The U.S. crime rate is still dropping, FBI data shows. Q4 2023 had 13% drop in murder, 6% drop in violent crime

essentialsaltes

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Why does the public think it's going up? “There is definitely more disorder in cities than there was five years ago," said one expert. “People confuse disorder and crime."

New FBI data confirms previous indications that crime in the U.S. declined significantly in 2023, continuing a post-pandemic trend and belying widespread perceptions that crime is rising.

“It suggests that when we get the final data in October, we will have seen likely the largest one-year decline in murder that has ever been recorded,” said Jeff Asher, a former CIA analyst who now studies crime trends.

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Particularly but not limited to America has a right wing element that inculcates the population into fear, doomsaying and end times-esques narratives. People are hard wired to experience fear and anxiety and it's so easy for fear-mongers to sell it.
 
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RestoreTheJoy

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Why does the public think it's going up? “There is definitely more disorder in cities than there was five years ago," said one expert. “People confuse disorder and crime."

New FBI data confirms previous indications that crime in the U.S. declined significantly in 2023, continuing a post-pandemic trend and belying widespread perceptions that crime is rising.

“It suggests that when we get the final data in October, we will have seen likely the largest one-year decline in murder that has ever been recorded,” said Jeff Asher, a former CIA analyst who now studies crime trends.

View attachment 344405
This is being reported in 2024, but actually refers to FOUR years ago: "The number of murders in the United States jumped by nearly 30% in 2020 compared with the previous year in the largest single-year increase ever recorded in the country, according to official FBI statistics released Monday.


The data shows 21,570 homicides in the U.S. in 2020, which is a staggering 4,901 more than in 2019. The tally makes clear — in concrete terms — just how violent last year was.


The overall violent crime rate, which includes murder, assault, robbery and rape, inched up around 5%, while property crimes continued their long-running decline and dropped 8% from 2019."

So it has dropped from an unprecedented year of 2020. What happened in 2020? Oh yes, the pandemic and then also BLM/Antifa rioting all over the country for several months.

 
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essentialsaltes

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This is being reported in 2024, but actually refers to FOUR years ago:
The data refers to 2023.

Yes, your three year old link refers to FOUR years ago.

Yes, there was a 'murder bump' in 2020, but the new data show that it's been erased.

According to Roman, crime rates are at a point now where we are essentially back to the long-term trend from the last decade.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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There's some interesting facets to this one...and the claims of "the crime rate is going down" are a tad misleading.

When you frame it into the time window of a slight drop off after a spike, that's a bit of "creative statistical work" to say the least.

If over a 3 year period
If Dave increased his daily beer intake from 8 to 10 over a period of 2 years, and then in the final six months, scaled it back down to 8.

It'd be, albeit statistically true, but a little misleading to say "Dave's drinking has actually gone down 20% in the past 6 months" as a means of implying "people who are concerned about Dave's drinking are just overreacting"


It's also fair to point out that the FBI crime reports (that indicate a drop in crime) coincide with them switching to using the solitary data source called the NIBRS...a source for which nearly a third of the nation's law enforcement entities aren't reporting data to.


as opposed to before, where they used the NIBRS in conjunction with the NCVS to get a bigger picture.

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So it stands to reason that it would show an overall decrease if they keep the source that shows the numbers going down (and that have heavily varying rates of participation), and put a 3 year pause on the one that showed certain crimes going up.


Perhaps the reason people perceive crime going up is because of a combination of both personal experiences and observations, plus getting some mixed messages.

"Crime is actually going down" doesn't seem to jive with "We need to put the National Guardsmen in the subways to help with security"
 
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eleos1954

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Why does the public think it's going up? “There is definitely more disorder in cities than there was five years ago," said one expert. “People confuse disorder and crime."

New FBI data confirms previous indications that crime in the U.S. declined significantly in 2023, continuing a post-pandemic trend and belying widespread perceptions that crime is rising.

“It suggests that when we get the final data in October, we will have seen likely the largest one-year decline in murder that has ever been recorded,” said Jeff Asher, a former CIA analyst who now studies crime trends.

