2 Cor 3:6-11 Affirms the Law of God, and the New Covenant where it is written on the heart

[BobRyan]

OK, so you cannot say you fully obey that list

No Bible writer says "I am sinless"
But in Rom 8:4-10 we are told that it is only the lost person "That does not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed can they"

and do not commit sin, but you also say believers are saved from their sin not in their sin. Do you not see a contradiction there?

No contradiction.

The fact that all students can get an A on the test does not mean all students will and it does not mean that it was not possible to get an A or that it is a mistake to try and get an A.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

The text of Col 2 is clear - it is about the "shadow Sabbaths" -- which are the ones that are based in animal sacrifice.

Ex 20:8-11 the Sabbath commandment has no animal sacrifice.
Ex 20:11 points directly to Gen 2:2-3 at creation week - where once again there was no animal sacrifice.

The weekly Sabbath "made for mankind" not "Sabbath made just for Jews" Mark 2:27.

Is 66:23 points to the weekly Sabbath kept for all eternity after the cross , in the New Earth. Which directly addressed your "Sabbath ended" comment.

I don't see how that is even a little bit confusing.

Is 66:23 And it shall come to pass​

That from one New Moon to another,​

And from one Sabbath to another,​

All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.​

two creation events will have existed in Rev 21 so that in that New Earth we have two cycles for regular worship

Why do you think Isaiah 66:23 means that the weekly sabbath will be kept for all eternity after the cross

Because the New Heaven and New Earth of Isaiah 66:22-23 will exist for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth.

. Can you please highlight that portion of the verse?

​

22 “For just as the new heavens and the new earth,
Which I make, will endure before Me,” declares the Lord,
“So will your descendants and your name endure.
23 And it shall be from new moon to new moon
And from Sabbath to Sabbath,
All mankind will come to bow down before Me,” says the Lord.

 

[BobRyan]

Not at all. God's two greatest commandments ought to be our primary focus, do you not agree?

Certainly.

As Jesus said in Matt 22 where He is affirming the Law of Moses in Deut 6:5 and Lev 19:28 without declaring that the commandment to not take God's name in vain is deleted.

In fact His statement was "ALL the LAW AND the Prophets are firmly established" on that unshakable foundation.

Have you yet mastered either one or both of them?

Are they to be deleted if even one person fails to keeping them , even once? Is that a Bible teaching... even a little?

1 John 2:1 "these things I write to you that you sin NOT. And if anyone sins we have an Advocate with the Father"

instead of

"these things I write to you that you sin NOT. And if anyone sins well then cross off whatever commandment they failed to have 100% compliance with - -- no longer teach that part of God's Word".

How quickly would "Love your neighbor as yourself" crash and burn into nothing were that the rule taught in scripture. Thankfully no scripture makes any such case as "only obey that part of God's Word where everyone is 100% compliant".

 

[simplefaith]

No Bible writer says "I am sinless"
But in Rom 8:4-10 we are told that it is only the lost person "That does not submit to the Law of God - neither indeed can they"

No contradiction.

The fact that all students can get an A on the test does not mean all students will and it does not mean that it was not possible to get an A.

According to Paul, we either follow after the Holy Spirit or the ''law/written code'' Many back the wrong horse so to speak. Only the Holy Spirit can lead believers into spiritual truth. The rational mind cannot. BTW, no one can get an A in relation to faultlessly obeying every law placed within believers

 

[BobRyan]

We don't have to talk about all the commandments. I do think it's good to talk about the Commandments that we keep to show our love for God.

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" 1 John 14:15
"THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
God spoke the TEN "and added no more" Deut 5:22

And Paul notes "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

I really like how often your posts set up this response as the slam dunk

 

[BobRyan]

According to Paul, we either follow after the Holy Spirit or the ''law/written code''

Paul says "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),"

Instead of "Honor your father and mother is part of the written code so you can ignore it"

. Only the Holy Spirit can lead believers into spiritual truth.

All sides agree on that one.

no one can get an A in relation to faultlessly obeying every law placed within believers

Paul says this of the unbelievers in Rom 8 - they "do NOT submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

 

[simplefaith]

Paul says "Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 Honor your father and mother (which is the first commandment with a promise),"

Instead of "Honor your father and mother is part of the written code so you can ignore it"


All sides agree on that one.

Paul says this of the unbelievers in Rom 8 - they "do NOT submit to the Law of God - neither indeed CAN they"

In relation to your straight A. When you achieve sinless perfection, please let me know.
In regard to honour your father and mother. Best achieved by dying to what once bound/law and instead following after the Holy Spirit.

