9:6).

 

[Grip Docility]

By double predestination do you mean destining some to hell as well as some to heaven?
Can you have one without the other?

If there are only two places to go, and you're not destined for heaven, does that not necessarily make you destined for hell?

That's the doctrine I've been seeing. It is not biblical. It was contrived 1500 years + after the apostolic scriptures had been completed. It is a result of the Protest of the Catholic Church and a result of a Theologian that Built upon John Calvin's doctrine of "Election", which misappropriated the word Election from the Jews... which required traditions such as omitting verses in Jude and such forth. Yes... That's the one.

It is a Manifested Lens that question's the Character of God's Love. Allow me to ask this. Does God Love the reprobate?

 

[Hammster]

It denotes all authority to Jesus Christ.

I thought you said Christ doesn’t have all authority.

 

[Grip Docility]

It does not state that he is God, but that he is the image of God, and his supremacy is plain.
Man is likewise made in the image of God (Ge 9:6).

It indeed denotes that He is GOD.

Let's see how.

Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God,​

the firstborn over all creation.[i]​

First born denotes "He who owns everything" by Hebrew tradition. "Birthright"

The Image verse is a specific nod to John writing that no-one has Seen the Father, yet to See Jesus was to have seen the Father, while, Jesus alone has actually "Seen" the invisible Image of God, because He is God. (The word was with God, The word was God and the Word ("Ma'amar" or "Dibbur," "Logos") became flesh.. "With God" denotes the Trinity. Was God... Denotes God the Son. The Word became flesh denotes the INCARNATION of God, God the Son, The Son of God, The Son of Man. In this very John 1 account, John specifies that No one has seen God. Because of the biblical rhythm and rhyme, , we can be certain that this verse in Colossians 1 is indeed nodding to John 1, visa vi... Post Incarnate Jesus Christ..... Post Ascension.

16 For everything was created by Him,​

in heaven and on earth,​

the visible and the invisible,​

whether thrones or dominions​

or rulers or authorities—​

all things have been created through Him and for Him.​

​

This is a very simple deduction. If everything was Created by Christ, in heaven and on earth, invisible and visible, than He is UNCREATED or as it can be said.... Pre-Eminant... Having no Beginning or End... Never having not exsisted. To say this differently, to Create everything in existence seen and unseen, knowing that God is uncreated... can lead to no other conclusion than this is about God the Son, The very Incarnation, TRUE Image, Presence of God.

Do you disagree with this?

 

[Grip Docility]

I thought you said Christ doesn’t have all authority.

This statement is fabrication. When in discussion it helps to read what the individual that you are speaking with is saying.

God has never stopped exercising His authority.

Having Authority and applying it are two different things. Link to refutation of fabricated debate claim

God Has exercised His authority off and on from Genesis to Jude…. But all Revelation related DAY OF THE LORD PROPHECIES haven’t occurred yet. This is obvious!

Jesus has authority from His Father. If He isn’t applying it, then He’s irresponsible and untrustworthy.