Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[Bible Highlighter]

That is a very long answer to try bring bring salvation in through your own works, you are mixing sanctification with discipleship

Matthew 16:24-26
24 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

I suppose you could read this above passage as losing your earthly life by not being His disciple, but that is not consistent with the rest of Scripture. But you cannot twist the Parable of the Minas (Luke 19:11-27).

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

This is said in context to one of his ten servants.

The Parable of the Talents expresses a similar truth (Matthew 25:14-30).
The unprofitable servant was said to be cast into outer darkness where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Again, to read these two parables as only referring to discipleship alone with no threat to salvation would simply go beyond the plain child-like reading here.

Jesus is our Sanctification

1 Corinthians 1 :30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption

Keep reading. When you get to 1 Corinthians 5-6, it's not good.

Paul told the Corinthians to kick out the believer who was fornicating in the church. We are not fellowship with a brother who is in sin. Why? Because they are not saved. How so? 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 says,

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).

Plus, Christ said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). This was said in the context of bearing fruit (work). If we do not bear fruit, we will be cast forth as a branch to be burned (i.e., hell). Oh, and you cannot use 1 Corinthians 3 as an excuse to sin. This chapter does not teach that you will just lose rewards if you sin as long as you have a belief in Jesus as your Savior. Paul says the Corinthians are his work (1 Corinthians 9:1). The Corinthians were justifying the sins of strife and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3). These sins are condemned in Galatians 5:19-21. Meaning, that if one does these sins, they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The words "inherit the Kingdom" deal with salvation as mentioned in the sheep and goats Parable in Matthew 25:31-46. So in 1 Corinthians 3, Paul is saying that if the Corinthians justify these sins, they will be like hay or stubble, and they (Paul's work) will be burned up (in hell) and yet Paul will be saved through the fire despite them justifying sin, and being condemned.

But 1 John 1:7 (Which would be a part of our Sanctification) is dealing with our salvation.

It says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin (See: 1 John 1:7).

Walking in the light = Loving your brother - according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

In other words, you have to love your brother for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you from all sin.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith,

It's a walk and daily choice to abide in the Lord, and not a hostile takeover.
We are also told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, too (Philippians 2:12).
Paul says to prove that Christ is in you unless you are reprobate (2 Corinthians 13:5).
How do we know Christ abides in us?
If we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
The person who says they know the Lord, and yet they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4).

So yes. Christ can be the author and finisher of our faith, but this is a co-operation and not God forcing you to be saved against your will.

Remember, the Israelites started well in following God to escape Egypt, but then many of them fell away from the Lord later.

Christians are clean through the Word....

Only if we have the right kind of faith.
We access God's grace through faith (Romans 5:1-2).
But if one's faith is not the one described in the Bible like the faith described in Hebrews 11, then one is only fooling themselves.

Without Jesus we cant do anything

This is in context to fruit bearing (works), which does deal with our salvation.
As I said before, if you do not provide for your own, you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (1 Timothy 5:8).
Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever.

If you are saved what you can do is discipleship....

That's a smokescreen. Nobody will care to do anything for the Lord (or they will do a lot less) if they get their free get-of-hell card by simply having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation their whole life. For example: If the speed limit on the highway did not have any consequences for disobeying it, then folks would just recognize that such a law is useless or powerless and they would just speed.

Because you are saved, you have the gift of righteousness

Like all gifts in life that are free, they come with responsibilities in taking care of them.
In other words, if you received a free car as a gift, that does not mean you can run red lights and hit pedestrians.
You would not have access to your free gift anymore if you did that.

and the gift of eternal life, the gift is Jesus himself,

Eternal life is Jesus Christ.
A person has to abide in Christ to have eternal life (1 John 5:12).
If a person sins, whether by committing murder, theft, hate, etcetera, they will have to confess and forsake these sins to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:7).
If not, then that person is not going to make it into God's Kingdom (See: Revelation 22:14-15).
It's just that simple.

Christ in you

When we say that Christ is in us, and He is the hope of our glory, we cannot say that we are forever saved no matter how we live.
What fellowship does light have with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14).
Meaning, that without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

If you bring salvation in through your sanctification all you can try work for is to try get a new body and a place in heaven,

No, my friend. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says God has chosen you for salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth.

This is in context to doing righteousness.

Galatians 6:8-9, and Romans 8:13 also teach that Sanctification by the Spirit is dealing with salvation.

but the truth is you get those things because Jesus secured that for all the ones that that are his, purchased with his blood who because their sin has been paid for can enter heaven because they are made right with God

Again, 1 John 1:7 and then look at 1 John 2:9-11.

What you can do is show you are thankful, trying to work for something Jesus has already finished is a strange situation

When Jesus said it is finished, it does not mean you were saved before your having faith. The key question again is what does faith look like in the Bible? Is faith solely a belief alone always, or do we see faith also described as doing something, too? See again Hebrews 11. By faith, Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house. Imagine if Noah did nothing but believe. He would have perished in the flood if he had taken no action. So his faith is described as doing something and not just a belief alone. Yes, faith starts as a belief alone like our believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to be initially saved, but that is not the rest of our instructions in our faith.

You have to believe all of your New Testament by faith.

I hope this helps, and I look forward to your taking up my challenge.

May God's good ways shine upon you greatly this fine day that He has made.