View attachment 344405
Many crimes are not being prosecuted and/or plea bargained down and therefore are not reflected in the stats accurately. Also there are many crimes that are not reported (estimated to be around 40% not reported)
 
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BLM Antifa riots and billions in damage happened, as explained.
non sequitur

So? How much of that was done by the rightists pretending to be ANTIFA and BLM?

AP finds most arrested in protests aren’t leftist radicals​


"Some of those facing charges undoubtedly share far-left and anti-government views. Far-right protesters also have been arrested and charged. Some defendants have driven to protests from out of state. Some have criminal records and were illegally carrying weapons. Others are accused of using the protests as an opportunity to steal or create havoc."
 
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Lukaris

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Crime is down, inflation is down, poverty is down, armed conflict is down, terrorism is down etc.

Yet:





 
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The Barbarian

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But wait, I thought all those bloodthirsty criminals were invading us?

Oh wait; here it is:
Many crimes are not being prosecuted and/or plea bargained down and therefore are not reflected in the stats accurately. Also there are many crimes that are not reported (estimated to be around 40% not reported)
"They are lying! All of them are lying!!!" Right.

I guess you do what you must with what you have. Better imaginary stuff than nothing at all.
 
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The Barbarian

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Crime is down, inflation is down, poverty is down, armed conflict is down, terrorism is down etc.

Yet:
(some places still have a problem with crime)

And...?

"Well, it might be a lot better, but it's still not perfect. So there!"

Yeah.

"Some of those facing charges undoubtedly share far-left and anti-government views. Far-right protesters also have been arrested and charged. Some defendants have driven to protests from out of state. Some have criminal records and were illegally carrying weapons. Others are accused of using the protests as an opportunity to steal or create havoc."
Today's winner.
 
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Lukaris

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(some places still have a problem with crime)

And...?

"Well, it might be a lot better, but it's still not perfect. So there!"

Yeah.


Today's winner.
Crime was dropping when the First Step Act was passed, especially recidivism.


Homicides in the US were dropping prior to the 2020 pandemic & may have stayed lower but rose thanks to the “defund the police” rabble & remain high.


Homicides by year. FBI
Location20182019202020212022
United States16,37416,66921,57022,53621,156




 
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The Barbarian

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Homicides in the US were dropping prior to the 2020 pandemic
Had been for decades. Then they went up a bit under Trump.
iu


& may have stayed lower but rose thanks to the “defund the police” rabble & remain high.
I wasn't aware that the rise in crime was because Trump defunded the police. I just figured that he was leading by example.

Based on data collected by the FBI, the fact-checking organization found that the number of violent crimes per 100,000 people in Obama’s last full year in office, 2016, was nearly 16% lower than the rate in 2008, the year before Obama took office. Likewise, the total number of violent crimes in 2016 was about 10% lower than the total number in 2008

‘Murder rate now is up 26% across the nation’

In discussing what Biden says has happened to the murder rate under Trump, Biden’s campaign cited an analysis by crime analyst Jeff Asher that pointed out a 26% increase in the number of murders.

The analysis was not adjusted for population and did not specify the rate change. (For instance, the FBI calculates the murder rate as being per 100,000 people.) But Asher and two other criminologists not involved in the analysis told PolitiFact that since the population changes very little from one year to the other, the murder rate increase would also be around 26%.


March 2024

US stats show violent crime dramatically falling, so why is there a rising clash with perception?

"I don't believe the statistics," said Auriol Sonia Morris, a Trump supporter.
According to a Forbes magazine study released this month on the most dangerous states in America, South Carolina ranks eighth with a crime rate of 4.91 violent crimes per every 1,000 residents. Still, an annual report published in November by the South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division found overall violent crime dropped 2.6% from 2021 to 2022, including a 12% decrease in homicides.
...
"This is a long-term phenomenon. Crime has decreased since the middle of Bill Clinton’s first term precipitously," Lavine told ABC News. "It isn’t a simple story of linear decline from whenever it started to right now. It was until the pandemic and then it spiked, and now it’s on the way back down to that baseline where you would predict if there were no pandemic. But it is one of the very long-term misperceptions that Americans have."

