Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[MaxPower]

Believers have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

Believers have past from death to life, there is no more condemnation for those in christ, That would be being called an accuser of the brethren, its not for you to decide

Romans 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

 

[MaxPower]

Well, that is merely your opinion unless you can explain the verses I put forth to you. So far, you have not done that.
You just keep repeating your verses from your own bias, and I have explained them in light of Scripture.
But you have not replied back to my biblical points using the context or cross references to prove you are right. You just keep putting forth new verses that supports your own false belief.

Scripture interprets Scripture im not as foolish as to try explain verses and add my own words like you do, it says what it says and I believe it, i give you the verses and you twist them and add your own bias and words, kinda like in the garden type situation, i give you scripture and you write novels about verses, its a worry

First, are you saying Jesus is Scripture? While I believe there is a Symbiotic Relationship between Jesus and the written Word, I do not believe they are one and the same.

Jesus is the Word of God, how do you think you learn about him, in the written word, Jesus is the Living word, You read scripture but it should lead you to Jesus

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Do you realize it is life you admit you are trying to work for, Jesus is life, you get him you get life

Anyway, I get why you brought up 1 Peter 3. At the end of that chapter, it talks about how we are being slanderously charged by others that we believe that we are to do evil so that good may come. You told me before that the man who committed fornication in the church in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved while he was in his fornication and kicked out of the church. This is doing evil. You are claiming that this person is saved despite his evil. You are saying that a person can do evil so that good may come (i.e., good being God's kingdom). Peter is saying in 1 Peter 3 that this is a slanderous charge. So your belief does not match up with what Peter says.

Yea that's exactly what you like to do, but the man actions where going to lead to been handed over to satan and killed, you think that is good coming getting good for evil, if you where handed over to satan for the destruction of your flesh would you consider that to be getting good, but you twist the verse to say may means may not, look how silly your twist on the verse is, if the man died how can it be may or may not when he would already be dead, the part you call getting evil for good is actually the part Jesus would do = save him, the mans actions led to bad God is always good, you are mixing the two

It's not personal by any means. I don't know you from Adam. I am merely preaching the truth of God's Word.
The choice is up to you to accept that truth or not.
But I believe a person can accept a false Jesus.
Whether that is the case for you, I don't know.
I don't have all the facts of your life. But as it stands, your current belief in Jesus is not the same as Jesus described in the Bible because Jesus did not teach that you can sin and still be saved.

Gods word doesn't call you to accuse and twist what people say , that's actually what the enemy does, you saying people don't believe Jesus or believe the bible when they confess faith in Jesus is not preaching the truth of Gods word it is the devils work, the accuser

So you think Jesus and Paul taught differently?
Do you think Jesus taught another gospel radically different than the one Paul had?
What do you make of 1 Timothy 6:3-4?
It says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine accordig to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing.

Jesus taught Paul, Jesus gave Paul his Gospel message after the cross, The disciples at one point didn't even know the Gentiles would be allowed in , Paul taught what Jesus told him, But there is progressive revelation, You ignore the mystery that was hid, or maybe it is still hid from you?

Again, you stated that you can sin and still be saved based on what you thought happened involving the believer who fornicated in the church. You think he was saved even while in fornication. Yet, Jesus warns about how hell is a destination for the person who even looks upon a woman in lust. So you don't believe in the same Jesus of the Bible because you don't accept His words in Matthew 5:28-30. Again, Paul also warned against how sin can destroy your soul or not cause you to enter the Kingdom (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Timothy 5:8).

No I didn't, see that is you making weird stuff up again,I say Christians cannot sin you are the one that accuses of sin....constantly, I believe Jesus words, I don't think you should look at a woman with lust

You’re not under the 613 Laws of Moses. You don't have to sacrifice animals, keep the Sabbath, dietary laws, holy days, circumcision, etcetera. That is what Paul is talking about when he says you are not under the Law.
Paul is not saying that we can mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and claim salvation all because of a belief alone in Jesus. Yes, I have talked with Christians who have admitted that they can do this (Both in person and online).
Again, you said to me before that the fornicating man who was kicked out of the church was saved in 1 Corinthians 5.

There is even a man named George Sodini. He murdered some people and took his own life thinking he was saved by a belief alone in Jesus. He was obviously turned God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Even his church knowing what he did said he was saved.
They also are turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

So you have set yourself up as Judge as well? I don't know who you are talking about, but you can only know if you are saved and you admitted you don't know if you have Jesus, so maybe don't worry about all those people you think are sinners and deal with your own sin, i know you are trying in your own way but that hasn't worked for you yet by your own admission, but you are going to keep trying the same thing, The Love of God makes me want to love others not kill them

This is a convenient way to not explain those verses that you said you were going to explain.

I don't need to explain away the Bible when the bible says it perfectly itself, it has you altering and adding and twisting every verse you get a chance, why not just take the bible for what is says, and pay attention to the first line of Paul's Gospel message

But If you have proper questions I am happy to answer, I noticed you avoided the most important question i asked you, about what you think happened to you when you said you where born again spiritually? because you said you don't know if you have Christ, Did you not receive him, or do you think you lost him?