 

[Buzzard3]

If you are saved what you can do is discipleship.... Because you are saved, you have the gift of righteousness and the gift of eternal life, the gift is Jesus himself, Christ in you

If you bring salvation in through your sanctification all you can try work for is to try get a new body and a place in heaven, but the truth is you get those things because Jesus secured that for all the ones that that are his, purchased with his blood who because their sin has been paid for can enter heaven because they are made right with God

1John 2:3-6 says a believer who doesn't keep God's commandments isn't "in" christ, doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar, and the truth" is not in him". In other words, such a believer is not saved.

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he- walked." (1John 2:3-6)

Paul did not preach salvation by faith alone - he warns believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God.

James said "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Salvation through faith alone is a false and unbiblical teaching.

 

[Buzzard3]

If you bring salvation in through your sanctification

There's no "If". 1Cor 6:11 describes the process of salvation: "you were WASHED [ie, baptized], you were SANCTIFIED [ie, keeping God's commandments], you were JUSTIFIED [by faith and works, see James 2:24] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

their sin has been paid for can enter heaven because they are made right with God

Which verse says all a believer's sin have been "paid for"?

If all a believer's sins have been "paid for", that means a believer can lead a life full of the worst kinds of sins and still be saved, does it not? If so, it would be difficult to think of a more absurd, unholy, dangerous doctrine.

What you can do is show you are thankful, trying to work for something Jesus has already finished is a strange situation

Which verse says a believer obeys God's commandments to "show you are thankful"?

If a believer doesn't show he is "thankful" and disobeys God’s commandments, he is still saved, right?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

1John 2:3-6 says a believer who doesn't keep God's commandments isn't "in" christ, doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar, and the truth" is not in him". In other words, such a believer is not saved.

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he- walked." (1John 2:3-6)

Paul did not preach salvation by faith alone - he warns believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God.

James said "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Salvation through faith alone is a false and unbiblical teaching.

Faith is like a two-sided coin (See here). It starts as a belief alone believing the saving gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (which says that we believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen on the third day). But faith does not remain the same (like at our Initial Salvation) because as you pointed out, faith without works is dead (James 2:24). But James 2:24 is talking about a faith lived out and not about how we are initially saved (Or how to GET SAVED). I believe James 2:24 is referring to the secondary aspect of salvation as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9. The context of James 2 talks about a faith lived out.

Anyway, we learn that Cornelius and his family were initially saved simply by believing the gospel message that Christ was hung on a tree (the cross), and was risen on the third day (Acts 10:39-40) whereby they were to believe in Him to receive the remission of sins (Acts 10:43). These were the words spoken by Peter to Cornelius and his family whereby they were initially saved (Acts 11:14). For as Cornelius and his household were hearing these words, the Holy Ghost fell upon them (Acts 10:44). The Holy Ghost is the down payment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14). Granted, a person can later grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30), and if they do so, God can turn to and become their enemy (Isaiah 63:10 NKJV) (Note: While the NKJV gives a clearer reading than the King James in this instance, I believe the KJB is a far more trustworthy translation by far. The NKJV has doctrinal problems because of its deceptive critical text renderings sprinkled within it).

In any event, faith is merely how we can access God's saving grace (See: Romans 5:1-2).

#1. Faith starts as a belief in the gospel message to be initially saved, but...
#2. Faith will continue with the work of faith, and being faithful, and living holy by the Spirit of God.

Some confuse this issue by falling into one wrong extreme (Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism), or they fall into the other wrong extreme (Works Alone Salvationism that does not include being saved by God's grace through believing in Jesus and the gospel message).

Catholics believe water baptism is not a work, but this is not consistent with Scripture in what it says about baptism (Seeing it is a type of circumcision). Baptism was also not what saved Cornelius and his household initially, either. The thief on the cross was also saved without water baptism, as well. But if the thief lived out his faith, he would have to do works of faith. Because a faith lived out must have works to be justified by (James 2:24). In other words, faith will start off as a belief alone (Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism) but it will not remain that way seeing that a faith lived out will include living holy, being fruitful, and love God and all others.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Faith is like a two-sided coin (See here). It starts as a belief alone believing the saving gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (which says that we believe that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen on the third day). But faith does not remain the same (like at our Initial Salvation) because as you pointed out, faith without works is dead (James 2:24). But James 2:24 is talking about a faith lived out and not about how we are initially saved (Or how to GET SAVED). I believe James 2:24 is referring to the secondary aspect of salvation as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9. The context of James 2 talks about a faith lived out.

Anyway, we learn that Cornelius and his family were initially saved simply by believing the gospel message that Christ was hung on a tree (the cross), and was risen on the third day (Acts 10:39-40) whereby they were to believe in Him to receive the remission of sins (Acts 10:43). These were the words spoken by Peter to Cornelius and his family whereby they were initially saved (Acts 11:14). For as Cornelius and his household were hearing these words, the Holy Ghost fell upon them (Acts 10:44). The Holy Ghost is the down payment of our inheritance (Ephesians 1:14). Granted, a person can later grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30), and if they do so, God can turn to and become their enemy (Isaiah 63:10 NKJV) (Note: While the NKJV gives a clearer reading than the King James in this instance, I believe the KJB is a far more trustworthy translation by far. The NKJV has doctrinal problems because of its deceptive critical text renderings sprinkled within it).

