How Old Is The Earth

[trophy33]

How do you correct two different bibles? So let me ask you this, if I were to translate the US Constitution into Spanish and made errors while doing so how would you go about detecting and correcting those errors? I’m really at a loss of words right now. Your reasoning is completely baffling.

It seems you do not understand what the Septuagint is. Its not a bad translation of a masoretic text, if this is what you propose. Its a translation of a different textual family.

Its not "baffling", you just do not know enough about the Bible to have these conversations.

 

[trophy33]

I fail to understand how a YEC “modern era” can even exists for a theology that has existed nonstop for 3:500 years. The “merdern era” of YEC is still the exact same YEC that Moses wrote. Whats modern about it?

For example, geocentrism in the 1st century is one thing. Geocentrism in the 21st century, after we discovered the Earth is not the center of the universe, would be the "modern geocentrism" - its not based in the lack of knowledge like before, but on some kind of fanatism/conspiracy.

 

[trophy33]

Actually yes it does and it hasn’t changed once since the day it was written 3,500 years ago.

Again, you do not know enough to have such conversations. There are several textual families and they yield different number if you sum them "in the Ussher's way".

Get some good Bible dictionary. Or study these things a bit, before shooting posts about them. Your personal beliefs cannot make for it.

 

[trophy33]

I’d be willing to bet that you’re a libertarian. It’s the way your arguments skirt around the issue that gives it away.

A useless post. I do not care what you bet about me. Focus on the topic.

 

[trophy33]

Baptists for one.

Feel free to refer me to any French, German, Italian, Swiss, Dutch, Spanish, Norwegian... baptist church that teaches the YEC and was not influenced by some US material.

There were definitely YECs in Britain before the 19th century and definitely YECs after that. There isn't a watershed in the 19th century where YEC believers suddenly appear. And the idea of YEC was promoted in Britain before there was any USA. YEC is not an idea that originated in the USA, although many American believers are YECs.

Sad for Britain, if its in the same anti-intellectualism and anti-science as the USA.

Young Earth Creationism was the dominant view in the church at that time.

Not my point. Before science, church believed many wrong things about our physical reality. The modern, post-scientific YEC movement is from the USA, though. All main denominations around the world teach no conflict with the mainstream scientific theories.

I would propose to you that you can't easily open up the Bible and get Old Earth or any Ape-man theories. It's based on external pressures and ideas.

Sure, I do not claim that the Bible is scientific. Thats the claim the YEC makes and what makes them to err. Bible worked with many cultural ideas and limitations of the bronze age and incorporated them into the text.

This week was at the beginning of Creation according to the Lord Jesus Christ:
Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning of Creation He ‘made them male and female,’ (Matthew 19:4).

Its a referring to moral/theology of the text. The point there is divorce in the Jewish cultural context. The context is not science, the age of the earth or anything like that.

God himself speaking in the Ten Commandments clearly says that our seven day week is based on the seven days of creation.

If we want to be less fanatic and more precise - We have a 3,000 years old text saying that God said to Jews to keep the Sabbath (and now two textual versions follow - a) because of the creation week (Exodus), b) because of Egypt (Deuteronomium).

If you want to say that YEC is merely an American or a 19th Century idea then I have clearly shown to you...

No. I want to say that the modern YEC, similarly to modern Flat Earth-ism and most of other similar nonsense is from the USA and mostly found there.

 

[Semper-Fi]

19th century, Seventh Day Adventism


Do you know that the Septuagint and the Massoretic texts have different numbers when you sum their genealogies? By thousands of years different. Science can correct itself, but how can you correct two different Bibles?

The Chronological Debate From Adam to Abraham:​

In Defense of the Masoretic Text​

The Chronological Debate From Adam to Abraham: In Defense of the Masoretic Text

A study into the debate about the earliest biblical chronogenealogies, found in Genesis 5 and 11—for which early textual variants (Masoretic, Septuagint, Samaritan) differ dramatically. Can we know which is correct?

armstronginstitute.org

"A study into the debate about the earliest biblical chronogenealogies,
found in Genesis 5 and 11—for which early textual variants
(Masoretic, Septuagint, Samaritan) differ dramatically.

Can we know which is correct?

 

[trophy33]

The Chronological Debate From Adam to Abraham:​

In Defense of the Masoretic Text​

The Chronological Debate From Adam to Abraham: In Defense of the Masoretic Text

A study into the debate about the earliest biblical chronogenealogies, found in Genesis 5 and 11—for which early textual variants (Masoretic, Septuagint, Samaritan) differ dramatically. Can we know which is correct?

armstronginstitute.org

"A study into the debate about the earliest biblical chronogenealogies,
found in Genesis 5 and 11—for which early textual variants
(Masoretic, Septuagint, Samaritan) differ dramatically.

