A Republican ideal, work until you die

[BPPLEE]

What makes you think this attitude is representative of the folks working these jobs? The average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment in the US is $1482/mo or almost $18,000/yr. For that to be considered "affordable" under the rule-of-thumb that housing costs shouldn't exceed 30% of your gross income, one would need to clear $59k/yr.

If you split a 2-BR (avg rent: $1837), that gets you down to $11,022/yr, which is considered "affordable" at $37k/yr.

If you want to point the finger at folks being entitled, point the finger at the folks that @rjs330 describes in his post 44.




You know who's entitled in that scenario? The consumers who expect others to work for pennies so they can buy stuff cheap, and the posters here who think that's a good thing.

Well when hamburgers cost $30 they’ll go out of business and those who got a living wage will suddenly have no wages

 

[BPPLEE]

You presume to know what her situation was when she had those kids.

You presume to know how much child support and government assistance she gets?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Well when hamburgers cost $30 they’ll go out of business and those who got a living wage will suddenly have no wages

All the hipster joints around me that charge high prices seem to be doing fine.

You presume to know how much child support and government assistance she gets?

I don’t presume to know anything about her situation beyond what was in that article.

 

[BPPLEE]

All the hipster joints around me that charge high prices seem to be doing fine.


I don’t presume to know anything about her situation beyond what was in that article.

The Hipster joint wouldn’t make it here.

 

[BPPLEE]

"Cost of living" is, for the most part, another term for "cost of housing." Outside of a couple of unique places like NYC or SF, most non-housing expenses don't go up all that much in "HCOL" areas.

Am I correct in assuming that your mortgage doesn't include property taxes and was acquired before interest rates went up a few years ago? We got ours in 2015 (refinanced a few years ago); original purchase price was around $270k; original mortgage was around $220k. Mortgage payment and property taxes are each right about $800/mo. Interest rate is 2-point-something.

We were able to swing that on two incomes of around $50k each.

That works out great for us now that our incomes have more than doubled, but a new homebuyer couldn't do that right now. I don't know what home prices have been like in Montgomery, but my house is now worth at least 50% more than when I bought it, maybe as much as 75% more, and interest rates are triple what mine are.

I must be misunderstanding this. Are you saying that you pay $800 a month just in property taxes or is the combined amount of your mortgage and property taxes $800 a month.?

Montgomery County, Alabama - Property Tax Rates

www.propertytax101.org

 

[JSRG]

Average 1BR rent in Montgomery, AL is about $1000/mo. Coincidentally, $20/hr is exactly what you'd need to make in order to make $1000/mo "affordable" under the 30% rule. Your definition of "very good" is being able to live by yourself without being house poor.

The thing about an "average" price is that it inherently means there's things cheaper than it. If someone's not making a huge amount of money, generally they'd go for the cheaper ones, not the average ones. If I go to apartments.com and search for Montgomery, Alabama, I can find apartments for quite a bit cheaper than that; the cheapest ones right now are $495/month. That requires a considerably lower income; at your proposed 30%, it would require an annual income of $19,800, or (if working full time), $9.52/hour.

 

[BPPLEE]

The thing about an "average" price is that it inherently means there's things cheaper than it. If someone's not making a huge amount of money, generally they'd go for the cheaper ones, not the average ones. If I go to apartments.com and search for Montgomery, Alabama, I can find apartments for quite a bit cheaper than that; the cheapest ones right now are $495/month. That requires a considerably lower income; at your proposed 30%, it would require an annual income of $19,800, or (if working full time), $9.52/hour.

He didn’t take into account how many qualify for section 8 either

 

[rambot]

She’s a single mother who can’t pay her rent WITH FOUR CHILDREN. Do you see the problem here? Okay, she made a mistake, not once, but FOUR TIMES.
Why do you think I only had one child?

Im not really convinced that she views her children as "mistakes" in the same compassionate way as other people may. Maybe she should have aborted her fetuses once she got pregnant then?

 

[BCP1928]

Strange how the topic of this thread has shifted.

 

[BPPLEE]

Im not really convinced that she views her children as "mistakes" in the same compassionate way as other people may. Maybe she should have aborted her fetuses once she got pregnant then?

I’m sure that you support her right to have that option so it seems disingenuous for you to imply that it’would have been a bad thing

 

[iluvatar5150]

I must be misunderstanding this. Are you saying that you pay $800 a month just in property taxes or is the combined amount of your mortgage and property taxes $800 a month.?

Montgomery County, Alabama - Property Tax Rates

www.propertytax101.org

I meant that $800 was property taxes and $800 went to mortgage, so the total bill every month is roughly $1600, but I just checked and that's not correct. The total is correct, but the property taxes portion is more like $515/mo.

He didn’t take into account how many qualify for section 8 either

Are we basing the notion og "good wages" or "living wages" on the government subsidies that are available?

 

[BPPLEE]

I meant that $800 was property taxes and $800 went to mortgage, so the total bill every month is roughly $1600, but I just checked and that's not correct. The total is correct, but the property taxes portion is more like $515/mo.



Are we basing the notion og "good wages" or "living wages" on the government subsidies that are available?

Your property taxes are outrageous.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Your property taxes are outrageous.

They're high (roughly double the rate of neighboring counties), but I'd argue that yours are absurdly low. $435 on a $121k house? Come on. That doesn't pay for anything.

Either way, your state gets you some other way. MD's effective tax burden is 11.3% while AL's is 9.8%. Your income tax rate is slightly higher (5% vs 4.75% for income between $3k and $100k) and your sales tax rate is much higher (avg 9.2% vs 6% in MD). I wouldn't be surprised if the gap in those effective tax burdens was shrunk a little bit come tax season, since it's generally easier to document and deduct property taxes than it is run-of-the-mill sales tax.

