Iran Launches Attack on Israel

[JosephZ]

Israel Weighs Response to Iran Attack, With Each Choice a Risk

Israel does not want Iran to conclude that it can now attack Israeli territory in response to an Israeli strike on Iranian interests in a third country, some of the officials said, summarizing the internal Israeli debate. But, they added, Israel also does not want and cannot afford a major conflict with Iran while still fighting a war in Gaza and skirmishing with Iranian proxies along its borders.

The members of Israel’s small but fractious war cabinet, the officials said, are considering options big enough to send a clear message to Iran that such attacks will not go unanswered, but not so big as to spark a major escalation.

The officials described the following options, and their downsides, from which the Israeli leaders are choosing a response:

Conduct an aggressive strike on an Iranian target, such as an Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps base, in a country other than Iran like Syria. (The drawback is that it lacks the symmetry of responding to a direct attack on Israel with a direct attack on Iran.)

Strike a mostly symbolic target inside Iran. (Such a move would likely require U.S. consultation and would risk angering the Americans who have advised against such a strike.)

Conduct a cyberattack on Iran’s infrastructure. (Doing so could expose Israel’s cyber capabilities prematurely and would not be an in-kind response to a major airstrike.)

Accelerate small attacks inside Iran, including targeted assassinations, carried out by the Mossad. (Israel does not claim responsibility for such attacks, so they fail to match the public nature of Iran’s strike.)

After three days of meetings, the cabinet has yet to decide on a response. On Tuesday, the five-member cabinet met with security officials for two hours of consultations, according to one official, and they were expected to convene again on Wednesday.

 

[Jamdoc]

Israel Weighs Response to Iran Attack, With Each Choice a Risk

Israel does not want Iran to conclude that it can now attack Israeli territory in response to an Israeli strike on Iranian interests in a third country, some of the officials said, summarizing the internal Israeli debate. But, they added, Israel also does not want and cannot afford a major conflict with Iran while still fighting a war in Gaza and skirmishing with Iranian proxies along its borders.

The members of Israel’s small but fractious war cabinet, the officials said, are considering options big enough to send a clear message to Iran that such attacks will not go unanswered, but not so big as to spark a major escalation.

The officials described the following options, and their downsides, from which the Israeli leaders are choosing a response:

Conduct an aggressive strike on an Iranian target, such as an Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps base, in a country other than Iran like Syria. (The drawback is that it lacks the symmetry of responding to a direct attack on Israel with a direct attack on Iran.)

Strike a mostly symbolic target inside Iran. (Such a move would likely require U.S. consultation and would risk angering the Americans who have advised against such a strike.)

Conduct a cyberattack on Iran’s infrastructure. (Doing so could expose Israel’s cyber capabilities prematurely and would not be an in-kind response to a major airstrike.)

Accelerate small attacks inside Iran, including targeted assassinations, carried out by the Mossad. (Israel does not claim responsibility for such attacks, so they fail to match the public nature of Iran’s strike.)

After three days of meetings, the cabinet has yet to decide on a response. On Tuesday, the five-member cabinet met with security officials for two hours of consultations, according to one official, and they were expected to convene again on Wednesday.

Considering Iran has threatened to counter with a weapon they've never used before, I would take that threat as nuclear and attack in such a way that they are unable to retaliate, hitting their nuclear sites, and possibly EMP'ing parts of the country with large concentrations of IRGC installations.

if they do a proportional strike Iran has already promised to attack disproportionately., and they have also said if Israel attacks they attack US troops in Iraq and Syria, which they've already done anyway, which is why Biden's limp wristedness makes no sense, Iran is already attacking our troops and already promising to attack us more even if we don't participate. It'd be better to aid Israel and help make it so that Iran can't really retaliate rather than doing some pinprick demonstration and then have Iran detonate a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon in retaliation. Whatever they do needs to be disarming.

 

[Lukaris]

Quote:

“The Nazi's were based on Christian nationalism”

NO!

 

[Slibhin]

Yes that is his current role in Christianity as well, the accuser, and the adversary.

But what does the verse I quoted from Zechariah 12 say in Hebrew then, if it does not refer to the house of David and inhabitants of Jerusalem mourning when they see the one they pierced?

and I'm on this topic because you see the Christians, who pray for your salvation, and believe in your people's redemption (as you are specifying Evangelicals), are the enemies, while the people who want your extinction, are somehow seen as allies and "not that bad"

I never said evangelicals were my enemies nor Muslims were my allies. I highly dislike being misquoted.

 

[Jamdoc]

I never said evangelicals were my enemies nor Muslims were my allies. I highly dislike being misquoted.

