Iran Launches Attack on Israel

[JosephZ]

I just said, Iran has promised to hit disproportionately even alluding to nuclear or radiological weapons use in their threat.

Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons, so there's no chance of an Iranian nuclear strike on Israel. Iran claims to have newly developed hypersonic missiles, so those are the most likely weapons to be used against Israel in the future.

any strike made against Iran that does not cripple their ability to mount a retaliation is a bad idea. a limited scope retaliation is just inviting a much more severe attack. Not responding just hands "victory" to Iran and encourages them to continue pressing Israel with their "ring of fire" along with future direct attacks from Iran.

Whatever Israel does it needs to hamstring Iran badly, so that they cannot counter.

Iran has proxies in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq. Hezbollah has more than 150,000 missiles alone. It would be impossible for Israel to launch an attack capable of crippling their ability to mount a retaliation without paying a very heavy price. Israel knows this, so don't expect a massive attack from Israel on Iranian soil.

 

[rjs330]

The Nazi's were based on Christian nationalism and were within the last hundred years. Please spare me the "they weren't real Christians/No true Scotsman" fallacy rebuttals.

No it wasn't. Hitler went into the churches and put himself as the one to be followed. He didn't want Christ worshipped. He wanted himself worshipped. He was no fan of Christianity. He thought of it as a crutch.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/04/20/hitler-hated-judaism-he-loathed-christianity-too/

If you ever visit Israel I've had Christians follow me around screaming at me. It's not some thing that happened in the distant past or a one in a million exception to the rule.

I don't think all Christians are antisemites, I was married to a Christian. However the evangelical strain of Christians, usually from the USA are not friendly to put it mildly.

Pardon me if I disagree. I'm beginning to wonder if you even understand who evangelicals are. It appears the majority of you issues are from Catholics. I know an aweful lot of Evangelicals and none of them have been Jew haters. We all support the Jews, and their right to their homeland. In Christ there is no Jew and no Greek. We are all part of God's people. As I said if someone attacked you for being a Jew me and all my Evangelical friends would be the first to defend you. And you should be glad for those who believe that people who bless God's chosen will be blessed. We don't do it TO be blessed. That's the wrong motive. We do it because God made it clear that he loves his people and because he finds them special so do we. God wouldn't bless any one who in their hearts hated the Jews inwardly but gave them some support outwardly. God doesn't just judge outward appearance but he judges the heart. And I'm letting you know that I support and bless you inwardly and outwardly. I and the others like me are not your enemy.

 

[rjs330]

It's not about a blessing for me.

It's because I see a plan of God's involved.
So many people yes so many Christians even believe that God is done with Israel, that they're chastised and have the wrath of God on them. But that's not what the Hebrew bible, or even the New Testament say. Both attest of Israel's eschatalogical regathering into their own land, and salvation.
and a lot of Christians don't see that many believe the Church "replaced" Israel. I don't. Paul wrote that the gentile Christians are "grafted in" to Israel as wild branches grafted into an olive tree., some of the natural branches were broken off in unbelief, but it is promised that they will be grafted back in. Paul explained that a partial blindness affected the Jews, until the "fullness of the Gentiles" are come in the Kingdom, and then God will lift their blindness and they will be saved.
It'll be a miracle.
Revelation has a remnant of Jews from 12 tribes (Dan and Ephraim are cut off and replaced by Joseph and Levi as tribes). Most of which are thought to be lost, at least as far as I'm aware, are there known Reubenites? Known Gadites? Issachar? Zebulun? As far as I know those tribes have been lost to the ages since the Assyrian conquest.
But Revelation has thousands of them being saved and marked by God. Imagine, people who are among the Jews, who are descendants of lost tribes, being identified (because God didn't lose them, we did). wouldn't that be a miracle? Thousands of years considered lost, and they're found.

Is that not worth praying for all by itself?

Amen brother, Amen. Excellently done!

 

[Chesterton]

No it wasn't. Hitler went into the churches and put himself as the one to be followed. He didn't want Christ worshipped. He wanted himself worshipped. He was no fan of Christianity. He thought of it as a crutch.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/04/20/hitler-hated-judaism-he-loathed-christianity-too/

Hitler explicitly said he wished Germany was an Islamic nation (so the people would be more warlike).

