Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[Buzzard3]

Also you didn't mention in your post what saves

I said we're saved by God’s mercy, aka grace.

 

[Buzzard3]

You say to obtain grace you need to be justified by works then you say say The people of God who have faith in Jesus are Justified...What is it

??? I said neither of those things! I said
(a) to obtain grace we need to be justified by faith and works and
(b) the people of God are those have faith in Jesus and keep God's commandments - ie, justified by faith and works.

 

[MaxPower]

To obtain grace, we must be justified - initially by faith (Roman 3:28) and then by works

The people of God - the "saints" - the justified -

??? I said neither of those things! I said
(a) to obtain grace we need to be justified by faith and works and
(b) the people of God are those have faith in Jesus and keep God's commandments - ie, justified by faith and works.

I don't think you know what you are saying, You can't be Justified now if you think you are justified by your works at the end, it doesn't make sense, or you clearly do not know what justification is or the Blood atonement

 

[MaxPower]

I said we're saved by God’s mercy, aka grace.

But you also said to obtain mercy you need works

We are saved only through God's mercy, aka grace. To obtain grace, we must be justified - initially by faith (Roman 3:28) and then by works

So your idea is a false one as, Salvation is clearly not by works every Christian knows that

So what idea do you hide behind your idea of Grace, But if it was by Grace you think you work for as you say then it's no longer grace

It is by Grace through faith, and you can't mention what your faith is in that takes away sin, All you have presented so far is your works

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I said "if you want to make it a challenge, i accept" so i challenged you, after i said that you said "Thank you for accepting the challenge. Please understand that if you have to explain away the verses in what they plainly say in English then that is not playing fair in my humble opinion."

You add your own terms after and as you go along Then you kept adding to over 43 verses you demanded I explain, That is silly, I said i would challenge you and I did and you hide and run, you don't like answer questions you don't like, So you expect me to explain over 50 verses while you choose what you answer is not playing fair in my opinion

I love all the bible none of it makes me uncomfortable, it is all true but look ill play your game, pick a verse any verse and I will explain it in English if that is what you really want me to do for you, but without the Holy Spirits help how would you understand them anyway, I think your tactic is to bombard people with so much copy and pasting that it would so much time to go through each point, and then you ignore whatever questions you feel like and change the topic, that's what people that are not being honest do, reminds me of the local group that knock on the door in this town you explain points to them and as soon as you get somewhere they change the topic, there tactic seams distraction and overwhelm with nonsense, when they cant it seams it changes to accusations, Can you guess who you sound like?

Try answer something simple "What saves you?" "And what keeps you saved?" can you at least answer those questions?

The agreement was not 40 some verses but it was the ones I just posted to you in my previous reply (Which was in our initial discussion). That is what you agreed to and now your backing out. My later verses is merely my reply back to what you said. Do not read anything more into it than that. So again, the challenge is there. You said you accepted the challenge but I don’t see any results. So either make good on what you said or don’t.

Again, these are the pieces of Scripture I am asking for a word-for-word commentary on.

1 Timothy 5:8, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Jude 1:4.

So the ball is back in your court.

 

[MaxPower]

The agreement was not 40 some verses but it was the ones I just posted to you in my previous reply (Which was in our initial discussion). That is what you agreed to and now your backing out. My later verses is merely my reply back to what you said. Do not read anything more into it than that. So again, the challenge is there. You said you accepted the challenge but I don’t see any results. So either make good on what you said or don’t.

Again, these are the pieces of Scripture I am asking for a word-for-word commentary on.

1 Timothy 5:8, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Jude 1:4.

So the ball is back in your court.

But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

See it means what is says and says what it means.......But Jude 4 is very relevant here notice denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus, There are many trying to do what Jesus has already achieved by their own works, that's denying Jesus

But there you are, all those verses explained perfectly in English word for word

 

[Buzzard3]

I don't think you know what you are saying, You can't be Justified now if you think you are justified by your works at the end, it doesn't make sense, or you clearly do not know what justification is or the Blood atonement

What does the following verse mean?