1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[Buzzard3]

First off if the believers sin has been paid for it, it is dealt with, it's is gone so they cannot sin anymore

It's nonsense to claim that believers "cannot sin anymore". Grace doesn't remove a believer's sinful nature, so believers can sin anytime they choose to give into temptation.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8) In that verse, "we" refers to believers.

Are you claiming that you can't and don't sin?

 

[Buzzard3]

Christians are not the unrighteous, They are the righteousness of God in Christ, they have the gift of righteousness

Why do you think unbelievers will be in hell, its because of their sin, see your list for examples

it goes on to say
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Why does Paul sternly warn the "righteous" Christians who have repented from their sins that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9-10)? It's because it possible they will return to their former sins, thereby putting at risk their salvation.

In other words, the justified can become un-justified by returning to serious sin.

 

[Buzzard3]

Christians are not under the law they are under grace

We are saved by grace, but to obtain grace we must be justified by faith and works (James 2:24). What is meant by "works" is obedience - ie, keeping God's commandments, which is law.

If "Christians are not under the law", why does Paul state in Romans 13:8-10 that Christians have "fulfilled the law" by loving their neighbour?

In that passage, Paul also cites some of the Ten Commandments - why would he cite those commandments to Christians if they don't apply to Christians?

 

[MaxPower]

It's nonsense to claim that believers "cannot sin anymore". Grace doesn't remove a believer's sinful nature, so believers can sin anytime they choose to give into temptation.

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8) In that verse, "we" refers to believers.

Are you claiming that you can't and don't sin?

I am claiming that you don't have any authority to call believers sinners, at what point would that be an accuser of the brethren

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[MaxPower]

Why does Paul sternly warn the "righteous" Christians who have repented from their sins that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God (1Cor 6:9-10)? It's because it possible they will return to their former sins, thereby putting at risk their salvation.

In other words, the justified can become un-justified by returning to serious sin.

He doesn't you do, I showed you he said

"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

You don't understand Justification

 

[MaxPower]

We are saved by grace, but to obtain grace we must be justified by faith and works

That is a cult teaching, God's Grace Is Gods you shouldn't put restrictions on it

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You can try to do all the works you want but Salvation is by Grace through Faith

I just usually quote Scripture for you and you don't listen, No one is justified by the law. Law is the knowledge of sin...that applies to you

 

[Buzzard3]

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

That verse obviously doesn't mean a believer cannot sin. Even Paul didn't claim to sinless.
Are you claiming to be sinless and that you are incapable of sinning?

I'm glad you quoted John, because he also said this:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8). In that verse, "we" refers to believers.

Please explain what that verse means.

 

[MaxPower]

That verse obviously doesn't mean a believer cannot sin. Even Paul didn't claim to sinless.
Are you claiming to be sinless and that you are incapable of sinning?

I'm glad you quoted John, because he also said this:
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." (1John 1:8). In that verse, "we" refers to believers.

Please explain what that verse means.

It gets boring answering you when you reject scriptures and try and explain them away and don't answer questions yourself, you take the verse up with God

Christians have the gift of righteousness, and are the righteousness of God in Christ, Maybe you could try and explain that?

 

[Buzzard3]

That is a cult teaching, God's Grace Is Gods you shouldn't put restrictions on it

Please explain what the following verse means:
"a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

It gets boring answering you when you reject scriptures and try and explain them away and don't answer questions yourself, you take the verse up with God

Your interpretation of 1John 3:9 means John is clearly contradicting himself.

How do you reconcile these two verses?

1John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

1John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

 

[MaxPower]

Please explain what the following verse means:
"a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Your interpretation of 1John 3:9 means John is clearly contradicting himself.

How do you reconcile these two verses?

1John 1:8 "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."

1John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God."

Hebrews 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

I think your interpretation doesn't line up with scripture but what Does scripture say, and it's not what you are saying

I'm happy to explain the verses if you actually can answer questions and not just accuse, so let's see if you are being genuine

What do you think Is the Gospel message that saves?, How is someone saved, and what keeps them saved? Then I'm happy to answer your many questions

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@MaxPower

You said that you accepted my challenge of offering a word-for-word commentary on verses like 1 Timothy 5:8, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Jude 1:4. But you have not delivered. Until you do, then I am not going to keep doing a back and forth discussion with you.

From my perspective, it simply looks like you are avoiding so as to explain these verses because they refute your false belief.
I believe they are uncomfortable verses you must rush past or avoid when you read or study the Bible.
If this was not the case, you would have explained these verses already with no problems.

So keep your word.
If not, it's time to move on.

 

[Buzzard3]

From my perspective, it simply looks like you are avoiding so as to explain these verses because they refute your false belief.

I"ve noticed that he does the same thing with me - refuses to explain or ignores verses that contradict or don't fit his faulty doctrine. He's a cherry-picker ... and even then, the verses he picks he more often than not misinterprets.

 

[MaxPower]

I"ve noticed that he does the same thing with me - refuses to explain or ignores verses that contradict or don't fit his faulty doctrine. He's a cherry-picker ... and even then, the verses he picks he more often than not misinterprets.