 

[Jamdoc]

I'm not being fed anything and I base my opinions on reliable information and using the two seeing orbs in the front of my head. If you do not know the definition of ethnic cleansing and genocide are you shouldn't be forming opinions on the subject. Unlike you I am from Israel and have been to Palestine. The ICJ and the UN have stated Israel is likely engaging in ethnic cleansing and could be meeting the legal requirements for genocide. I take give their opinions far more weight then yours or the IDF.

Is something not a genocide if the population grew before the genocide took place? What absurd logic. Most Jews left those countries during the formation of Israel to live there, hence the plummeting population. Do even bother to look this stuff up? I'm not blind to the antisemitism and violence against Jews in some of the Islamic world, but as I said it's not much different from the Christian world for most of history. Why do you guys get a pass and not them? Doesn't your own bible say our father is the devil, we're the synagogue of Satan, we killed Jesus. Why is it that Muslim scripture attacking us are evidence that they are all out to get us but your own scriptures attacking us need to be "taken in context/insert apologetics"? Have you ever heard of the term "double standard"?

The IDF has been caught lying and using very loose standards for what are considered enemy targets in the past. They are also on film laughing about razing Gaza and killing unarmed people, including the recent deliberate bombing of aid vehicles. Not to mention repeated murder of journalists. Why do you people never consider that maybe perhaps it's you that's misinformed? Arrogance? Indifference? Lack of critical thinking skills? No it's always everyone else and "fake news" or whatever nonsense.

The death toll, mostly women and children have been independently verified by both the U.S. and the pentagon, neither of which I believe are run by Hamas. The only groups challenging the death toll are Israel and it's Zionist supporters.

the "Synagogue of Satan" refers to people who claim to be Jews and are not (think Ethnically Jewish Atheists)
the bible talks about the redemption of Israel, and Jews, or physical descendants of Abraham in both the Old and New Testament. People need to take the whole counsel of God not isolated verses. Yes Paul calls them Enemies of the Gospel presently, but in the same passage speaks of their future redemption and how we as Christians should not hold them in contempt or hatred because God's promises to them are not forsaken, and they still have a redemptive future.

 

[Jamdoc]

Iran doesn't have nuclear weapons, so there's no chance of an Iranian nuclear strike on Israel. Iran claims to have newly developed hypersonic missiles, so those are the most likely weapons to be used against Israel in the future.


Iran has proxies in Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq. Hezbollah has more than 150,000 missiles alone. It would be impossible for Israel to launch an attack capable of crippling their ability to mount a retaliation without paying a very heavy price. Israel knows this, so don't expect a massive attack from Israel on Iranian soil.

Iran has enough enriched nuclear material for multiple nuclear bombs.
they just haven't demonstrated use of one yet.

 

[JosephZ]

Iran has enough enriched nuclear material for multiple nuclear bombs.
they just haven't demonstrated use of one yet.

That's why we don't have to worry about a nuclear strike on Israel if Israel decides to conduct a direct attack on Iran anytime in the immediate future.

 

[Jamdoc]

That's why we don't have to worry about a nuclear strike on Israel if Israel decides to conduct a direct attack on Iran anytime in the immediate future.

"use a weapon we've never used before" can still be radiological or nuclear. It's more likely to be an embarrassing failure to have their first nuclear device be something used in an actual attack, but.. wouldn't rule it out. Dirty bomb is more likely

 

[Lukaris]

Show where any significant "leftist" is rooting for hamas, or is this just your wild opinion?

This was before the Israeli response really caused major death and devastation.

You are being redirected...

Somehow, I just don’t think the Evangelical Christians are responsible for most anti Semitism in the US:

You are being redirected...

My links are to the Anti Defemation League & will link up. Why I am getting a process in place on the links, I don’t know.

 

[Pommer]

Netanyahu told the two foreign ministers that Israel will respond to the Iranian attack but will do it in a "thoughtful and calculated way," a source who attended the meeting told Axios.

This is statecraft speech for
”Oh we’re going to ‘do something‘ about this, yessireebob! Eventually, down-the-road, keeping-our-options-open, until it falls from the front pages or we get bored.”