Can we know which is correct?

None. The universe is neither 6,000 nor 10,000 years old. Biblical genealogies cannot be used for such task. They had cultural meanings, not literal ones.

 

[Semper-Fi]

None. The universe is neither 6,000 nor 10,000 years old. Biblical genealogies cannot be used for such task. They had cultural meanings, not literal ones.

If you read the headline it was

From Adam to Abraham.​

The age of the earth or universe was not mentioned.

P.S. post #7 gets my vote.

 

[lismore]

Feel free to refer me to any French, German, Italian, Swiss, Dutch, Spanish, Norwegian... baptist church that teaches the YEC and was not influenced by some US material.

As I have stated at least five times that I'm in Great Britain I'm assuming you're being deliberately obtuse?
If you want a Spanish Baptist try ringing Santander.

Not my point. Before science, church believed many wrong things about our physical reality.

Wrong according to you!

The modern, post-scientific YEC movement is from the USA, though.

I have shown you that it isn't. Great Britain has a long and undeniable heritage of believers who taught young earth creationism going back centuries and I have shown you from the bible where this comes from. All you have done is give unsubstantiated assertions and goal post changes.

There are many UK based YEC organisations, for example the Creation Science Movement: About Us - CSM

Here's the profile of an English Creationist speaker whom I have heard talk, Dr David Rosevar from the University of Portsmouth, Chair of the European Creationist Congress. So you see it's far more than an American movement:

David Rosevear (biographical information) - Creation SuperLibrary - ChristianAnswers.Net

christiananswers.net

All main denominations around the world teach no conflict with the mainstream scientific theories.

As a former Roman Catholic I know that John Paul 2nd caved on the issue and came up with a fudge. The kind of fudge that empties Churches as the Catholic church is experiencing in this country. But I gave you the example of Baptists, I a member of a Baptist Church. We believe YEC, always have believed YEC and have no connection with the United States. Baptist Churches in the UK predate the United States by a hundred and seventy years. How could their beliefs come from a country that didn't yet exist?

I was also a member of a Pentecostal Church for several years, they had several YEC speakers, none from America. So there's another for you.

Bible worked with many cultural ideas and limitations of the bronze age and incorporated them into the text.

That's your opinion. We all have one. My opinion is that your opinion honks!

The context is not science, the age of the earth or anything like that.

Nevertheless the Lord Jesus Christ said that at the beginning of Creation God made them male and female (Matthew 19:4). This is a direct statement by the Lord Jesus which is not changed by the context. The Lord Jesus clearly believed YEC. You know better than Him now?

If we want to be less fanatic and more precise - We have a 3,000 years old text saying that God said to Jews to keep the Sabbath

Exodus 20:1 'And God spoke all these words'. So did God speak these words, yes or no?

Besides if the idea is 3,000 years old then it definitely did not come from the USA!

No. I want to say that the modern YEC, similarly to modern Flat Earth-ism and most of other similar nonsense is from the USA and mostly found there.

Well, you have been clearly proved wrong on that score. YEC is also found in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and has been for centuries. So I would counsel you to stop repeating that erroneous assertion. And bringing up 'flat earth-ism' is just being disingenuous. I have never met anyone who believed in a flat earth. Nor do I believe that. Maybe you believe aliens from the planet Zog built the great pyramid? God Bless You

 

[BNR32FAN]

It seems you do not understand what the Septuagint is. Its not a bad translation of a masoretic text, if this is what you propose. Its a translation of a different textual family.

Its not "baffling", you just do not know enough about the Bible to have these conversations.

No you’re wrong it’s a Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. If I had to take a guess I would say it’s probably the result of a textural criticism of the 70 translations that were composed by Jewish scholars at the order of Alexander the Great after he conquered Judea. It’s said that the scholars had to translate the entire Hebrew Bible from memory. What’s your explanation?

 

[BNR32FAN]

For example, geocentrism in the 1st century is one thing. Geocentrism in the 21st century, after we discovered the Earth is not the center of the universe, would be the "modern geocentrism" - its not based in the lack of knowledge like before, but on some kind of fanatism/conspiracy.

What does geocentrism have to do with the age of the earth?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Again, you do not know enough to have such conversations. There are several textual families and they yield different number if you sum them "in the Ussher's way".

Get some good Bible dictionary. Or study these things a bit, before shooting posts about them. Your personal beliefs cannot make for it.