In any event, faith is merely how we can access God's saving grace (See: Romans 5:1-2).

#1. Faith starts as a belief in the gospel message to be initially saved, but...
#2. Faith will continue with the work of faith, and being faithful, and living holy by the Spirit of God.

Some confuse this issue by falling into one wrong extreme (Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationism), or they fall into the other wrong extreme (Works Alone Salvationism that does not include being saved by God's grace through believing in Jesus and the gospel message).

Catholics believe water baptism is not a work, but this is not consistent with Scripture in what it says about baptism (Seeing it is a type of circumcision). Baptism was also not what saved Cornelius and his household initially, either. The thief on the cross was also saved without water baptism, as well. But if the thief lived out his faith, he would have to do works of faith. Because a faith lived out must have works to be justified by (James 2:24). In other words, faith will start off as a belief alone (Temporal Belief Alone Salvationism) but it will not remain that way seeing that a faith lived out will include living holy, being fruitful, and love God and all others.

Where does faith originate?

 

[MaxPower]

Thank you for accepting the challenge. Please understand that if you have to explain away the verses in what they plainly say in English then that is not playing fair in my humble opinion. The idea is to read the Scriptures like a child and to believe what they say simply and plainly. Also, consider that when Paul spoke of God's grace through faith without works, Paul was fighting against the heresy of Circumcision Salvationism as mentioned in Acts chapter 15 (See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24). Meaning, if a person thought they had to GET saved initially by circumcision, they would be by-passing in being saved by God's grace through faith without works. Meaning, we do not get saved by circumcision (a work) in our Initial salvation (Which would be Works Alone Salvationism). We are to FIRST GET SAVED by God's grace through faith without works in our INITIAL SALVATION. So when Paul talks about how we are not saved by works, he is referring to the person trying to be saved solely by the works of the Laws of Moses Alone without God's grace via by thinking they had to first be saved by being circumcised. This is evident if you see Romans 2:25-29, Romans 3:1, Galatians 2:3-4, Galatians 5:2, etcetera.

I will endeavor to give a reply to what you said, as well.
But I hope you are up for my challenge. Include your response involving "Circumcision Salvationism," as well.
Ask yourself, did Paul ever speak against the teachings of Jesus in Luke 10:25-28, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:14-30, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62?

If he did, then what do you make of when Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing? (See: 1 Timothy 6:3-4). Also, consider that James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Meaning, that if a person does not agree with the words of Jesus in the verses I mentioned above, they are proud and God resists the proud, and they are not receiving grace.

Ask yourself: Was Paul more concerned primarily about the Old Law and Works Salvation without God’s grace?
Or was Paul against what Jesus’ taught?

Well it seams you just like to hear yourself talk im not explaining away 43 verses for you and then pitting paul against Jesus, What i can ask you is have you been born again, and do you have Jesus inside you? what I have noticed is you cannot talk about the new covenant, its all law and works, Do you understand the Law was given to show sin, you fall short, So you try harder to show you still sin without being able to talk about the sollution

 

[MaxPower]

1John 2:3-6 says a believer who doesn't keep God's commandments isn't "in" christ, doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar, and the truth" is not in him". In other words, such a believer is not saved.

"And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He who says “I know him” but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he- walked." (1John 2:3-6)

The Born again are in Christ, They are the righteousness of God in Christ, they have the gift of righteousness

Paul did not preach salvation by faith alone - he warns believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God.

James said "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone" (James 2:24).

Salvation through faith alone is a false and unbiblical teaching.

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[MaxPower]

There's no "If". 1Cor 6:11 describes the process of salvation: "you were WASHED [ie, baptized], you were SANCTIFIED [ie, keeping God's commandments], you were JUSTIFIED [by faith and works, see James 2:24] in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God."

It says you are, in the name of the Lord Jesus , You just altered and added the verse with your own opinion, that's not good

Which verse says all a believer's sin have been "paid for"?

If all a believer's sins have been "paid for", that means a believer can lead a life full of the worst kinds of sins and still be saved, does it not? If so, it would be difficult to think of a more absurd, unholy, dangerous doctrine.

Hebrews 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

One sacrifice for sins for ever

Is the basis of the new covenant in his blood, you need to learn about it, it leads to Love, if you want to sin if you can get away with it that's your nature and not a response I could comprehend

Which verse says a believer obeys God's commandments to "show you are thankful"?

If a believer doesn't show he is "thankful" and disobeys God’s commandments, he is still saved, right?

​

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

You are all about the law and sin, if you understood the Gospel message their is a solution, but wouldn't want to break the law and you would be thankful

The law was given to show sin, you need to deal with your sin

 

[MaxPower]

But you cannot twist the Parable of the Minas

You actually project yourself in your accusations, i didn't mention the parable of minas or circumcision, why do you leave circumcision off your list of laws, is that law not convenient for you

Paul told the Corinthians to kick out the believer who was fornicating in the church. We are not fellowship with a brother who is in sin. Why? Because they are not saved. How so?