 

[rjs330]

Hitler explicitly said he wished Germany was an Islamic nation (so the people would be more warlike).

He had thousands of Muslims fight for him as well. That just goes to prove the point that everyone has been making. There are Muslims that support their holy book and everything in it and those that do not. Because I'm sure there were Muslims that's were in the allied armies as well and as our Jewish friend stated there were Muslims that protected the Jews. And there were Muslims that did not.

 

[JosephZ]

He had thousands of Muslims fight for him as well.

Hitler may have had thousands, but there were millions of Muslims that fought against him.

 

[JosephZ]

Iran warns of shift in nuclear stance if Israel threatens atomic sites

Iran’s Revolutionary Guards said on Thursday that Tehran may “reconsider” its nuclear policy, which it has long insisted is purely peaceful but which western powers say has put it on the threshold of becoming a weapons state.

Regime hardliners have previously threatened that, during periods of heightened tensions with the west, Iran could withdraw from the non-proliferation treaty, which governs countries’ nuclear facilities.

Haq Talab warned Israel that any aggression against Iran’s facilities would be reciprocated at Israel’s nuclear weapon sites — which the Jewish state has never acknowledged possessing.

Israel has pledged to respond to last weekend’s Iranian attack, in which Tehran fired more than 300 missiles and drones.

The US-based Arms Control Association said in a paper this week that targeting Iranian nuclear sites “would be a reckless and irresponsible escalation that increases the risk of a wider regional war . . . and is more likely to push Tehran to decide that developing nuclear weapons is necessary to deter future attacks”.

Iran’s nuclear chief Mohammad Eslami told reporters on Wednesday that the republic could be still committed to the 2015 nuclear agreement if other signatories met their promises to ease sanctions on Iran. He said the head of the IAEA would “soon” visit Iran to “update” mutual agreements.

 

[Slibhin]

This was before the Israeli response really caused major death and devastation.

You are being redirected...

Somehow, I just don’t think the Evangelical Christians are responsible for most anti Semitism in the US:

You are being redirected...

My links are to the Anti Defemation League & will link up. Why I am getting a process in place on the links, I don’t know.

Anti-Defamation League staff decry ‘dishonest’ campaign against Israel critics

ADL has only doubled down on initiatives defending Israel and the policies of the Israeli government amid criticism and staff resignations

www.theguardian.com

I do not respect the ADL. They deny the Armenian genocide because of pressure from Turkey for one thing. Secondly the leader is a staunch Jewish Zionist who has had his own staff resign over his policies and statements with regards to Muslims and the Gaza conflict. They have also led initiatives to censor freedom of speech on colleges and force businesses to do business with Israel.

So Black Lives Matter are crazy idiots? Okay, fair enough.

That you hate a group designed to oppose police brutality against black people is telling. Regardless the Chicago BLM group pulled the post within the day and apologized, admitting it was an uninformed and idiotic thing to do. Do you think I don't look this stuff up? Do you bother to look things up?

Hitler explicitly said he wished Germany was an Islamic nation (so the people would be more warlike).

This is patently absurd. Hitler and the nazi's considered his Arab allies to be racially inferior and shared only a mutual distaste for Jews. The Arabs in Europe were also sterilized, tortured and sent to camps along with Jews, gays, gypsies and the handicapped. Do you ever look things up or just believe what you hear as long as it feels right? What Hitler said was he felt Christianity was too timid compared to Islamic fighters and wished Germany to be like them in this one regard. That does not means he wanted to be a Muslim or make Germany a Muslim nation. I have very little respect for people who misrepresent the facts or can't be bothered to look them up and repeat falsehoods.