 

[BobRyan]

In relation to your straight A. When you achieve sinless perfection, please let me know.

First you have to post as if you have read the post and understand the argument to be that God never said "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word".

I see that as step 1.

In regard to honour your father and mother. Best achieved by dying to what once bound/law

Back to the point - no amount of parsing gets away from the fact that nothing in OT or NT never teaches "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word"

and instead following after the Holy Spirit.

Following after the Holy Spirit never meant "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word".

No such commandment-negated-IF... teaching is found in all of scripture.

 

[simplefaith]

First you have to post as if you have read the post and understand the argument to be that God never said "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word".

I see that as step 1.

Back to the point - no amount of parsing gets away from the fact that nothing in OT or NT never teaches "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word"

Following after the Holy Spirit never meant "only admit to the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself if you perfectly keep it - otherwise ignore that part of My word".

No such commandment-negated-IF... teaching is found in all of scripture.

You need to understand the outworking of the core foundation upon which the NC stands. You cannot ignore what is in your most inward parts. However, living a life in relation to that is not achieved by looking to it, or concentrating on it. Those who backed the wrong horse sadly, cannot see it though

 

[Leaf473]

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" 1 John 14:15
"THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
God spoke the TEN "and added no more" Deut 5:22

And Paul notes "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

I really like how often your posts set up this response as the slam dunk

I'm glad you see it as a slam dunk

If you look back through the thread for the context of my post, you'll come to this

I see it differently. The entire law of God can be used to gain wisdom.

The Lord’s covenant is sure, making wise the simple. Psalm 19:7

God's perfect law is the Ten Commandments. It would be impossible for God to write something with His own finger that was not perfect.

Now, in the context of my discussion with SB and with reference to Psalm 19:7, if you are saying that only the Ten Commandments are perfect, or that only the Ten Commandments are useful for wisdom, then I disagree.

Bible Gateway passage: Psalm 19:7 - New King James Version

The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the Lord is sure, making wise the simple;

www.biblegateway.com

If you are saying that there are only 10 Commandments ever, then I disagree with that, as well. I suspect that "and added no more" refers to adding no more to the 10, not that there were only ever going to be 10 Commandments.

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 27:34 - New King James Version

These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses for the children of Israel on Mount Sinai.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Bob S]

And your subjective comment here adds what to the conversation? Animosity due to the insult.
And just so you are aware, no one said just the ten. If they do or did they need to get back to the Book

I believe you are forgetting all those who tell us it is the ten commandments that are written on our hearts. I refute those statements as per the Apostle Paul. Paul was very explicit when he wrote 2Cor3:6-12. Jews are no longer under the ministry of death. Gentiles were never subject to them.

 

[BobRyan]

We don't have to talk about all the commandments. I do think it's good to talk about the Commandments that we keep to show our love for God.

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" 1 John 14:15
"THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
God spoke the TEN "and added no more" Deut 5:22

And Paul notes "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

I really like how often your posts set up this response as the slam dunk

I'm glad you see it as a slam dunk

I'm starting to view it as "team work".

Now, in the context of my discussion with SB and with reference to Psalm 19:7, if you are saying that only the Ten Commandments are perfect

I am still looking for where SB said "only the Ten commandments are perfect" or only the ten are useful etc.

 

[BobRyan]

If you are saying that there are only 10 Commandments ever, then I disagree with that, as well.

Try reading the actual text instead of positioning it as "if you are saying".

The reference is Deut 5:22

I suspect that "and added no more" refers to adding no more to the 10

Take time to actually read the Bible. It says He only spoke the Ten to all the people.

 

[BobRyan]

I believe you are forgetting all those who tell us it is the ten commandments that are written on our hearts. I refute those statements as per the Apostle Paul.

Paul did not help you much when HE said "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN for NT saints.

Were you hoping that your suggestions for 2 Cor 3 - cancelled the book of Ephesians?

Take a look at page one of this thread.

"Do not take God's name in vain" is in the Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant and it is also in the "ministry of death" since "SIN IS transgression of the LAW" even in the NT where "honor your father and mother is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2

 

[Cornelius8L]

true.

True. I fact preaching the Gospel anywhere and everywhere is not breaking the Sabbath commandment

True and the NT maintains that even in the NT age "Sin IS transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4 where "The first commandment with a promise" in that still valid TEN Commandment unit - is "Honor your father and mother" Eph 6:2

nope.

made or mankind - not "mankind MADE" for the Sabbath -- speaks of the making of BOTH in Gen 1-2:3

Gen 2:2-3 says that God's act of resting on the 7th day of creation week established the sanctity and binding nature of the Sabbath for humans. Ex 20:11 says that as well 'in legal code'.