Because a little leaven leavens the whole lump, only a catholic would push been kicked out of the church means you lost your salvation,

but no a Christians shouldn't fellowship with sin

Paul gives an example here "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

If he lost his life on earth his soul was still saved, it worked so well the man repented and was allowed back in the church, but the church isn't salvation

Plus, Christ said we can do nothing without Him (John 15:5). This was said in the context of bearing fruit (work). If we do not bear fruit, we will be cast forth as a branch to be burned (i.e., hell).

you added your own context, and you obviously don't understand gardening terms, read the verse again hell is not mentioned in your verse you have added it

Meaning, that if one does these sins, they will not inherit the Kingdom of God. The words "inherit the Kingdom" deal with salvation as mentioned in the sheep and goats Parable

The kingdom of God is within the born again, that's why Jesus said you must be born again, you shouldn't get your doctrine from parables when there are clear verses that explain things simply

Walking in the light = Loving your brother - according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

In other words, you have to love your brother for the blood of Jesus to continue to cleanse you from all sin.

Jesus is the light, the born again are children of the light, we love because he first loved us

How do we know Christ abides in us?
If we find that we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).

The law was given to show sin, so what commandments are you referring to, the fact you know that Jesus abides in you is if you have been born again

This is in context to fruit bearing (works), which does deal with our salvation.
As I said before, if you do not provide for your own, you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (1 Timothy 5:8).
Only a believer can be worse than an unbeliever.

You use that verse a lot, do you think it is referring to money?

That's a smokescreen. Nobody will care to do anything for the Lord (or they will do a lot less) if they get their free get-of-hell card by simply having a belief alone in Jesus for salvation their whole life.

That is one of the most horrible heartless responses i have ever heard in response to Jesus shedding his blood bearing our sin and laying his life down for us, if someones reaction was like that id expect them to be similar to the example of judas, i don't think those people get a get out of jail free card, but i cant see the heart just hear the words that come from their heart

Like all gifts in life that are free, they come with responsibilities in taking care of them.

You don't understand what a gift is especially when say the gift is righteousness, you cant earn righteousness and when all have sinned there goes your righteousness, but Jesus came to save sinners so their is hope

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Eternal life is Jesus Christ.
A person has to abide in Christ to have eternal life (1 John 5:12).
If a person sins, whether by committing murder, theft, hate, etcetera, they will have to confess and forsake these sins to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:7).
If not, then that person is not going to make it into God's Kingdom (See: Revelation 22:14-15).
It's just that simple.

Without Jesus you cant do anything, The kingdom of God is within you , that's why Jesus said you must be born again

This is in context to doing righteousness.

Again you cant do righteousness without the one who is righteous, so all thanks would go to him

When Jesus said it is finished, it does not mean you were saved before your having faith. The key question again is what does faith look like in the Bible? Is faith solely a belief alone always, or do we see faith also described as doing something, too? See again Hebrews 11. By faith, Noah prepared an ark to the saving of his house. Imagine if Noah did nothing but believe. He would have perished in the flood if he had taken no action. So his faith is described as doing something and not just a belief alone. Yes, faith starts as a belief alone like our believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 to be initially saved, but that is not the rest of our instructions in our faith.

You have to believe all of your New Testament by faith.

Who is doing nothing? you show me your faith by saying you don't really have salvation yet you have to work for it, so by your own admission you don't have it yet and hope to get it sometime in the future, Jesus said we can know and we can have it now, and you have to before you die, you tie salvation in with when you get things you worked for, your faith is in your works and your obedience to the law, and you don't mention the new covenant, the cross or what actually does save someone, So you are working towards what your faith is in, and its to be rewarded at the end, but when the law was given to show sin and the wages of sin is death what are you working for, it can only be for what you don't have or what you expect to get, and in your case it is a new body and a pass into heaven, your works cannot earn that, you have to believe all of your new testament and not stop before the cross

 

[MaxPower]

This is true in our Initial Salvation when we are first saved by God’s grace (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5) (Romans 4:3-5) (Romans 11:6), but this is not the case in Sanctification, which follows.

There is no such term as initial salvation, that is a term you have made up or a cult has taught you , it's not a term you can find in the bible,
, another problem is what meaning you have attached to sanctification. Do you think you make yourself right? Christians don't, and the law shows you cant, Christians need the gift of righteousness

But yes, there is a next step of salvation. It’s called Sanctification. Most Christians are either unaware of 2 Thessalonians 2:13, or they fight against what it plainly says.

you ignored my point that Jesus is our Sanctification so ill show you from scripture

1 Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

Also Hebrews10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith you should be able to see you can't sanctify yourself, when Jesus said without him we cant do anything you certainly can't sanctify yourself

So a big problem arises if you try and separate Jesus from what he has done is how you have to try and achieve it yourself, and if you try and achieve it through trying to obey laws when scripture shows that the law was given to show sin you will just be striving against sin by your own power and that can't save you, that is why there is no salvation in your message, you try and hope to get something at the end without knowing what you will get, the bible says we can know, and besides....how can someone not know if Christ is in them

So the secondary aspect of salvation is described here. God chooses you to salvation through Sanctification. Sanctification is to live holy according to the immediate context (See verse 12 for the polar opposite concept of this verse, and also see verses 15-16).

In addition, Paul says,
"For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).

In other words, if you live one way by living after the flesh (sin), you will die (die spiritually), but if you live another way by mortifying (Putting to death) the deeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Holy Spirit (Sanctification), you will live (live eternally).