No it wasn't. Hitler went into the churches and put himself as the one to be followed. He didn't want Christ worshipped. He wanted himself worshipped. He was no fan of Christianity. He thought of it as a crutch.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2019/04/20/hitler-hated-judaism-he-loathed-christianity-too/

Pardon me if I disagree. I'm beginning to wonder if you even understand who evangelicals are. It appears the majority of you issues are from Catholics. I know an aweful lot of Evangelicals and none of them have been Jew haters. We all support the Jews, and their right to their homeland. In Christ there is no Jew and no Greek. We are all part of God's people. As I said if someone attacked you for being a Jew me and all my Evangelical friends would be the first to defend you. And you should be glad for those who believe that people who bless God's chosen will be blessed. We don't do it TO be blessed. That's the wrong motive. We do it because God made it clear that he loves his people and because he finds them special so do we. God wouldn't bless any one who in their hearts hated the Jews inwardly but gave them some support outwardly. God doesn't just judge outward appearance but he judges the heart. And I'm letting you know that I support and bless you inwardly and outwardly. I and the others like me are not your enemy.

1. Hitler hated Catholicism, hated Atheism and didn't much care for denominational Christianity. He did not hate Christianity and supported the German Christian movement, a group of evangelical Christians who supported the nazi party. He admired Martin Luther (another vicious antisemite) and wanted the German Christian church to become the official church of Europe. You can debate that churches doctrines, I don't have a dog in that fight, but sit there and pretend the nazi's were not Christian nationalists. Google is a thing, look this stuff up sometime.

2. Do not try and tell me (or anyone) that you know their personal lived experience better then they do, or that they were wrong about events you were not present to observe. I lived a majority of my life in Ireland which is as Catholic as it gets outside Vatican City and I know the difference between them and evangelicals. As a matter of fact the Catholic church and the pope have specifically said Catholics should not try to convert Jews. There are plenty of Catholics on this forum, perhaps ask them.

The primary groups in Israel trying to convert Jews are the Jews for Jesus and the Messianic "Jews", both evangelical movements and certainly not Catholic. If you are anti-Catholic or just can't emotionally handle the antisemitism in your community, that's unfortunate but beyond my power or desire to try and rectify. To be clear I don't think all evangelical Christians are antisemites, but a lot are and denial of this fact doesn't help you.

the "Synagogue of Satan" refers to people who claim to be Jews and are not (think Ethnically Jewish Atheists)
the bible talks about the redemption of Israel, and Jews, or physical descendants of Abraham in both the Old and New Testament. People need to take the whole counsel of God not isolated verses. Yes Paul calls them Enemies of the Gospel presently, but in the same passage speaks of their future redemption and how we as Christians should not hold them in contempt or hatred because God's promises to them are not forsaken, and they still have a redemptive future.

I love how you completely ignored my point, so I'll ask again:

Why is it that you guys get to talk about context and draw distinctions when it comes to the doctrines in your own church, but Muslims aren't? Do you know what a double standard or hypocrisy is?

 

[Vanellus]

It would be good to investigate how many individuals Hamas recruits for canon fodder, how many civilians they have put in harms way for public relations also. I am not rooting for any side in this mess although I think the left roots for Hamas more so & treacherously than what they accuse supporters of Israel doing.

Palestinians are "cannon fodder" for the IDF simply by living in the rapidly decreasing area of Gaza that hasn't been destroyed. It's inappropriate to treat this situation where so many have been killed as a left/right issue.

 

[Vanellus]

Does the wish of people to see Iran suffer extend to a big increase in petrol prices?

 

[Desk trauma]

Does the wish of people to see Iran suffer extend to a big increase in petrol prices?

That would clearly be the president’s fault .

 

[Jamdoc]

I love how you completely ignored my point, so I'll ask again:

Why is it that you guys get to talk about context and draw distinctions when it comes to the doctrines in your own church, but Muslims aren't? Do you know what a double standard or hypocrisy is?

Because we're judging the body of beliefs rather than individual's adherence to them. If someone doesn't believe their Holy books then you are going to have to go person to person because what they believe is not their religion but their own personal code.

If someone understands and believes the bible, and reads it, cover to cover and understands and believes what it says, the Christian bible points to an eschatological redemption of the Jews, so we see the Jewish people as important because God's plan says they will still be there and redeemed. We support the Jews and support Israel not for ourselves, but because God has declared their redemption and we believe that. We do it for God's sake, even when you say we're "the problem" rather than people shooting missiles at you.