So why would we then have to argue that God is resting for all the other 7th day Sabbaths? Doing it once in Gen 2:2-3 in the context of creation and planet Earth - already established the binding nature for that day according to Ex 20:8-11.

Your argument appears logical, but there's a crucial aspect you may have overlooked. The obligation observed on that particular day stems from an old covenant, as outlined in Exodus 31:17, which Paul later deemed flawed in Hebrews 8:7. Anyway, how do you keep the Sabbath holy today without relying on human traditions? Jesus never mentioned that attending a temple on the Sabbath, especially one that neither worships Him nor follows His teachings but ultimately crucified Him, is a means of keeping the Sabbath holy.

 

[simplefaith]

Outside of these kind of websites where they exist for theological debate, in the real world, it would be the most pointless exercise to tell anyone they must obey the TC for example.

Every Christian I have ever known would say in their mind they know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness, murder, covet, take God’s name in vain etc. And every Christian I have ever known would say in their heart(the flesh is another matter) they do not want to do those things.



‘I will write my laws in their minds

And place them on their hearts.’

So it truly is a pointless exercise to tell any believer for example ‘’you must obey the TC.’’ Applicable law if you like is part of a person’s spiritual dna in Christ, that’s the NC. It is no longer an external law written in ink or engraved in stone, but an internal law, in believers most inward parts

Pointless to tell non believers also, they only want to live according to their own particular moral compass, not God’s.



The phrase ‘’you must obey the TC, is for a time before the NC came into existence, a time before God wrote the law in peoples minds and placed it on their hearts he wants them to follow. So, in reality many in truth want to follow an OC mindset. But as Jesus said:



Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say : ‘The old is better’ Luke5:39

 

[HIM]

I believe you are forgetting all those who tell us it is the ten commandments that are written on our hearts. I refute those statements as per the Apostle Paul. Paul was very explicit when he wrote 2Cor3:6-12.

You are wrong.

 

[HIM]

Outside of these kind of websites where they exist for theological debate, in the real world, it would be the most pointless exercise to tell anyone they must obey the TC for example.

Every Christian I have ever known would say in their mind they know God does not want them to steal, commit adultery, bear false witness, murder, covet, take God’s name in vain etc. And every Christian I have ever known would say in their heart(the flesh is another matter) they do not want to do those things.



‘I will write my laws in their minds

And place them on their hearts.’

So it truly is a pointless exercise to tell any believer for example ‘’you must obey the TC.’’ Applicable law if you like is part of a person’s spiritual dna in Christ, that’s the NC. It is no longer an external law written in ink or engraved in stone, but an internal law, in believers most inward parts

Pointless to tell non believers also, they only want to live according to their own particular moral compass, not God’s.



The phrase ‘’you must obey the TC, is for a time before the NC came into existence, a time before God wrote the law in peoples minds and placed it on their hearts he wants them to follow. So, in reality many in truth want to follow an OC mindset. But as Jesus said:



Many after drinking the old wine don’t want the new, for they say : ‘The old is better’ Luke5:39

Please don't quote from a Letter to say we are not to be of the Letter.

With no standard it boils down to, welcome to the age of subjectivity, if it feels good do it. As Crowley so aptly stated, do thine own will.

So, our Lord and Savior had preserved His Word, the NT and Old. Were as we are not to be of the Letter, the Letter we ALL look.

 

[HIM]

I don't think the "new moon to new moon" statement is a mistranslation or that it does not reference the new moon event that was being observed at the time Isaiah was writing.

Thanks for the reply and Happy Sabbath.
Most think it is referring to the festival. Hence why the confusion. And why to translate it as new moon is a bad translation. It should be translated month

The translators who translated the LXX thought so. As do many modern translations.

 

[Leaf473]

"IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments" 1 John 14:15
"THIS IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3
"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6
God spoke the TEN "and added no more" Deut 5:22

And Paul notes "Honor your father and mother is the first commandment WITH a promise" Eph 6:2

I really like how often your posts set up this response as the slam dunk

I'm starting to view it as "team work".

I am still looking for where SB said "only the Ten commandments are perfect" or only the ten are useful etc.

I don't think she does, and that's what I was getting at.

Do you say that there are other commandments that are perfect?