You added spiritually die, whether in heaven or hell you will still be alive, but the wages of sin is death, and you can for sure cut your life short on earth

Actually, we are initially saved by believing the gospel message that includes believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and risen the third day for our salvation. So it is more than just believing in the cross to receive God’s grace. In our Initial Salvation, it can also include seeking forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ, as well (See: Romans 10:9, and Romans 10:13).

But God’s grace is not a license for immorality or lasciviousness (Jude 1:4).

How do you insert God’s grace is not a license for immorality or lasciviousness, it's like all you are obsessed with is sin, the law was given to show sin so all you can think of by obeying the law is sin sin sin, that's how it works it empowers sin when you try and be righteous self effort of trying to be right by the law, it's all you , and salvation is not by works

Right, being born again is not a process, but salvation is a process.

“…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1).

"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:”(Hebrews 12:14).

Christians have already put there faith in Jesus, God accepts their faith and they are born again new creations in Christ they have passed that, they can't deny the faith when they are already in the faith and their life is hid with Christ in God


Trying to strive to perfect yourself through the law is mentioned in Galatians, it is called being bewitched, fallen from grace, You are supposed to reckon yourself dead and alive in Christ, the biggest problem is the bewitchers that try and put Christians in that situation and why they try and separate Jesus from what he has done, can those people come out from the deception they are under


I could diagnose the problem if you could answer a few questions, What saves you? do you think Jesus can keep you saved?


1 Peter 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear


Is Jesus inside you?

In addition, we have to abide in Christ Jesus to have eternal life. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life and he that does not have the Son does not have life. How do you know you have Jesus Christ in your life? By finding that you are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). This is not the laws of Moses like keeping the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, and animal sacrifices. No, no. We are under the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

Under the commands that come from his followers?that is crazy, is that why you think you can make stuff up as you go

Notice it says he that has the son, That is the born again they already have Jesus inside them, and as Jesus is the light they are children of the light and are in the light

All you push is commandments and self effort can you say anything at all about the new covenant, i haven't seen anything

 

[MaxPower]

Aspects of Sanctification believers need to be aware of

1 Cor 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

Hebrews10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Jesus is our sanctification, the author and finisher of our faith, conformed to the image of his Son, Christ in you, the hope of glory

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Well it seams you just like to hear yourself talk

No, its called preaching the Word (2 Timothy 4:2).

im not explaining away 43 verses for you

Then you failed to be a good Berean.
They were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

and then pitting paul against Jesus,

No, they taught basically the same thing. But I know some Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists who attempt to explain how the words of Jesus no longer apply anymore.

What i can ask you is have you been born again,

Yes, I have been born again spiritually back in 1992.

and do you have Jesus inside you?

I would like to think so, but the real test for all of us in truly knowing Him is if we find we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
1 John 2:4 says the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.
It doesn’t seem like you believe 1 John 2:3-4.

what I have noticed is you cannot talk about the new covenant, its all law and works,

So you don’t believe in the commandment to believe in Jesus? (See: 1 John 3:23).
What about the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? (See: Romans 8:1-2).
Are you even aware of what this New Covenant Law is even talking about?

Do you understand the Law was given to show sin, you fall short,

Several things you are totally misunderstanding in your reading of Romans 3:20.

#1. New Covenant Believers are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal (Even though the Moral Law has carried over. This is also known as “the righteousness of the Law“ - See Romans 8:4, and compare it with Romans 13:8-10).

#2. Paul is alluding to his fight against the false heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism” (See again Acts 15, and see Galatians 5:2). See Romans 2:25-29, and Romans 3:1.

#3. Paul is referring to how to get Initially Saved. So when you read verses like Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23, it is referring to your past life of sin and it is not referring to your new life in Christ. So if you believe that Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 are talking about how the believer sins continually or occasionally as an inescapable fate, then you must apply Romans 3:11 to your life, too. Romans 3:11 says, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” Meaning, you would also have to claim that the present tense walk of the believer also has no understanding and they don’t seek after God. So if that is the case, you are not qualified to teach me anything. In other words, you have to accept all the verses in Romans 3 and not just cherry pick the ones you want to believe in.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You actually project yourself in your accusations, i didn't mention the parable of minas or circumcision,

I can bring up points that you do not refer to in order to refute your false belief.
You missed my points of why I brought up the Parable of the Minas and circumcision.

I brought up the Parable of the Minas to refute your false belief that you think discipleship is non-salvific.
I brought up circumcision because in Acts 15, it explains how there were Jews who were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be circumcised to be initially saved and to keep the 613 Laws of Moses (Which are a set of Laws we are not under - even though certain Morals Laws have been carried over into the New Covenant - like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, love God, love your neighbor, etcetera).

why do you leave circumcision off your list of laws, is that law not convenient for you

When looking at the Old Law one can categorize the Old Testament Mosaic Law (the 613 Laws of Moses) into a threefold division:

1. Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).
2. Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).
3. Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

Even before the written Law of Moses: We can see that there were Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.), and Ceremonial Laws (like: animal sacrifices).

