Is believing/faith a work ?

[Brightfame52]

I think its important to keep in mind that while faith is a gift of grace, it's also a human choice: to accept, embrace, and act upon that gift, and continue doing so. Then this plays itself out in how we live our lives. Faith is certainly no "work of the law" (which is what Paul was objecting to) as those works depend on our efforts to justify ourselves while faith means dependence upon God to justify us. This means that we're now in His family, enabled by the Spirit to live as children of His should live. Our wills remain active and involved in this relationship to the end. We can move closer or further away from Him.

This is works !

 

[fhansen]

This is works !

Justification is a free gift, in response to faith which, itself, is a gift of grace. It's to acknowledge our need for God for everything, including holiness/righteousness. But we can refuse that gift to begin with, or reject it later on at any point. At any rate, once justified, one is expected to act upon that gift, to invest those "talents", to make effort to be holy because without it no one will see the Lord (Heb 12:14).

Salvation has always been a concerted effort, with God at the helm initiating and calling and prompting and informing and drawing us into it all-but never outright compelling us to enter relationship with Him, or to remain in Him. We must pick up our cross and follow daily, with the grace we now possess. He didn't force Adam to comply in the beginning-He doesn't force us now.

 

[Clare73]

Ok, well then, let me ask you a question:
In Rom 10:9-10, does one confess Jesus as Lord because he has been saved? Or does one's confession of Jesus as Lord lead to/result in him being saved? What does the Scripture say?

The Scriptures say belief of the heart is necessary for confession of the mouth to save.
So confession of the mouth alone does not save, only belief of the heart (faith) saves (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[Clare73]

Yes it is Gods word, and you arent in agreement Eph 2:8-9 it contradicts your conditionalism

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without merit.

 

[Brightfame52]

@fhansen

Justification is a free gift, in response to faith which, itself, is a gift of grace.

This is works.

Salvation has always been a concerted effort,

More works

 

[Brightfame52]

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is without merit.

You cant see it

 

[Doug Brents]

The Scriptures say belief of the heart is necessary for confession of the mouth to save.
So confession of the mouth alone does not save, only belief of the heart (faith) saves (Eph 2:8-9).

Absolutely, confession with the mouth alone does not save, I agree. But without the action of confession with the mouth, belief alone does not save either.

 

[Brightfame52]

Absolutely, confession with the mouth alone does not save, I agree. But without the action of confession with the mouth, belief alone does not save either.

All this is conditional works salvation at its finest

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Believing is a work of the mind friend. If you condition your salvation before God on your act, work of believing, thats a foundation of sand !

You do not seem to be able to grasp that neither believing (verb form of "to believe") nor faith (noun form of "to believe") are works.

"But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness." (Ro 4:5)​

By definition, the one who's faith is accounted for righteousness and who believes on Him who justifies the ungodly is not working.

Why can't you see it? Maybe because I have stumbled into another debate over Calvinism. In my experience, dealing with its tentacles (the topic of this thread possibly being one) instead of its heart (see below) is generally unprofitable. Per Wikipedia:

According to Calvinism, those who obtain salvation do so, not by their own "free" will, but because of the sovereign grace of God. That is, men yield to grace, not finally because their consciences were more tender or their faith more tenacious than that of other men. Rather, the willingness and ability to do God's will are evidence of God's own faithfulness to save men from the power and the penalty of sin, and since man is dead in sin and a slave to it, he cannot decide or be wooed to follow after God: God must powerfully intervene by giving him life and irresistibly drawing the sinner to himself. In short, Calvinism argues that regeneration must precede faith.​

​

Is this what we're dealing with, or something else?​

 

[Brightfame52]

@B Griffin

You do not seem to be able to grasp that neither believing (verb form of "to believe") nor faith (noun form of "to believe") are works.

Yes they are, and if you condition your salvation on them, its a works base salvation, which is sand

 

[Josheb]

@Josheb



So those for whom Christ died, shed His Blood for, are born as ungodly sinners, dead in sin, at enmity against God in their minds by wicked works disobedient and unbelieving, yet they are born Justified before God by His Blood ? Yes or No

No.

And if I continue to read off topic absurd questions like that one, I will ignore the posts. This op is about whether or not faith is a work, NOT about how a person is born.

 

[Brightfame52]

No.

And if I continue to read off topic absurd questions like that one, I will ignore the posts. This op is about whether or not faith is a work, NOT about how a person is born.

No ? Then you contradict yourself, you just paying lip service, you posted:

We are justified by the blood of Christ long before we're justified by faith, and faith is gifted to "us,

 

[Josheb]

Ok, so without going back and reading everything, what is the purpose of faith, or the difference between the old and new covenants?

No need to read everything written. Just read the opening post. What is the subject of this op?



(besides, I've been in the thread for this exchange only since page 68)
.

 

[fhansen]

No need to read everything written. Just read the opening post. What is the subject of this op?



(besides, I've been in the thread for this exchange only since page 68)
.

I read that yesterday, and see where I proceeded to become engaged in a long discussion with the OP back at the beginning, starting with my post #18.

 

[Clare73]

Absolutely, confession with the mouth alone does not save, I agree. But without the action of confession with the mouth, belief alone does not save either.

There are those who have been saved when there was no one to whom to confess.

 

[Josheb]

No need to read everything written. Just read the opening post. What is the subject of this op?

I read that yesterday, and see where I proceeded to become engaged in a long discussion with the OP back at the beginning, starting with my post #18.

And the answer to the question asked is .......................................?

 

[fhansen]

And the answer to the question asked is .......................................?

You dont know?

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Josheb]

You dont know?

I do know. This op is about whether or not believing faith is a work. I also know Post #1415 was off topic and my question was designed to get us on topic and in agreement to that effect, but I see there is difficulty answering a question as simple as "What is the subject of this op?" so I will thank you for your time and move on because I've no interest in going off topic, especially if it's likely to hijack someone else's thread. As I stated previously, this op is not about the purpose of faith, or the difference between the old and new covenants. Post those inquiries in a separate thread and I am confident many will offer their respective replies.

 

[Doug Brents]

There are those who have been saved when there was no one to whom to confess.

Who?

Rom 10:14-15 says that we are saved through calling on the name of the Lord, and we call on Him in whom we believe, and we believe because we have heard the Gospel, and we hear the Gospel from someone who teaches it. The written Word is not supposed to be the teaching medium, it is the medium for further learning, study, and evidentiary support of the truth of the Gospel. It is the teacher of the Word whose feet are beautiful. So then, everyone who has come to belief in Christ has had a teacher bring them to belief, and if there was someone there to bring them to belief, then there was someone there to whom they could, and should, confess their belief in Christ.

Further, based on Matt 10:32 and Luke 12:8, this confession must also be public, not just verbal. So, contrary to the common practice of "heads bowed and eyes closed" that many ministers (many of whom erroneously call themselves "pastor") insist on asking for when they offer an invitation, anyone who is too shy or scared to confess Jesus before the Church Jesus will not confess before the Angels and the Father in Heaven.