I have noticed that you cherry pick a few verses, probably less than a handful that you post without understanding them you wont talk about them you ignor and fail to answer questions, not very honest in my opinion

The verse means what it says, Paul is teaching people how to come to Christ everyone has to realize they are a sinner as all have sinned,if they say they haven't they would be lying, but all have sinned so there goes our righteousness if anyone says they have no sin they would never need a savior, but Jesus came to save sinners

For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

So back to the test to see if you are honest, And i noticed you haven't tried to talk about any verses I post to you, Beware of the leaven of hypocrisy

What do you think Is the Gospel message that saves?, How is someone saved, and what keeps them saved?

 

[MaxPower]

You said that you accepted my challenge of offering a word-for-word commentary on verses like 1 Timothy 5:8, Romans 8:13, Galatians 6:8-9, 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Jude 1:4. But you have not delivered. Until you do, then I am not going to keep doing a back and forth discussion with you.

From my perspective, it simply looks like you are avoiding so as to explain these verses because they refute your false belief.
I believe they are uncomfortable verses you must rush past or avoid when you read or study the Bible.
If this was not the case, you would have explained these verses already with no problems.

So keep your word.
If not, it's time to move on.

I said "if you want to make it a challenge, i accept" so i challenged you, after i said that you said "Thank you for accepting the challenge. Please understand that if you have to explain away the verses in what they plainly say in English then that is not playing fair in my humble opinion."

You add your own terms after and as you go along Then you kept adding to over 43 verses you demanded I explain, That is silly, I said i would challenge you and I did and you hide and run, you don't like answer questions you don't like, So you expect me to explain over 50 verses while you choose what you answer is not playing fair in my opinion

I love all the bible none of it makes me uncomfortable, it is all true but look ill play your game, pick a verse any verse and I will explain it in English if that is what you really want me to do for you, but without the Holy Spirits help how would you understand them anyway, I think your tactic is to bombard people with so much copy and pasting that it would so much time to go through each point, and then you ignore whatever questions you feel like and change the topic, that's what people that are not being honest do, reminds me of the local group that knock on the door in this town you explain points to them and as soon as you get somewhere they change the topic, there tactic seams distraction and overwhelm with nonsense, when they cant it seams it changes to accusations, Can you guess who you sound like?

Try answer something simple "What saves you?" "And what keeps you saved?" can you at least answer those questions?

 

[Buzzard3]

What do you think Is the Gospel message that saves?, How is someone saved, and what keeps them saved? Then I'm happy to answer your many questions

We cannot earn salvation - neither through faith, nor by works of righteousness. We are saved only through God's mercy, aka grace. To obtain grace, we must be justified - initially by faith (Roman 3:28) and then by works (James 2:24). What is meant by "works" is obedience - ie, keeping God's commandments.

Having initially been justified by faith and works doesn't mean a believer gets an irrevocable ticket to Heaven, for a believer can become un-justified and fall from grace as a result of sin (disobedience) - as Paul warns in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 - or as a result of loss of faith (Luke 8:13).

So justification is an ongoing process that ends only at death, after which comes the Judgement.

The people of God - the "saints" - the justified - are those who have faith in Jesus and keep God's commandments (Rev 12:17, 14:12).

 

[MaxPower]

We cannot earn salvation - neither through faith, nor by works of righteousness. We are saved only through God's mercy, aka grace. To obtain grace, we must be justified - initially by faith (Roman 3:28) and then by works (James 2:24). What is meant by "works" is obedience - ie, keeping God's commandments.

Having initially been justified by faith and works doesn't mean a believer gets an irrevocable ticket to Heaven, for a believer can become un-justified and fall from grace as a result of sin (disobedience) - as Paul warns in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 - or as a result of loss of faith (Luke 8:13).

So justification is an ongoing process that ends only at death, after which comes the Judgement.

The people of God - the "saints" - the justified - are those who have faith in Jesus and keep God's commandments (Rev 12:17, 14:12).

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Here is from a dictionary, Justified = declared or made righteous in the sight of God.

You say to obtain grace you need to be justified by works then you say say The people of God who have faith in Jesus are Justified...What is it

Also you didn't mention in your post what saves


Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

You cannot be partially Justified you either are or are not

 

[MaxPower]

Having initially been justified by faith and works doesn't mean a believer gets an irrevocable ticket to Heaven, for a believer can become un-justified and fall from grace as a result of sin (disobedience) - as Paul warns in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 - or as a result of loss of faith (Luke 8:13).

I have shown you the verse three times now how long are you going to ignore it

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

And like you demand, show me a verse from scripture where someone came unjustified, it is actually an accusation against God do you realize? Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Hebrews 13:5 Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever

Do you think Jesus will lose someone the father gave him? do you think God would throw the holy spirit in hell...Of course not. you need start to think

 

[MaxPower]

or as a result of loss of faith (Luke 8:13).

Also you will have trouble with this verse,

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself. kjv

if we are faithless, he remains faithful, for he cannot disown himself. niv

if we are faithless, he remains faithful— for he cannot deny himself. esv

Jesus said you must be born again, he meant it, then God deals with you as his Child, if not you are none of his, its Gods way