 

[rjs330]

FYI:

Wage theft accounts for the VAST majority of theft in the US. We're talking close to 60-70%.

That wage theft is not being done by billionaires. It's being done by managers and owners of small businesses or francises.

Wrong. Employee time theft is more than wage theft.

 

[rjs330]

There used to be a program to train people for jobs and during training employers could work them the first 40 hours without pay. There was a small business owner in my hometown that would have them work a week, not pay them anything then tell them they didn’t get the job

That's inexcusable. There is no doubt at all that there are bad employers out there as well as bad employees. It's the fallen world we live in. It's a shame on all accounts.

 

[rjs330]

It's inherent to the system. There aren't enough young people to work these jobs - if they're going to be filled, many will be filled by older workers.

Some of those older workers are also just looking for part time work to add to their income. I know I will be when I retire. I don't want to just sit around. I have places to go and things to see.

The barriers to job transitions can be quite high, especially for somebody born in a poor area without much of an economy.

I'm sure that's true in some areas. There are a lot of very small towns in America with little to no economy to speak of. Where exactly are these businesses supposed to pay people living wages if there is no economy to support it? That's a chunk of my point.

But you can leave those areas. No one is forcing you to stay. It might not be easy, but nothing in life is. My daughter decided to pack up everything into her car and just leave. It wasn't easy. She had no schooling. But she is now a hotel manager. Her work ethic has helped.

Most restaurant managers (especially fast food) aren't making a lot of money. A lot of the listings I see on Indeed and elsewhere put them around $20-30/hr for a MCOL city.

That's pretty good for a fast food manager. After all, you are working in a fast food business. It's not supposed be be a high end big money job. Never has been.

 

[rjs330]

Because there aren't a lot of other options in your area? Because you don't have the skills necessary to make that jump? Because you have a lot of other responsibilities that take up the time you'd use for training? Because you can't afford to relocate to a more expensive place where the jobs are?

Where do you live and what do you do that this is easy?

Who said it was easy? Is it supposed to be? Are you supposed to be able to just walk into a business with no skills and just get paid good money for doing whatever? Coming man it's never been that way and will never be that way.

I have to say I'm amazed at how many people think it should take little to no effort to go work. That includes those who believe jobs paying good money ought to be just handed to you and then businesses should cater to whatever needs you may have. You should be able to work whatever hours you want to work, days you want to work and have lots of time off and work as few hours as you can. And then you should be paid good money for no effort and mediocre work.

If you are able bodied then go work and work hard. If you are disabled or have functional difficulties then let's do all we can as a society to help you out. I also have no problems with helping the elderly either. They gave of their lives to their families and communities and nation. We can certainly help them out in their declining years.

 

[iluvatar5150]

That's pretty good for a fast food manager. After all, you are working in a fast food business. It's not supposed be be a high end big money job. Never has been.

$40k/yr isn't "pretty good" for anything.

I have to say I'm amazed at how many people think it should take little to no effort to go work.

Who's saying that?

That includes those who believe jobs paying good money ought to be just handed to you and then businesses should cater to whatever needs you may have. You should be able to work whatever hours you want to work, days you want to work and have lots of time off and work as few hours as you can. And then you should be paid good money for no effort and mediocre work.

If you are able bodied then go work and work hard.

How old are you and when was the last time you had to find a new job in a new city? Because every time you talk about anything workforce-related, it just screams "out of touch old man."

I don't say this as somebody who expects things to be handed to them. I didn't grow up with money. I've worked hard, for long hours. I've worked multiple jobs. I've hustled. I've packed up my car and moved to other cities with little backstop. I've done all the things you've described. And it ultimately worked out for me - I now have a "cool" job that I like, that treats me well, that pays fairly well, and my coworkers are legitimate friends.

But while I've done these things and made a bunch of good decision, I can also look back and see how lucky I've been at times, how on multiple occasions I've survived by the skin of my teeth. How certain layoffs, if they'd happened even a month or two earlier or later, could've left me out of work for far longer. How certain poor decisions or unfortunate circumstances that have had devastating consequences for others turned out to be inconsequential for me.

While my situation worked out for me, it isn't scalable. There are a lot of people who sat next to me in class, or who worked along side me at jobs, for whom it didn't work out. The journey you describe - the one I followed - is not reasonable to expect of most people.

 

[rjs330]

What makes you think this attitude is representative of the folks working these jobs? The average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment in the US is $1482/mo or almost $18,000/yr. For that to be considered "affordable" under the rule-of-thumb that housing costs shouldn't exceed 30% of your gross income, one would need to clear $59k/yr.

If you split a 2-BR (avg rent: $1837), that gets you down to $11,022/yr, which is considered "affordable" at $37k/yr.

If you want to point the finger at folks being entitled, point the finger at the folks that @rjs330 describes in his post 44.




You know who's entitled in that scenario? The consumers who expect others to work for pennies so they can buy stuff cheap, and the posters here who think that's a good thing.

Housing is the biggest problem. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that. As I've said before paying a lot of wages only makes everything else cost more as well. Including the things we need to be cheaper. This is why it's important not to get carried away with this "living wage" thing.

I really would like to see some ideas on housing costs because that is seriously one of the biggest problems.

 

[Larniavc]

MSN

Honestly that is what this opinion piece advocates. No retirement. Not no mandatory retirement, which I'm OK with. No retirement at all.

Here is my proposal for their official theme song!

Wow. I’m 50 and I’m semi retired. The States treat people awfully.