If someone understands and believes the Qur'an and the Hadiths, then they believe Jews have been forsaken by God for violating His commandments. Which to be fair, both Muslims and Christians can see the history of the Jews as one of Chastisement and Scourging by the Lord, and even you looking at your own Tanakh must be able to see it. Passages talk about your very name being used as an insult and a negative proverb. Is that not the last 2000 years of persecution and marginalization for you? However the difference is Christians who read and understand the full bible, see that this is Chastisement, not forsaking, God will never utterly forsake His promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, there is promised redemption in our book. But for Islam their traditions involve the slaughter of the Jews in the last days. Any Muslim who fully reads, understands, and believes their scriptures is therefore very dangerous.

Now sure, you are right, many Muslims do not fully believe their own scriptures or have not fully read them all and just listened to radical clerics who do, or moderate clerics who don't.
and within Christianity there are many self proclaiming Christians who have not read the bible, or don't believe it. Anyone claiming to be a "Christian Nationalist" much less a "Christian Ethnonationalist" either has not read their bible, or does not believe it, and only gets exposed to radical teachers who take verses out of context in order to suit their wicked agenda.
The Christian bible is utterly incompatible with white supremacy for one.

But there's not a lot you can really do about religious people who do not even believe their own scriptures, they're a lost cause. You might be able to straighten out some of the ones who are just plain ignorant and don't know those verses are out of context and that the overall book promises the redemption of Jews so no Jesus was not some super-hitler Anti-jew the way they may see them. Anyone with that belief does not know Jesus. Jesus is Himself, a Jew.
you can't be the "Lion of the tribe of Judah" otherwise.


that said.. I don't know if I'd want to "straighten out" any Muslims who are just ignorant about their own scriptures and teach them to be "true Muslims"...
I'd want to teach them Jesus instead.

 

[Chesterton]

That you hate a group designed to oppose police brutality against black people is telling.

At the end of this post to me you say "I have very little respect for people who misrepresent the facts...", so please point out where I said I hate BLM.

Regardless the Chicago BLM group pulled the post within the day and apologized, admitting it was an uninformed and idiotic thing to do. Do you think I don't look this stuff up? Do you bother to look things up?

Everyone knows they pulled it. It was because of public outrage. But obviously they meant it or they wouldn't have done it in the first place. But I'm curious - I don't recall them saying it was "uniformed". What was uninformed about it? How was it uninformed?

This is patently absurd. Hitler and the nazi's considered his Arab allies to be racially inferior and shared only a mutual distaste for Jews.

A distaste? Wow I'd hate to think what the Nazi's would have done if they'd actually hated the Jews.

The Arabs in Europe were also sterilized,...

Some "half-breeds" were sterilized, but the Nazis wanted to sterilize all half-breeds, so it was not particular to Arabs.

...tortured and sent to camps along with Jews, gays, gypsies and the handicapped. Do you ever look things up or just believe what you hear as long as it feels right? What Hitler said was he felt Christianity was too timid compared to Islamic fighters and wished Germany to be like them in this one regard.

There were some Arabs in prisons camps, but not for being Arab.

In 1936, the Nazi Office of Racial Politics, in response to a question from the German Foreign Ministry, classified non-Jewish Turks as Europeans, but "left unanswered the question of how to think about the obviously non-European Arabs, Persians, and Muslims."[88] Later that year, ahead of the Summer Olympic Games in Berlin, the Nazis responded to questions from the Egyptians by saying that the Nuremberg racial laws did not apply to them.​

Racial policy of Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

Also, see Why Hitler Wished He Was Muslim - The Wall Street Journal

And it sounds like you're already familiar with the Wiki page, but I'll link it just in case. The opening sections discuss Hitler and Himmler's feelings toward Islam. Relations between Nazi Germany and the Arab world - Wikipedia

That does not means he wanted to be a Muslim or make Germany a Muslim nation. I have very little respect for people who misrepresent the facts or can't be bothered to look them up and repeat falsehoods.

Again, your last sentence about misrepresenting facts immediately follows another instance of you misrepresenting facts. I did not say Hitler wanted to make Germany a Muslim nation.

 

[Vanellus]

That would clearly be the president’s fault .

This dodges the question but I take it to mean that condemning Iran doesn't go so far as a willingness to pay more for petrol.