You've been demonizing Evangelical Christians as "the problem" for pages of this thread now.

 

[Vanellus]

No, it seems the US probably looks the other way in that Israel is understood as being purely defensive whereas their enemies want to annihilate them ( which is Iran’s official policy).

Yes the last thing Israel wants to do is kill tens of thousands of non combatant Palestinians but those pesky Hamas force them to it by sneakily living in the same cramped few acres that haven't been completely blown up - it couldn't be that Israel actually wants to kill lots of Palestinians

Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says

Israel is intentionally starving Palestinians and should be held accountable for war crimes – and genocide, according to the UN’s leading expert on the right to food.

Hunger and severe malnutrition are widespread in the Gaza Strip, where about 2.2 million Palestinians are facing severe shortages resulting from Israel destroying food supplies and severely restricting the flow of food, medicines and other humanitarian supplies. Aid trucks and Palestinians waiting for humanitarian relief have come under Israeli fire.

“There is no reason to intentionally block the passage of humanitarian aid or intentionally obliterate small-scale fishing vessels, greenhouses and orchards in Gaza – other than to deny people access to food,” Michael Fakhri, the UN special rapporteur on the right to food, told the Guardian.

The brutality and inhumanity of Israel’s assault on Gaza is no surprise. It’s just what was promised | Owen Jones

In South Africa’s document setting out its genocide case against Israel over the Gaza war, there are nine pages dedicated to genocidal incitement. It notes that Benjamin Netanyahu twice “invoked the Biblical story of the total destruction of Amalek”, declaring: “You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible. And we do remember.” A later passage in the Bible leaves no doubt for interpretation: “Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.” This was no throwaway comment. Consider the unprecedented slaughter of Palestinian children – or “infants and sucklings” – and note that six days after invoking Amalek in a national address, Netanyahu referred to it again in a letter to army soldiers and officers.

 

[JosephZ]

Considering Iran has threatened to counter with a weapon they've never used before, I would take that threat as nuclear and attack in such a way that they are unable to retaliate, hitting their nuclear sites, and possibly EMP'ing parts of the country with large concentrations of IRGC installations.

if they do a proportional strike Iran has already promised to attack disproportionately... It'd be better to aid Israel and help make it so that Iran can't really retaliate rather than doing some pinprick demonstration and then have Iran detonate a dirty bomb or nuclear weapon in retaliation. Whatever they do needs to be disarming.

Iran's attack on Israel wasn't intended to cause a massive amount of damage or result in a high number of casualties; it was to demonstrate it could hit Israel if, when, and where it wanted to. Iran was able to strike both Nevatim and Ramon air bases despite Israel having the most sophisticated anti-missile defense system in the world and the assistance of several other countries providing air support, including the US and the UK. The weapons Iran used on Sunday were also not their most advanced. It's highly unlikely that Israel's response to Iran will be too extreme, as this would result in Iran launching an even bigger attack than Sunday's in return, which, unlike that attack, would result in a significant amount of damage and have the potential for a high number of Israeli casualties.

 

[JosephZ]

Israel considered striking Iran on Monday but decided to wait, officials say

Israel has vowed to respond to Iran's unprecedented missile and drone attack. The Biden administration has warned that an escalation with Iran wouldn't serve U.S. or Israeli interests and urged Israel to "be careful" with any retaliation, U.S. officials said.

The U.S. is concerned that continued counterattacks could trigger wider regional escalation.

The Israeli war cabinet on Monday considered giving the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) the go-ahead for a strike against Iran. But later that night, a decision was made not to go through with it "for operational reasons," according to two Israeli officials.

Netanyahu met on Wednesday with the foreign ministers of the U.K. and Germany, who visited Israel ahead of the G7 summit in Italy.

Netanyahu told the two foreign ministers that Israel will respond to the Iranian attack but will do it in a "thoughtful and calculated way," a source who attended the meeting told Axios.

 

[Slibhin]

You've been demonizing Evangelical Christians as "the problem" for pages of this thread now.

Well, most of you demonize Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, Liberals and the LGBT. Doesn't feel nice does it? Perhaps you'll reflect on this and grow as a human being.

Regardless I specifically said it's (mostly) American Evangelicals, nor have I demonized them. They are part of the problem in so far as they promote violence in the middle east by electing and pushing for aggressive policies in Israel, and this in turn causes bloodshed that they are indifferent to. It is the American evangelical right practically cheering on the genocide in gaza currently and pushing for no real solution, other then removing Palestine from existence. This in turn ensures that violence continues with no resolution in sight. Ultimately however the problem is people in power, namely Netanyahu and his gaggle of extremist thugs who want to take Palestine. This along with the aid of western governments who prop Israel up and shields them from consequences.

