A Republican ideal, work until you die

[rjs330]

This attitude is so divorced from reality that it’s hard to believe one can walk outside with any regularity and still believe it.

For this to hold true, all (or even just most) of the low end service jobs would have to be held by younger people, say, under 30.

But that isn’t remotely the case, is it? No, it’s not. Many folks work low wage jobs their entire lives.

Who's fault is that? No one has to stay in a low wage job their entire lives. And what do consider a low wage job? How much is a low wage job?

 

[rjs330]

Very condescending to call people who want to serve food to others for a career as unwise. Talk about being out of touch with average Americans...

Most American business do not provide retirement plans. Consider yourself lucky.

Tell me then why you would make an entire career out of a low paying job serving people in a restaurant. Say you started when you were a teen. Why are you still in this low paying job in your 50:s?

 

[rjs330]

Do people over the age of 40 not work service jobs where you live?

In my area people who are waiting on tables are either very young. Those who are doing it in their 40s are working the high end jobs at the high end restaurants where the pay and tips are very good. Those working at IHOP are young or if they are middle aged they are the managers or convicts who are entering the work force. There are those also who who have no drive to do better.

There are humans who are like that you know.

There are people who are just not motivated enough to move on to something else. Why would you stay in a career that doesn't pay you well for your whole life? I'm talking about normal run of the mill everyday people. Not those who are addicted or disabled or severely mentally ill etc.

 

[rambot]

So it’s not just billionaires who don’t pay their fair share of taxes?

FYI:

Wage theft accounts for the VAST majority of theft in the US. We're talking close to 60-70%.

That wage theft is not being done by billionaires. It's being done by managers and owners of small businesses or francises.

 

[BPPLEE]

FYI:

Wage theft accounts for the VAST majority of theft in the US. We're talking close to 60-70%.

That wage theft is not being done by billionaires. It's being done by managers and owners of small businesses or francises.

There used to be a program to train people for jobs and during training employers could work them the first 40 hours without pay. There was a small business owner in my hometown that would have them work a week, not pay them anything then tell them they didn’t get the job

 

[iluvatar5150]

Who's fault is that?

It's inherent to the system. There aren't enough young people to work these jobs - if they're going to be filled, many will be filled by older workers.

If we define "young people" as people 18-25, then they make up approximately 5.48% of the population or about 18.2 million people.

There are 14.9 million restaurant employees across 749,000 restaurants in the US.

That's just restaurants. There are loads of other low-wage service jobs in the US like retail and healthcare. Wal-mart employs 1.5 million people in the US; Target employs 440,000.

Meanwhile, there are 15.4 million undergrads.

No one has to stay in a low wage job their entire lives.

The barriers to job transitions can be quite high, especially for somebody born in a poor area without much of an economy.

In my area people who are waiting on tables are either very young. Those who are doing it in their 40s are working the high end jobs at the high end restaurants where the pay and tips are very good. Those working at IHOP are young or if they are middle aged they are the managers or convicts who are entering the work force. There are those also who who have no drive to do better.

Most restaurant managers (especially fast food) aren't making a lot of money. A lot of the listings I see on Indeed and elsewhere put them around $20-30/hr for a MCOL city.

There are humans who are like that you know.

There are people who are just not motivated enough to move on to something else. Why would you stay in a career that doesn't pay you well for your whole life? I'm talking about normal run of the mill everyday people.

Because there aren't a lot of other options in your area? Because you don't have the skills necessary to make that jump? Because you have a lot of other responsibilities that take up the time you'd use for training? Because you can't afford to relocate to a more expensive place where the jobs are?

Where do you live and what do you do that this is easy?

 

[Aldebaran]

Seems cold.
Why?
Don't you think those people don't deserve a wage that supports their basic needs? SOMEBODY needs to make your Jimmy Johns.......like someone HAS to do that...until automation takes over anyways.

Here's what I was replying to:

You mean everything like bills paid, food to eat and shelter?

I said "yes".
Now, what's "cold" about those things being covered?

 

[Aldebaran]

This attitude is so divorced from reality that it’s hard to believe one can walk outside with any regularity and still believe it.

For this to hold true, all (or even just most) of the low end service jobs would have to be held by younger people, say, under 30.

But that isn’t remotely the case, is it? No, it’s not. Many folks work low wage jobs their entire lives.

Ok, then they just have to budget their money and not buy everything they see, and not think they are entitled to ownership of whatever they lay their eyes on.

 

[Aldebaran]

Entitled?

Why are you implying that people who work low-end service jobs believe they are entitled to ownership of whatever they lay their eyes on? That is what the rich people do.

I never said they are entitled. I simply said that should not think they are entitled to ownership of whatever they lay their eyes on. Many people who don't have a whole lot of money still spend what little they have on frivilous things, and then complain that their employer is somehow to blame when they run out of money.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Ok, then they just have to budget their money and not buy everything they see, and not think they are entitled to ownership of whatever they lay their eyes on.

What makes you think this attitude is representative of the folks working these jobs? The average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment in the US is $1482/mo or almost $18,000/yr. For that to be considered "affordable" under the rule-of-thumb that housing costs shouldn't exceed 30% of your gross income, one would need to clear $59k/yr.

If you split a 2-BR (avg rent: $1837), that gets you down to $11,022/yr, which is considered "affordable" at $37k/yr.

