Two Aspects of Salvation (Believers Need to Be Concerned With):

[Bible Highlighter]

I am not under the Law in any way, shape, or form because Jesus Christ has completely fulfilled the demands of the Law having been crucified, dead, and buried He rose again for my justification.

You, however, seem to have put yourself under some of the commandments of God. Am I mistaken in my understanding?

So you don't even need the commandment that says to believe on Jesus? (See: 1 John 3:23).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't understand what a gift is especially when say the gift is righteousness, you cant earn righteousness and when all have sinned there goes your righteousness, but Jesus came to save sinners so their is hope

Romans 4:4, and Works of Earning Money vs. Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift.

To him that works his reward is not of grace but it is of debt as if it was some kind of obligation like at a job whereby he works so as to earn money.

"Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him)." (Romans 4:4) (AMPC).​

So yes. I agree. Works Alone or trading dollars for hours like at a job involving salvation is wrong. Works Alone Salvationism (without God’s grace) is wrong because one has no grace or rest ever. This would purely be a works based system of salvation with no grace or mercy (like with Christ) if one messes up. A person’s good deeds have to outweigh their bad deeds.

But this is not the same thing as "Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift."

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:
If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:
If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

Anyways, in conclusion: We know that working like at a job (trading dollars for hours) is not the same as doing "Works of responsibility in owning a free gift." Paul is not talking about responsibility in possessing Jesus Christ (Who is our gift). Paul is talking about trying to earn your salvation by a system of "Works Salvationism Alone" that did not include God's grace at all. But men today confuse the issue to justify sin under God’s grace (Which is what Jude 1:4 warns against).

Side Note:

I believe you are ignoring the context of Ephesians 2, and Titus 3. They are both clearly referring to Initial Salvation.
Paul is primarily concerned with fighting against the heresy of those who thought they must FIRST be saved by being circumcised, which would mean they are making the Law or works the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation and faith.

You fail to recognize there are two aspects of salvation when you only see one because that is what you desire to be true because of the popular teachers you prefer on this matter. But let the Scriptures speak to you plainly and just believe them plainly.

 

[bbbbbbb]

So you don't even need the commandment that says to believe on Jesus? (See: 1 John 3:23).

The context of your earlier post was the Law. I repeat that I am not under the Law in any way, shape, or form because Jesus Christ has completely fulfilled the demands of the Law having been crucified, dead, and buried He rose again for my justification.

Have you placed yourself under some of the commandments of the Law? If so, which commandments have you chosen to obey and why? Or, better, why do you choose to ignore some of the other commandments in the Law?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The context of your earlier post was the Law. I repeat that I am not under the Law in any way, shape, or form because Jesus Christ has completely fulfilled the demands of the Law having been crucified, dead, and buried He rose again for my justification.

Have you placed yourself under some of the commandments of the Law? If so, which commandments have you chosen to obey and why? Or, better, why do you choose to ignore some of the other commandments in the Law?

You essentially said you are not under the Law, and you don’t have to do anything because Jesus did it all.
This implies you are not under any kind of Law.
I would say that we are under some form of Law because that is what the New Testament teaches.

For example:

1 Corinthians 9:21 says,
"To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."

In other words, Paul says he only appears to be without Law to those who are without Law; However, in reality, he is saying that he is not without the Law of God seeing he is under the Law of Christ.

So while we are not under the Old Law, we are under the New Covenant Law. This is why I brought up 1 John 3:23. Do you accept the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ?

 

[MaxPower]

No, its called preaching the Word (2 Timothy 4:2).

No you are adding a lot of your own bias, Jesus is the word, You can read scripture, if you compare with 1 peter 3:15 you can talk about the hope that is in you, because christian have that hope they talk about the word

Then you failed to be a good Berean.
They were more noble because they searched the Scriptures to see whether those things be so or not.

you like accusing, I have read and searched the Scriptures they led me to Jesus

No, they taught basically the same thing. But I know some Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists who attempt to explain how the words of Jesus no longer apply anymore.

No that is silly, if all the things Jesus said where written down there wouldn't be enough books, and Jesus said he had more to say but they couldn't bear it now, so what happened was Jesus from heaven choose Paul to take the Gospel message after the cross out to the whole world

Yes, I have been born again spiritually back in 1992.


I would like to think so, but the real test for all of us in truly knowing Him is if we find we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3).
1 John 2:4 says the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.
It doesn’t seem like you believe 1 John 2:3-4.

What do you think happened in 1992? what happened that made you think you where born again then because there is a major disconnect here because that is the real test and you would know, you cant not So what do you think happens when someone is born again?, But you ending with more accusations "it seams like you don't believe 1 john" now you are accusing me of breaking comandments? what ones or you just enjoy throwing it out there for fun?