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).​

​

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).​

​

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).​

​

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).​

​

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,​

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;​

22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?​

23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."​

(Colossians 2:20-23).​

​

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).​

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).​

​

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;​

10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).​

​

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.​

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).​

​

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).​

​

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;​

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).​

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.​

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).​

​

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;​

9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).​

​

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).​

​

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).​

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).​

​

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;​

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).​

​

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:​

8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?​

9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.​

10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.​

11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).​

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).​

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).​

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.​

33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.​

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.​

35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.​

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).​

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).​

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.​

​

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).​

​

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).​

In conclusion:

You sort of have to look at the Old Covenant (Old Testament) as one contract, and the New Covenant (New Testament) as another contract. It's kind of like a contract when you buy a house. If you did not like certain things in the contract, you could ask them to make some changes in the contract. If they agreed to the changes, you would then go by the new contract, and the old contract for the house would be discarded. There may be some similar things between the old contract, and the new contract, but you stick with the new contract in your dealing with buying the house. Meaning: This is why we seek to follow the New Covenant (New Testament) primarily even though there are certain laws that have carried over from the Old Covenant (Old Testament). We are clearly not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Born again are in Christ,

So then what do you do with 1 John 2:3-4?
Do you ignore it or seek to explain it away?

They are the righteousness of God in Christ, they have the gift of righteousness

Prove using Scripture that this gift of imputed righteousness does not mean one cannot condemn their soul to hell by sin.
When I read the Scriptures, I see both Jesus and Paul warning how sin will condemn our souls in the afterlife unless we confess and forsake such sins.

Imputed righteousness only works if you abide by the conditions of faith.
Faith starts off as a belief alone in Jesus and the gospel message, but faith does not remain as a belief alone.
Read Hebrews 11 to get an idea of what faith is like when it is lived out.

Imputed righteousness continues in 1 John 1:7. Are you meeting the condition of 1 John 1:7?

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Right, this is talking about our Initial Salvation or when we first GET SAVED.
How do we know? Well, Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (made alive). How many times were you quickened or made alive?

One time, right? This happens when a believer first accepts Christ as their Savior and they believe the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

God’s grace (JESUS) is also called a gift. How many times you receive a gift? Generally just one time, right? So again, this proves that this chapter is referring to how you GET SAVED and it is not talking about faith lived out like James does in James chapter 2.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Where does faith originate?

Jesus marveled at the centurion having great faith.
Jesus is one with the Father. So logic dictates that when God sets up the favorable conditions for man to either accept Him or reject Him, He is giving man free will (But under His calling, timing, and guidance). Accepting the Lord would be by faith in His Word (the Bible).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If he lost his life on earth his soul was still saved, it worked so well the man repented and was allowed back in the church, but the church isn't salvation

That’s not what the Bible teaches. He would have been lost and condemned to hell if he did not confess and forsake such sins.
What do you think 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 is talking about?

you added your own context, and you obviously don't understand gardening terms, read the verse again hell is not mentioned in your verse you have added it

Fire is a type of hell. Besides, I already showed you that 1 Corinthians 3:3 refers to the Corinthian's sins of strife and envy. In Galatians 5:19-21, it mentions these same sins of strife and envy and it says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Obviously one is going to hell if they are not inheriting the Kingdom of God.

The kingdom of God is within the born again, that's why Jesus said you must be born again, you shouldn't get your doctrine from parables when there are clear verses that explain things simply

The Kingdom of God is a lexical ambiguity.
Meaning, the phrase: “the Kingdom of God” can have two different meanings.
The context determines its use.
So it can refer to either Jesus (Matthew 12:28) or the actual place of God's Kingdom (Mark 14:25).

Anyway, I have to sleep.
So the rest of your replies will have to wait.
So I may reply later if I have time.

May the Lord's goodness shine upon you.

Side Note:

How is that word-for-word commentary on those verses I put forth to you coming along?

 

[bbbbbbb]

I can bring up points that you do not refer to in order to refute your false belief.
You missed my points of why I brought up the Parable of the Minas and circumcision.

I brought up the Parable of the Minas to refute your false belief that you think discipleship is non-salvific.
I brought up circumcision because in Acts 15, it explains how there were Jews who were trying to deceive Gentile Christians to be circumcised to be initially saved and to keep the 613 Laws of Moses (Which are a set of Laws we are not under - even though certain Morals Laws have been carried over into the New Covenant - like do not murder, do not steal, do not covet, love God, love your neighbor, etcetera).

When looking at the Old Law one can categorize the Old Testament Mosaic Law (the 613 Laws of Moses) into a threefold division:

1. Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).
2. Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).
3. Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

Even before the written Law of Moses: We can see that there were Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.), and Ceremonial Laws (like: animal sacrifices).

God's moral laws came into existence for man and would forever exist for him after the Fall of Adam and Eve (after they received the knowledge of good and evil). A Moral Law is any law telling you to do good without a specific law telling you that such a thing is so (See Romans 2:14). These moral laws existed before the Law of Moses.

In the New Covenant (or New Testament) these Moral Laws (like: “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” Do not covet,” “Do not commit adultery,” etc.) are repeated from the 613 laws within the Law of Moses and they still are in effect (i.e. They have been carried over into the New Testament). However, the Old Testament Law of Moses as a whole or package deal is no more (contractually speaking). Ceremonial Laws or commands: Things like the commands on circumcision, animal sacrifices, the Saturday Sabbath, dietary etc. are no longer binding under the New Covenant. This is because the written Law given to Israel is no longer in effect (as a whole). How so?

Here are a list of verses showing us the Old Law is no more:

"When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear." (Hebrews 8:13) (NLT).

”Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” (Romans 7:4).

"But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;" (Colossians 2:14).

20 "Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using; ) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh."
(Colossians 2:20-23).

“By abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the enmity [caused by] the Law with its decrees and ordinances [which He annulled]; that He from the two might create in Himself one new man [one new quality of humanity out of the two], so making peace.” (Ephesians 2:15) (AMPC).

"The old [former] rule [commandment; regulation] is now set aside [nullified; abolished], because it was weak and useless [ineffective]." (Hebrews 7:18) (EXB).

9 “Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.” (Hebrews 9:9-10).

16 “For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.” (Hebrews 9:16-17).

”And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament…” (Hebrews 9:15).

27 “And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it;
28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” (Matthew 26:27-28).

50 “Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; “ (Matthew 27:20-51).

8 “Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.” (Hebrews 10:8-9).

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:1).

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.” (Acts of the Apostles 15:5).

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment” (Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

28 "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well." (Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29).

7 "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious." (2 Corinthians 3:7-11).

“But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.” (2 Corinthians 3:14).

The Old Covenant says this about circumcision:

"And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant." (Genesis 17:14).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about circumcision:

"Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing." (Galatians 5:2).

The Old Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

32 "And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses." (Numbers 15:32-36).

Yet, the New Covenant says this about the Sabbath:

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" (Colossians 2:16).

So it appears things have changed.

This makes sense because Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law." (Hebrews 7:12).

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.” (John 1:17).

In conclusion:

You sort of have to look at the Old Covenant (Old Testament) as one contract, and the New Covenant (New Testament) as another contract. It's kind of like a contract when you buy a house. If you did not like certain things in the contract, you could ask them to make some changes in the contract. If they agreed to the changes, you would then go by the new contract, and the old contract for the house would be discarded. There may be some similar things between the old contract, and the new contract, but you stick with the new contract in your dealing with buying the house. Meaning: This is why we seek to follow the New Covenant (New Testament) primarily even though there are certain laws that have carried over from the Old Covenant (Old Testament). We are clearly not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands that come from Jesus and His followers.

There are various methods by which theologians have chosen to divide the Law as given by God in the Old Testament. Unfortunately, God did not neatly divide His commandments for us, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. In fact, the Law is always referred as being singular and not plural in the Bible. Thus, any division of the Law is, at best, extrabiblical, and, at worst, a means of aiding human pride in the mistaken notion that people are able to keep God's commandments (at least only which they have decided to obey).

The most common division is that between the ten commandments given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai and all of God's other commandments. To say the very least, the ten commandments hardly cover all forms of disobedience of mankind. For example, there is no prohibition against bestiality, incest, homosexuality, polygamy, or slavery in the ten commandments.

Another popular method is, as you have done, to divide the Law as follows:

1. Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).
2. Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).
3. Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

The conundrum with this form of division is the arbitrary classification of commandments which do not fit into any of the three categories. For example, the numerous dietary commandments are really not moral in nature nor ceremonial nor civil. Thus, they generally get ignored and tossed into the dustbin along with the commandments concerning leprosy of the house.

If you sincerely desire to keep God's Law, then you must obey all of His commandments and not just those you have arbitrarily chosen to obey.

I recommend that you start with actually and completely loving your neighbor precisely as you love yourself. When you have succeeded in that one then you can start working on truly loving God with all of your heart and soul.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are various methods by which theologians have chosen to divide the Law as given by God in the Old Testament. Unfortunately, God did not neatly divide His commandments for us, either in the Old Testament or the New Testament. In fact, the Law is always referred as being singular and not plural in the Bible. Thus, any division of the Law is, at best, extrabiblical, and, at worst, a means of aiding human pride in the mistaken notion that people are able to keep God's commandments (at least only which they have decided to obey).

The most common division is that between the ten commandments given by God to Moses on Mount Sinai and all of God's other commandments. To say the very least, the ten commandments hardly cover all forms of disobedience of mankind. For example, there is no prohibition against inappropriate behavior with animals, incest, homosexuality, polygamy, or slavery in the ten commandments.

Another popular method is, as you have done, to divide the Law as follows:

1. Moral Laws (Any Law pertaining to doing good as a part of nature).
2. Ceremonial Laws (Laws pertaining to ceremonies or rituals).
3. Civil Laws (Laws dealing with civil matters; Which includes Laws on carrying out justice).

The conundrum with this form of division is the arbitrary classification of commandments which do not fit into any of the three categories. For example, the numerous dietary commandments are really not moral in nature nor ceremonial nor civil. Thus, they generally get ignored and tossed into the dustbin along with the commandments concerning leprosy of the house.

If you sincerely desire to keep God's Law, then you must obey all of His commandments and not just those you have arbitrarily chosen to obey.

I recommend that you start with actually and completely loving your neighbor precisely as you love yourself. When you have succeeded in that one then you can start working on truly loving God with all of your heart and soul.

You think it is extra-biblical because you are unaware of what the Bible says on this matter.
Hebrews 7:12 tells us that the Law has changed.

Hebrews 7:12 says,​

​

"For the priesthood being changed,​

there is made of necessity a change also of the law."​

Besides, are you seeking for the temple to be rebuilt so you can sacrifice animals again according to the Law?
Do you keep all of the festivals in the Old Testament?

Also, try reading Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24. When you read these verses in the KJB, please get back to me in what they say.