 
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Lukaris

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Homicides in the US were dropping prior to the 2020 pandemic
Had been for decades. Then they went up a bit under Trump





1st statement above is me & then Barbarian reply to it,






Homicide increased coincidentally (?) with the then return of the House of Representatives to demo control in 2019.

Crime also decreases in many places when word games and psychotic policies say what was once criminal is now permissible.


 
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The Barbarian

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Homicide increased coincidentally (?) with the then return of the House of Representatives to demo control in 2019.
Hmm... and exactly how did the House of representatives instantly change the crime rate? C'mon. Your guy was in charge and he blew it; crime went up. We got that. And now that Biden is president, the crime rate is falling. We got that, too. No way to deny it.
Crime also decreases in many places when word games and psychotic policies say what was once criminal is now permissible.

Trump defends Jan. 6 rioters' 'hang Mike Pence' chant in new audio

The audio captured part of an interview ABC News’ Jonathan Karl conducted with Trump at Mar-a-Lago in March for Karl’s upcoming book.

Maybe so... but it didn't last. Hundreds of Trump's followers have been convicted or pleaded guilty to the crimes they did at his urging, and more are yet to be brought to justice.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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March 2024

US stats show violent crime dramatically falling, so why is there a rising clash with perception?

"I don't believe the statistics," said Auriol Sonia Morris, a Trump supporter.
According to a Forbes magazine study released this month on the most dangerous states in America, South Carolina ranks eighth with a crime rate of 4.91 violent crimes per every 1,000 residents. Still, an annual report published in November by the South Carolina State Law Enforcement Division found overall violent crime dropped 2.6% from 2021 to 2022, including a 12% decrease in homicides.
...
"This is a long-term phenomenon. Crime has decreased since the middle of Bill Clinton’s first term precipitously," Lavine told ABC News. "It isn’t a simple story of linear decline from whenever it started to right now. It was until the pandemic and then it spiked, and now it’s on the way back down to that baseline where you would predict if there were no pandemic. But it is one of the very long-term misperceptions that Americans have."
It could have something to do with what I mentioned in my previous post.

There were two different data sources they used to rely on in tandem for a few years
The NIBRS (which was showing a slight decrease)
The NCVS (which was showing increases in certain crimes)

The put a 3-year pause on the NCVS in 2022 for re-instrumentation and it won't be factored back in until 2025.

So they're now relying on NIBRS as the sole source of data...which creates accuracy challenges as it's a system that's less than 5 years old, and 1/3 of law enforcement agencies don't report to it. NY's NIBRS reporting rate is particularly bad (2nd only to Florida's poor NIBRS reporting rate).

NYC also happens to be the same place where they claim crime is actually going down, yet the Governor just deployed National Guardsmen to the subway.


Point of reference, the left-leaning publication the Kansas Reflector brought up the very things I'm talking about to call "Shenanigans" on Ron DeSantis's claims of how much safer he made the state of Florida


So it would seem people of all factions can see "creative statistical work" for what it is when they catch the other side doing it.


As far as perceptions go, especially in NYC, there's a lot of people there who remember the much safer/cleaner time in the city from 1994-2001. For all of Rudy's present-day faults and looniness, his administration did clean up the city quite a bit. So for people in the age range where they grew up there in 90's (and don't remember how bad the 70's/80's were there)...the present day situation in NYC probably does seem like it's way worse than they remember the city being 15-20 years ago.
 
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The Barbarian

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As far as perceptions go, especially in NYC, there's a lot of people there who remember the much safer/cleaner time in the city from 1994-2001. For all of Rudy's present-day faults and looniness, his administration did clean up the city quite a bit. So for people in the age range where they grew up there in 90's (and don't remember how bad the 70's/80's were there)...the present day situation in NYC probably does seem like it's way worse than they remember the city being 15-20 years ago.
I notice that New York isn't even in the top 50 highest crime rate cities in America. It is the 12th safest large city in America.

So the recent decline in crime in NYC is not a statistical artifact. Apples to apples.
 
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