So you don’t believe in the commandment to believe in Jesus? (See: 1 John 3:23).
What about the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus? (See: Romans 8:1-2).
Are you even aware of what this New Covenant Law is even talking about?

there you go again accuse accuse accuse , sin sin sin, Do you know what you are like to talk with, Have i ever encouraged breaking the Law? are you aware Christians are not under the law in the sense it cant define them as sinners, I love Gods Law I don't like what you try and do with it which seams to be to accuse

Several things you are totally misunderstanding in your reading of Romans 3:20.

#1. New Covenant Believers are not under the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal (Even though the Moral Law has carried over. This is also known as “the righteousness of the Law“ - See Romans 8:4, and compare it with Romans 13:8-10).

#2. Paul is alluding to his fight against the false heresy of “Circumcision Salvationism” (See again Acts 15, and see Galatians 5:2). See Romans 2:25-29, and Romans 3:1.

#3. Paul is referring to how to get Initially Saved. So when you read verses like Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23, it is referring to your past life of sin and it is not referring to your new life in Christ. So if you believe that Romans 3:10, and Romans 3:23 are talking about how the believer sins continually or occasionally as an inescapable fate, then you must apply Romans 3:11 to your life, too. Romans 3:11 says, “There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” Meaning, you would also have to claim that the present tense walk of the believer also has no understanding and they don’t seek after God. So if that is the case, you are not qualified to teach me anything. In other words, you have to accept all the verses in Romans 3 and not just cherry pick the ones you want to believe in.

Start with accusations before you even ask for a response, i think we are done, One that doesn't have Christ in them wouldn't have any hope, and they wouldn't be qualified to even speak to a Church, let alone be able to understand the Scriptures, I was prepared to talk to you but i don't think you are been honest and would rather presume and listen to yourself talk

 

[bbbbbbb]

You essentially said you are not under the Law, and you don’t have to do anything because Jesus did it all.
This implies you are not under any kind of Law.
I would say that we are under some form of Law because that is what the New Testament teaches.

For example:

1 Corinthians 9:21 says,
"To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law."

In other words, Paul says he only appears to be without Law to those who are without Law; However, in reality, he is saying that he is not without the Law of God seeing he is under the Law of Christ.

So while we are not under the Old Law, we are under the New Covenant Law. This is why I brought up 1 John 3:23. Do you accept the commandment to believe in Jesus Christ?

Do you conflate the Law of Moses with the commandments of Jesus Christ?

 

[MaxPower]

#2. Paul is alluding to

#3. Paul is referring to how to get Initially Saved.

And in defence of the accusations against Paul, Paul said

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And also said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

There is no "Initially" or "initial" mentioned in the Bible at all to do with anything. It is your addition and false Gospel

Scripture says there is Salvation in no other than Jesus

Christians are saved by believing in Jesus and their faith is in him because he is in them


2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3 :5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Only Jesus can save you

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you conflate the Law of Moses with the commandments of Jesus Christ?

Okay. You do not appear to understand what I said before. I will make one more attempt, and if you don’t get it, it’s time to move on. My whole point involving our discussion of the Law was that the 613 Laws of Moses are not a binding contract anymore for New Covenant believers. That said, there are certain Moral Laws laws (like loving God, loving your neighbor, not murdering, not coveting, not stealing, etc.) that have carried over into the New Covenant. Christians are not under things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, laws on animal sacrifices, etcetera.

But do not be deceived that there are no Laws under the New Covenant. There is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1-2), The Command to believe in the name of Jesus and to love one another (1 John 3:23), the command to repent (Acts 17:30), etcetera. Jesus even agreed with the lawyer that to love God and love your neighbor was a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:28-30). This agrees with what Paul taught in Galatians 6:8-9, and 1 Timothy 5:8.

Paul says if anyone does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Most in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp have been brainwashed that Jesus did it all and that means we do not have to do anything but believe in Jesus or the gospel message. So according to popular candy-coated Christianity: One's conduct does not matter in regards to entering God's Kingdom. But try reading Revelation 22:14-15 in the King James Bible sometime. Once you do, please get back to me in what you think it says.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Okay. You do not appear to understand what I said before. I will make one more attempt, and if you don’t get it, it’s time to move on. My whole point involving our discussion of the Law was that the 613 Laws of Moses are not a binding contract anymore for New Covenant believers. That said, there are certain Moral Laws laws (like loving God, loving your neighbor, not murdering, not coveting, not stealing, etc.) that have carried over into the New Covenant. Christians are not under things like the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, laws on animal sacrifices, etcetera.