"a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

 

[Buzzard3]

But you also said to obtain mercy you need works

In your opinion, how do you receive God’s mercy, aka grace?

 

[MaxPower]

What does the following verse mean?

"a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

In your opinion, how do you receive God’s mercy, aka grace?

So from all I posted, you ask two questions? You didn't answer anything, do you think that is fair

I am asking you to see if you know, and it is not the first time i have asked

 

[Buzzard3]

So your idea is a false one as, Salvation is clearly not by works every Christian knows that

In that case, why does Paul warn believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sinful works can result in them not getting to Heaven.

In Revelation 2 and 3, Jesus judges the seven Church's according to their "works" and declares certain believers "worthy" of eternal life on account of their good works. Please explain.

 

[Buzzard3]

All you have presented so far is your works

Stop lying. I said grace comes through being justified by faith and works.

Do you disagree with James 2:24? You're trying hard to ignore it.

 

[MaxPower]

Stop lying. I said grace comes through being justified by faith and works.

Faith in your works is not an acceptable answer

Listen and read very carefully

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[Buzzard3]

So what idea do you hide behind your idea of Grace, But if it was by Grace you think you work for as you say then it's no longer grace

How is it by grace if you first need faith? If by faith, it's no longer grace.

Obtaining grace is conditional. That's not my idea - it's God idea.

 

[Buzzard3]

Faith in your works is not an acceptable answer

You're lying yet again. I never said "faith in your works" - I said faith and works - as per James 2:24.

 

[Buzzard3]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

In Revelation 2 and 3, Jesus judges the seven Church's according to their "works" and declares certain believers "worthy" of eternal life on account of their good works. Please explain.

 

[MaxPower]

You're lying yet again. I never said "faith in your works" - I said faith and works - as per James 2:24.

You show your faith by your works, you are putting salvation on your works...that shows you don't have it

Try and think for a change, If without Jesus you can't do anything..... who gets credit

 

[MaxPower]

Stop lying.

Listen, If Salvation is not by works....as everyone should know, And you say it's by faith and works, and I say no it is not by works, you can't turn around and say liar I said it's by faith and works, that's not a logical answer...you said its by works when scripture says salvation is not by works, you have resorted to accuser again...try and be honest

prove it by saying what saves you? And what keeps you saved?

 

[Buzzard3]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

The meaning of that verse (Eph 2:8-9) is this: In order to receive grace, we need faith. We don’t receive grace through works alone - ie, works without faith.

That verse doesn't say we receive grace through faith alone and it doesn't say a believer's works are irrelevant to grace and salvation.


If we are saved by faith alone and a
believer's works are irrelevant to grace and salvation, why does James 2:24 say "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"?
You don't want to discuss James 2:24 and ignore it because it clearly contradicts your false doctrine of salvation through faith alone. Is that an honest approach to understanding Scripture?

 

[MaxPower]

The meaning of that verse (Eph 2:8-9) is this: In order to receive grace, we need faith. We don’t receive grace through works alone - ie, works without faith.

That verse doesn't say we receive grace through faith alone and it doesn't say a believer's works are irrelevant to grace and salvation.


If we are saved by faith alone and a
believer's works are irrelevant to grace and salvation, why does James 2:24 say "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"?
You don't want to discuss James 2:24 and ignore it because it clearly contradicts your false doctrine of salvation through faith alone. Is that an honest approach to understanding Scripture?

You are the only one that I have ever met that cannot understand that verse

So tell me what is your faith in?

What saves you? And what keeps you saved?

 

[Buzzard3]

If without Jesus you can't do anything..... who gets credit

Without Jesus' sacrifice on the cross, no one all would be saved, no matter what they believed or did.

You need to understand that there are two stages of our justification. The first stage was achieved by the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross - it didn't require anything from us - so it was unconditional. The second stage is achieved by us - through faith and works - so it's conditional.

We obtain grace by being justified through the conditions of faith and works, aka faith and obedience. If you have a problem with grace being conditional, complain to God - it's his idea, not mine.