I’ve been using concordances and lexicons for years. I’ve demonstrated this numerous times in this very thread when I was explaining the numerous variations of the word Yovm and in countless other posts here in CF. I also demonstrated how your “Hebrew scholar” that you posted from YouTube was a complete dishonest idiot in his translation of the creation account by refuting his errors over and over and over. Telling me that I don’t know enough just because I can refute your claims at every point is an oxymoron. Your whole defense is that the Bible didn’t come from God. Which is to actually say that you can’t actually defend your beliefs with the scriptures because your theology is scripturally indefensible. Thats why you have to say things like “God wasn’t telling us how long the creation process took” and “the genealogies weren’t intended to tell us how old the earth is” because you believe in a theology that you can’t defend. So don’t start making false accusations about me just because you lack the ability to defend your theology, your the one who chooses to believe in it.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Feel free to refer me to any French, German, Italian, Swiss, Dutch, Spanish, Norwegian... baptist church that teaches the YEC and was not influenced by some US material.


Sad for Britain, if its in the same anti-intellectualism and anti-science as the USA.


Not my point. Before science, church believed many wrong things about our physical reality. The modern, post-scientific YEC movement is from the USA, though. All main denominations around the world teach no conflict with the mainstream scientific theories.


Sure, I do not claim that the Bible is scientific. Thats the claim the YEC makes and what makes them to err. Bible worked with many cultural ideas and limitations of the bronze age and incorporated them into the text.


Its a referring to moral/theology of the text. The point there is divorce in the Jewish cultural context. The context is not science, the age of the earth or anything like that.


If we want to be less fanatic and more precise - We have a 3,000 years old text saying that God said to Jews to keep the Sabbath (and now two textual versions follow - a) because of the creation week (Exodus), b) because of Egypt (Deuteronomium).


No. I want to say that the modern YEC, similarly to modern Flat Earth-ism and most of other similar nonsense is from the USA and mostly found there.

Typical libertarian argument, create a false narrative then proceed to knock it down and pretend you’ve accomplished some sort of victory. YEC is an old tradition not a modern tradition it’s your theology that is new, brought about by people who question the accuracy of the Bible instead of the accuracy of science on matters that are not proven, cannot be observed or tested, and scientists know very little about. I’ve tried to explain to you how scientists can be wrong and your whole argument is basically summed up by saying “nuh uh” instead of actually explaining why I’m wrong. This is EXACTLY what I was talking about in my last post. You say “Oh Exodus isn’t talking about creation it’s talking about the sabbath” which is beyond ridiculous. All this is, is your inability to admit that you’re wrong. FOR GOD CREATED THE EARTH IN 6 DAYS!! That’s not talking about creation? God is quoting Genesis 2:3-4

”For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and made it holy.“
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20‬:‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

”By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.“
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Absolutely ridiculous

 

[Diamond72]

How do you correct two different bibles?

God confused language at Babylon for a reason. God’s decision to confuse language at Babel served multiple purposes: to prevent further rebellion, promote humility, and scatter humanity across the earth. It remains a powerful lesson about human pride and God’s sovereignty.

AI tries to overcome this confusion and unite people of different cultures.

 

[Diamond72]

YEC is an old tradition not a modern tradition

A old tradition in a young world. Where the ancient of days created everything in a week.

• The Bible describes God as “from everlasting to everlasting” (Psalm 90:2). This eternal nature implies that God exists beyond the constraints of time.
• When pondering what existed before the universe was created, we encounter an impossible roadblock. God’s existence transcends our finite understanding.

How or why would a infinite God create a finite world?

 

[Diamond72]

I also demonstrated how your “Hebrew scholar” that you posted from YouTube was a complete dishonest idiot

I tend to agree. They use amazing mental gymnastics to try and prove a hypotheses that can not be proven. Jesus repeatedly told people they are asking the wrong question. Jesus often challenged conventional thinking and encouraged deeper reflection.

 

[Diamond72]

How do you correct two different bibles?

You go back to see what Moses says about it. ONLY Jesus can add to what we receive from Moses.

 

[Platte]

Moses in Psalm 90 verse 2 tells us they were everlasting days. Does your dictionary define the word everlasting as a 24 hour day? I heard about an endless summer but never an endless day.

I Will Sing of His Love Forever
…1A prayer of Moses the man of God. Lord, You have been our dwelling place through all generations. 2Before the mountains were born or You brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting You are God.

I don’t see everlasting days in that scripture. I don’t even see the word “day” in that verse

 

[Diamond72]

I don’t see everlasting days in that scripture. I don’t even see the word “day” in that verse

verse four says:
4For in Your sight a thousand years are but a day that passes a

Moses is saying a day is 1,000 years.

 

[trophy33]

If you read the headline it was

From Adam to Abraham.​

The age of the earth or universe was not mentioned.

P.S. post #7 gets my vote.

Ok, so it cannot be used for the age of humanity. Humans are here hundreds of thousands if not millions of years, not 10,000 or 6,000 years.