But do not be deceived that there are no Laws under the New Covenant. There is the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1-2), The Command to believe in the name of Jesus and to love one another (1 John 3:23), the command to repent (Acts 17:30), etcetera. Jesus even agreed with the lawyer that to love God and love your neighbor was a part of inheriting eternal life (Luke 10:28-30). This agrees with what Paul taught in Galatians 6:8-9, and 1 Timothy 5:8.

Paul says if anyone does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Most in the Perpetual Belief Alone Camp have been brainwashed that Jesus did it all and that means we do not have to do anything but believe in Jesus or the gospel message. So according to popular candy-coated Christianity: One's conduct does not matter in regards to entering God's Kingdom. But try reading Revelation 22:14-15 in the King James Bible sometime. Once you do, please get back to me in what you think it says.

Please show me where, in the New Testament, I can find a list of the moral laws which have been retained from the Law.

Thank you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And in defence of the accusations against Paul, Paul said

Please stop. I made no such accusations against Paul as you falsely claim.
I am in 100% agreement with 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

#1. We need to receive the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.​

This is believing that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and risen on the third day for our salvation (According to the Scriptures).​

​

#2. We need to keep believing this gospel message upon which we stand.​

These are just two of the conditions as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
There are more conditions that you have to meet as a part of your faith to access God’s saving grace (See: Romans 5:1-2).

2 Thessalonians 2:13 tells us God has chosen us to salvation THROUGH the Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth.
This is not the gospel message. It is the CALL of the gospel (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:14).
Romans 8:13 essentially says if you live one way after the flesh, you will die, but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the power of the Holy Spirit, you will live (live eternally).
Galatians 6:8-9 says, "For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not."

Clearly there are more conditions to meet according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9.

You offered no word-for-word commentary on these verses as I asked you before.
You said you would take up this challenge, but it looks like an evasion of not wanting to deal with what the Bible actually says because you don't like what it says.

1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

And also said, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed."

The gospel is believing that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and risen on the third day for our salvation according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). I have heard others say that the gospel is holy living, and this is a false gospel. Holy living is a part of our Sanctification that is a CALL of the gospel according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, and 1 Thessalonians 4:3. Sanctification is a secondary aspect of salvation as a part of God's plan for us to enter His Kingdom.

There is no "Initially" or "initial" mentioned in the Bible at all to do with anything. It is your addition and false Gospel

It appears that you simply do not understand what "Initial Salvation" even means.
Let me break it down for you.
Was there ever a point in your life where you got saved?
Were you always saved even before you accepted Jesus as your Savior?
In other words, "Initial Salvation" is the initial or beginning point that you first got saved.
Unless you are a Universalist, most Christians believe that there was a day when they first got saved.
I was initially saved back in 1992. I was not saved before that point in time because I did not believe in Jesus as my Savior before that point in time. Do you now understand?

Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 talks about how we are to RECEIVE the gospel.
So it wasn't like you always believed the gospel even as an infant or something.

Scripture says there is Salvation in no other than Jesus

Yes, that is obvious to most Christians. Nowhere did I say otherwise.
However, what you don't understand is that Jesus saves us in both His redemptive work and mercy, AND in our Sanctification (Living a holy life). This involves our cooperation and it is not a hostile take over.

Christians are saved by believing in Jesus and their faith is in him because he is in them

And you are only painting one side of the story.
When you actually read and believe 1 John 2:3-4, you will get that such a thing is not the only condition we must meet.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

First, what works is Paul talking about?
Second, what false belief was Paul fighting against?

See Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, and Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:4.

Think. If a person falsely thought they had to be first saved by being saved by circumcision instead of having faith in Jesus and the gospel, they would be making circumcision (a work) as the entrance gate, and foundation of their salvation. So they would be trying to be saved by the false teaching of "Works ALONE Salvationism that did not include God's grace whatsoever." This is what you fail to understand.

Titus 3 :5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

You are not even paying attention to this verse. It says we are saved by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. How many times did that happen in your life? I believe this is about a believer's born-again experience. If you skip back and read the whole chapter, it is obvious Paul is teaching how one GETS SAVED or Initial Salvation.

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Right, and who was he talking to? He was telling somebody how to GET SAVED.
Also, to believe in Jesus is to believe in everything that He taught, said, and did, too.
So if Jesus warned you of how looking upon a woman in lust can destroy your soul in hell in Matthew 5:28-30, and you choose not to believe it, then that means you are not believing in the same Jesus of the Bible. Meaning, that you do not truly believe in Jesus but only an imaginary one (if such is the case).