 

[Lukaris]

Yes the last thing Israel wants to do is kill tens of thousands of non combatant Palestinians but those pesky Hamas force them to it by sneakily living in the same cramped few acres that haven't been completely blown up - it couldn't be that Israel actually wants to kill lots of Palestinians

Israel is deliberately starving Palestinians, UN rights expert says

The brutality and inhumanity of Israel’s assault on Gaza is no surprise. It’s just what was promised | Owen Jones

It would be good to investigate how many individuals Hamas recruits for canon fodder, how many civilians they have put in harms way for public relations also. I am not rooting for any side in this mess although I think the left roots for Hamas more so & treacherously than what they accuse supporters of Israel doing.

 

[Slibhin]

It would be good to investigate how many individuals Hamas recruits for canon fodder, how many civilians they have put in harms way for public relations also. I am not rooting for any side in this mess although I think the left roots for Hamas more so & treacherously than what they accuse supporters of Israel doing.

Show where any significant "leftist" is rooting for hamas, or is this just your wild opinion?

 

[Chesterton]

Show where any significant "leftist" is rooting for hamas, or is this just your wild opinion?

 

[Jamdoc]

Well, most of you demonize Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, Liberals and the LGBT. Doesn't feel nice does it? Perhaps you'll reflect on this and grow as a human being.

Arabs no, I don't consider any ethnicity as particularly bad. We're all sinners however.
Muslims not the individuals per say as their adherence to the belief system varies person to person, but Islam is demonic as a belief system itself, and those who do adhere to its fundamentalist principles are dangerous.
LGBT is an abomination, it is sin, it cannot be accepted as "okay", that's God's decision on that, not mine. That said we are all sinners, and LGBT is not some unforgivable supersin the way some may treat it. It's the same as theft or lying or any other sin against God that we may do.

Regardless I specifically said it's (mostly) American Evangelicals, nor have I demonized them. They are part of the problem in so far as they promote violence in the middle east by electing and pushing for aggressive policies in Israel, and this in turn causes bloodshed that they are indifferent to. It is the American evangelical right practically cheering on the genocide in gaza currently and pushing for no real solution, other then removing Palestine from existence. This in turn ensures that violence continues with no resolution in sight. Ultimately however the problem is people in power, namely Netanyahu and his gaggle of extremist thugs who want to take Palestine. This along with the aid of western governments who prop Israel up and shields them from consequences.

It isn't a genocide, compare the Muslim population in Israel and Gaza and Judea and Samaria in 1948 vs now, they exploded.
Now compare the Jewish population of Muslim majority countries in the middle east historically vs now, they've plummeted. It's Jews who are being driven out and killed by Muslims to the point of Genocide, not the other way around. You can point out incidents prior to 1948 where Muslims helped Jews but after the foundation of the state of Israel, things changed.

With regards to Gaza your information is being fed by Hamas. Hamas controls the government in Gaza, including the Health ministry giving casualty figures. They report dead Hamas fighters as civilian casualties because they are not part of a recognized military. Remember when Hamas reported that Israel had used a missile on a hospital and killed 500 people and then it turned out it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket and it only hit the hospital parking lot which was empty?
Again, Taqiyya, be mindful of it.

 

[Slibhin]

View attachment 346049

I asked who supported Hamas, not who was supporting Palestine. I presume you can tell the difference even if the IDF cannot.

 

[Jamdoc]

Iran's attack on Israel wasn't intended to cause a massive amount of damage or result in a high number of casualties; it was to demonstrate it could hit Israel if, when, and where it wanted to. Iran was able to strike both Nevatim and Ramon air bases despite Israel having the most sophisticated anti-missile defense system in the world and the assistance of several other countries providing air support, including the US and the UK. The weapons Iran used on Sunday were also not their most advanced. It's highly unlikely that Israel's response to Iran will be too extreme, as this would result in Iran launching an even bigger attack than Sunday's in return, which, unlike that attack, would result in a significant amount of damage and have the potential for a high number of Israeli casualties.

as I just said, Iran has promised to hit disproportionately even alluding to nuclear or radiological weapons use in their threat.

any strike made against Iran that does not cripple their ability to mount a retaliation is a bad idea. a limited scope retaliation is just inviting a much more severe attack. Not responding just hands "victory" to Iran and encourages them to continue pressing Israel with their "ring of fire" along with future direct attacks from Iran.