 

[bbbbbbb]

You think it is extra-biblical because you are unaware of what the Bible says on this matter.
Hebrews 7:12 tells us that the Law has changed.

Hebrews 7:12 says,​

​

"For the priesthood being changed,​

there is made of necessity a change also of the law."​

Besides, are you seeking for the temple to be rebuilt so you can sacrifice animals again according to the Law?
Do you keep all of the festivals in the Old Testament?

Also, try reading Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, and Acts 15:24. When you read these verses in the KJB, please get back to me in what they say.

I am not under the Law in any way, shape, or form because Jesus Christ has completely fulfilled the demands of the Law having been crucified, dead, and buried He rose again for my justification.

You, however, seem to have put yourself under some of the commandments of God. Am I mistaken in my understanding?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

but no a Christians shouldn't fellowship with sin

The text says we are not to fellowship with a brother who is in sin blatantly.
If they were saved no matter what they did, then there would no reason to disfellowship with him.
Fellowship implies being a part of the body of Christ. If he is no longer a part of the body of Christ in fellowship, then they are outside the body and thus they are not saved. This applies to me, you, and or every other believer on the planet.

Paul gives an example here "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Right, notice the words "may" in the verse. You just read right past that word and you are unable to see what it truly says because of what popular teachers have fed you. In other words, they MAY be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus. Meaning, one has to endure to the end to be saved as Scripture says (Matthew 24:13). One has to work out their salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

If he lost his life on earth his soul was still saved, it worked so well the man repented and was allowed back in the church, but the church isn't salvation

No, Proverbs 28:13 says you have to confess and forsake sin to have mercy.
1 John 1:9 says if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. If you claim to know Jesus and you are not keeping His commandments, you are a liar, and the truth (JESUS - Jhn 14:6) is not in you.

Oh, and yes. Being a part of the church involves salvation.

Acts 20:28
"...the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers,to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased withhis own blood."

Jesus is the light, the born again are children of the light, we love because he first loved us

A believer cannot love or be a child of light if they also believe they can sin and still be saved on some level.
The wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23), unless one confess and forsakes sin (Proverbs 28:13, 1 John 1:9, 1 John 1:7).
God cannot agree with sin because He is holy. In order for your belief to work, God would have to agree that you can justify sin, and we know that is not possible because there are false believers who turned God's grace into lasciviousness or a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).
Paul asks the question, "Shall we continue in sin so that grace may abound? Paul's reply to that question is... "God forbid." (Romans 6:1-2).

, the fact you know that Jesus abides in you is if you have been born again

Nowhere does the Bible teach that being born again is a one time enforced guarantee that you are in Christ and saved for all eternity.
If you were even careful to pay attention to the words of both Jesus and Paul, they warn about how sin can destroy your soul in hell.

For Jesus: See Matthew 5:28-30, Luke 16:19-31, Matthew 25:31-46.
For Paul: See Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, 1 Timothy 5:8.

You use that verse a lot, do you think it is referring to money?

You mentioned John 15:5 about how we cannot do anything withou Christ, and I was replying to that briefly,
I brought up 1 Timothy 5:8 because you are in the mindset that you can just believe in Jesus and the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 alone and you are forever locked into going to heaven.

Neither John 15:5, or 1 Timothy 5:8 is dealing with money.

John 15 is teaching that you have to abide in the vine and produce good while in the vine.
If you abide in the vine and do not produce fruit, you will be like a branch that will be cut off and thrown into the fire (i.e. hell).
Matthew 25:14-30 (Parable of the Talents) illustrates the same idea but using different words. The unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. The servant (believer) who is faithful over a few things was told to enter the joy of their Lord.

I brought up 1 Timothy 5:8 because it is a verse that many who believe as you do either ignore and or twist to say something else.
Reading 1 Timothy 5:8 plainly like a child proves that if you do not provide for your own family (Which is a work), you have denied the faith, and you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever). This cannot be talking about a false believer because an unbeliever cannot be worse than unbeliever. That wouldn't make any sense. Only an unbeliever can be worse than an unbeliever.

That is one of the most horrible heartless responses i have ever heard in response to Jesus shedding his blood bearing our sin and laying his life down for us, if someones reaction was like that id expect them to be similar to the example of judas, i don't think those people get a get out of jail free card, but i cant see the heart just hear the words that come from their heart

But that describes what you just said in regards to your view of Romans 3. You imply that a believer will always be in some kind of sin on some level based on a false misinterpretation of Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23. You fail to grasp the greater context of what Paul is saying in Romans 3 in that...

#1. Paul is fighting against the false heresy of those who think they have to FIRST be saved by circumcision (a work) vs. being saved initially by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.​

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#2. Paul is talking about Iniital Salvation or how to GET SAVED (Which is by God's grace through faith in Jesus as our Savior and believing the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).​

You somehow have turned Romans 3 into an example of living out the faith like in James 2, when the context of that chapter does not support that in any way. Just read Romans 2:25-29, and Romans chapter 3 very slowly in the King James Bible in prayer. I like Biblehub because it has the chapter descriptions with the KJV. But you can use whatever site you prefer. I sometimes like to use the Defined King James Bible at times. In either case, before you reply, please read these verses slowly and ask God to enlighten your eyes while you read it. When you do so, get back to me.