If you want to point the finger at folks being entitled, point the finger at the folks that @rjs330 describes in his post 44.

Unless consumers want $30 Jimmy John sandwiches you can't give them a wage to live on.

Often close to doubling them but the result is the cost of fast food has come close to doubling in my area and department stores have a large shortage of workers. They can't hire more people because they can't afford it without large increases in cost of goods to the consumer. That means when you go into the store, the shelves are not stocked, you have to wander about the store looking for someone to help you. You are seeing less variety of things for two reasons that the stores can't afford to buy it and there is no one to stock it.

You know who's entitled in that scenario? The consumers who expect others to work for pennies so they can buy stuff cheap, and the posters here who think that's a good thing.

 

[BPPLEE]

It's inherent to the system. There aren't enough young people to work these jobs - if they're going to be filled, many will be filled by older workers.

If we define "young people" as people 18-25, then they make up approximately 5.48% of the population or about 18.2 million people.

There are 14.9 million restaurant employees across 749,000 restaurants in the US.

That's just restaurants. There are loads of other low-wage service jobs in the US like retail and healthcare. Wal-mart employs 1.5 million people in the US; Target employs 440,000.

Meanwhile, there are 15.4 million undergrads.




The barriers to job transitions can be quite high, especially for somebody born in a poor area without much of an economy.



Most restaurant managers (especially fast food) aren't making a lot of money. A lot of the listings I see on Indeed and elsewhere put them around $20-30/hr for a MCOL city.



Because there aren't a lot of other options in your area? Because you don't have the skills necessary to make that jump? Because you have a lot of other responsibilities that take up the time you'd use for training? Because you can't afford to relocate to a more expensive place where the jobs are?

Where do you live and what do you do that this is easy?

Walmart pays pretty well

 

[Aldebaran]

What makes you think this attitude is representative of the folks working these jobs? The average rent for a 1-bedroom apartment in the US is $1482/mo or almost $18,000/yr. For that to be considered "affordable" under the rule-of-thumb that housing costs shouldn't exceed 30% of your gross income, one would need to clear $59k/yr.

If you split a 2-BR (avg rent: $1837), that gets you down to $11,022/yr, which is considered "affordable" at $37k/yr.

If you want to point the finger at folks being entitled, point the finger at the folks that @rjs330 describes in his post 44.




You know who's entitled in that scenario? The consumers who expect others to work for pennies so they can buy stuff cheap, and the posters here who think that's a good thing.

If they don't think they're entitled, and therefore live within their means, then they aren't entitled.
If they live beyond their means, then complain about it, then they do feel entitled.

I'm happy to explain it further if you need me to.

 

[keith99]

Umm.... Who's doing this as life long career? Someone unwise, or perhaps someone who works as a server in an area that pays much better than that?

Even most retirement plans paid for by a company are not fully covered. I had a job with a retirement plan and I paid into it every paycheck by a pretty good chunk. 25 years later I retired. I know work a different job.

Start early in your career, put money away even when it's just a small amount. As you get older you'll make more money and have more opportunities out there. When I leav my current job I'm going to do something else part time. I'm not going to sit around and twiddle my thumbs like my grandfather used to do.

Retirement without enough money to still have fun is not desirable. I'm twice fortunate. Many things I like are not expensive and I have enough money that at this point it keeps growing rather than getting used up. The first does contribute to the second.

 

[Aldebaran]

If you did not believe they are entitled why imply that they should not think they are entitled. It sounds like you assume that they believe they are entitled.

Frivolous things to buy are what makes American capitalism GREAT! If you are disciplined on not buying frivolous things then good on you, but if you expect everybody else to be like you then you are fooling yourself.

How many poor people blame the employer when they spend their money on frivolous things? This sounds like an assumption you can not defend.

When did you realize you are entitled to judge others who you believe are entitled?

Live within your means, and you'll be fine.
Is that clear enough?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Walmart pays pretty well

What's your idea of "pretty well"?

The listings for in-store "General Merchandise" jobs around here say the wage range is $14-26/hr. I have no idea where within that range they actually try to get people to land. The high end of it may be okay, but the low end is very much not "pretty well."

 

[BPPLEE]

What's your idea of "pretty well"?

The listings for in-store "General Merchandise" jobs around here say the wage range is $14-26/hr. I have no idea where within that range they actually try to get people to land. The high end of it may be okay, but the low end is very much not "pretty well."

They were advertising here for stockers at $20 an hour. That’s very good for this area.
$14 an hour for an entry level job is not bad though.

 

[Aldebaran]

That is clear, but that is not what you said. You said - Live within your means, and you'll be fine - but don't act entitled.

Your quote of me doesn't match any of my posts.

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's difficult for me to imagine restaurant owners as being very greedy. By and large, most restaurants earn only about 3% profit.

lol, have you met any restaurant owners?

Even the good ones you have to keep an eye on.

So it’s not just billionaires who don’t pay their fair share of taxes?

I trust small business owners less than I trust billionaires.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Those fortunate enough to make it to 70 usually see significant health issues. depending on the physical demands of their jobs work may not even be an option, especially when employers would rather have younger people.

And what about inflation? That $100 I saved ten years ago maybe worth $114 today but the costs are now $132.

 

[rambot]

Here's what I was replying to:


I said "yes".
Now, what's "cold" about those things being covered?

Sorry. There was a misunderstanding there.