Whatever Israel does it needs to hamstring Iran badly, so that they cannot counter.
and I think we should help them with that rather than encourage Israel's enemies by abandoning them.

 

[Jamdoc]

I asked who supported Hamas, not who was supporting Palestine. I presume you can tell the difference even if the IDF cannot.

Uh.. the parachute imagery is a callback to the October 7th attacks, where Hamas were using paragliders to get over the border fence.

 

[Slibhin]

Arabs no, I don't consider any ethnicity as particularly bad. We're all sinners however.
Muslims not the individuals per say as their adherence to the belief system varies person to person, but Islam is demonic as a belief system itself, and those who do adhere to its fundamentalist principles are dangerous.
LGBT is an abomination, it is sin, it cannot be accepted as "okay", that's God's decision on that, not mine. That said we are all sinners, and LGBT is not some unforgivable supersin the way some may treat it. It's the same as theft or lying or any other sin against God that we may do.

It isn't a genocide, compare the Muslim population in Israel and Gaza and Judea and Samaria in 1948 vs now, they exploded.
Now compare the Jewish population of Muslim majority countries in the middle east historically vs now, they've plummeted. It's Jews who are being driven out and killed by Muslims to the point of Genocide, not the other way around. You can point out incidents prior to 1948 where Muslims helped Jews but after the foundation of the state of Israel, things changed.

With regards to Gaza your information is being fed by Hamas. Hamas controls the government in Gaza, including the Health ministry giving casualty figures. They report dead Hamas fighters as civilian casualties because they are not part of a recognized military. Remember when Hamas reported that Israel had used a missile on a hospital and killed 500 people and then it turned out it was a Palestinian Islamic Jihad rocket and it only hit the hospital parking lot which was empty?
Again, Taqiyya, be mindful of it.

I'm not being fed anything and I base my opinions on reliable information and using the two seeing orbs in the front of my head. If you do not know the definition of ethnic cleansing and genocide are you shouldn't be forming opinions on the subject. Unlike you I am from Israel and have been to Palestine. The ICJ and the UN have stated Israel is likely engaging in ethnic cleansing and could be meeting the legal requirements for genocide. I take give their opinions far more weight then yours or the IDF.

Is something not a genocide if the population grew before the genocide took place? What absurd logic. Most Jews left those countries during the formation of Israel to live there, hence the plummeting population. Do even bother to look this stuff up? I'm not blind to the antisemitism and violence against Jews in some of the Islamic world, but as I said it's not much different from the Christian world for most of history. Why do you guys get a pass and not them? Doesn't your own bible say our father is the devil, we're the synagogue of Satan, we killed Jesus. Why is it that Muslim scripture attacking us are evidence that they are all out to get us but your own scriptures attacking us need to be "taken in context/insert apologetics"? Have you ever heard of the term "double standard"?

The IDF has been caught lying and using very loose standards for what are considered enemy targets in the past. They are also on film laughing about razing Gaza and killing unarmed people, including the recent deliberate bombing of aid vehicles. Not to mention repeated murder of journalists. Why do you people never consider that maybe perhaps it's you that's misinformed? Arrogance? Indifference? Lack of critical thinking skills? No it's always everyone else and "fake news" or whatever nonsense.

The death toll, mostly women and children have been independently verified by both the U.S. and the pentagon, neither of which I believe are run by Hamas. The only groups challenging the death toll are Israel and it's Zionist supporters.

 

[Slibhin]

Uh.. the parachute imagery is a callback to the October 7th attacks, where Hamas were using paragliders to get over the border fence.

I'm not interested in some idiot's meme graphic. I asked what SIGNIFICANT leftist groups are supporting hamas. If I look on the internet hard enough I can find a few crazies who'll support anything. Would you like me to link you to Christian groups who support or deny the holocaust? Does that make it representative? Of course not.

 

[Chesterton]

I'm not interested in some idiot's meme graphic. I asked what SIGNIFICANT leftist groups are supporting hamas. If I look on the internet hard enough I can find a few crazies who'll support anything. Would you like me to link you to Christian groups who support or deny the holocaust? Does that make it representative? Of course not.

So Black Lives Matter are crazy idiots? Okay, fair enough.

 

[rjs330]

Okay so the reliance is on "Muslims" not actually believing their sacred texts and traditions.
I think that's a bad point to start on "they don't really believe what it says"

Some don't and that's obvious. Many do and that's obvious too. I was merely pointing out that she was correct in saying not all Muslims interpret their book the same or adhere to it the same. You are absolutely correct in what their book says. It's a violent religion and always has been. It hasn't stopped.