Only Jesus can save you

Right, again, most Christians know this.
You are believing the popular candy-coated version of Christianity that teaches you can sin and still be saved on some level.
But in order for that kind of belief to work, God would have to agree with this plan of salvation and that would mean He would have to also agree with sin in order for it to work. However, God is holy and He cannot justify your sin. That's not how it works.

Believers have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Please show me where, in the New Testament, I can find a list of the moral laws which have been retained from the Law.

Thank you.

For starters, see Romans 13:8-10.

A moral law is anything you do that instinctually you know is good.
Turn on the news and many know murder, stealing, etcetera are things that are bad.
This is the Law that the Gentiles were able to keep without having the Law (See: Romans 2:14).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No, it is called preaching the Word (2 Timothy 4:2).

No you are adding a lot of your own bias,

Well, that is merely your opinion unless you can explain the verses I put forth to you. So far, you have not done that.
You just keep repeating your verses from your own bias, and I have explained them in light of Scripture.
But you have not replied back to my biblical points using the context or cross references to prove you are right. You just keep putting forth new verses that supports your own false belief.

Jesus is the word, You can read scripture, if you compare with 1 peter 3:15 you can talk about the hope that is in you, because christian have that hope they talk about the word

First, are you saying Jesus is Scripture? While I believe there is a Symbiotic Relationship between Jesus and the written Word, I do not believe they are one and the same.

Second, 1 Peter 3:15 says you are to sanctify the Lord God in your heart and this is done with meekness and fear. Do you fear God? It doesn't seem like that is possible with your current belief. Try reading 2 Corinthians 7:1. It says let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Why would we fear God?

1 Corinthians 9:27 says,
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway."

Anyway, I get why you brought up 1 Peter 3. At the end of that chapter, it talks about how we are being slanderously charged by others that we believe that we are to do evil so that good may come. You told me before that the man who committed fornication in the church in 1 Corinthians 5 was saved while he was in his fornication and kicked out of the church. This is doing evil. You are claiming that this person is saved despite his evil. You are saying that a person can do evil so that good may come (i.e., good being God's kingdom). Peter is saying in 1 Peter 3 that this is a slanderous charge. So your belief does not match up with what Peter says.

you like accusing, I have read and searched the Scriptures they led me to Jesus

It's not personal by any means. I don't know you from Adam. I am merely preaching the truth of God's Word.
The choice is up to you to accept that truth or not.
But I believe a person can accept a false Jesus.
Whether that is the case for you, I don't know.
I don't have all the facts of your life. But as it stands, your current belief in Jesus is not the same as Jesus described in the Bible because Jesus did not teach that you can sin and still be saved.

No that is silly, if all the things Jesus said where written down there wouldn't be enough books, and Jesus said he had more to say but they couldn't bear it now, so what happened was Jesus from heaven choose Paul to take the Gospel message after the cross out to the whole world

So you think Jesus and Paul taught differently?
Do you think Jesus taught another gospel radically different than the one Paul had?
What do you make of 1 Timothy 6:3-4?
It says if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine accordig to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing.

What do you think happened in 1992? what happened that made you think you where born again then because there is a major disconnect here because that is the real test and you would know, you cant not So what do you think happens when someone is born again?, But you ending with more accusations "it seams like you don't believe 1 john" now you are accusing me of breaking comandments? what ones or you just enjoy throwing it out there for fun?

Again, you stated that you can sin and still be saved based on what you thought happened involving the believer who fornicated in the church. You think he was saved even while in fornication. Yet, Jesus warns about how hell is a destination for the person who even looks upon a woman in lust. So you don't believe in the same Jesus of the Bible because you don't accept His words in Matthew 5:28-30. Again, Paul also warned against how sin can destroy your soul or not cause you to enter the Kingdom (See: Galatians 5:19-21, 1 Timothy 5:8).

there you go again accuse accuse accuse , sin sin sin, Do you know what you are like to talk with, Have i ever encouraged breaking the Law? are you aware Christians are not under the law in the sense it cant define them as sinners, I love Gods Law I don't like what you try and do with it which seams to be to accuse

You’re not under the 613 Laws of Moses. You don't have to sacrifice animals, keep the Sabbath, dietary laws, holy days, circumcision, etcetera. That is what Paul is talking about when he says you are not under the Law.
Paul is not saying that we can mow down a crowd of people with a machine gun and claim salvation all because of a belief alone in Jesus. Yes, I have talked with Christians who have admitted that they can do this (Both in person and online).
Again, you said to me before that the fornicating man who was kicked out of the church was saved in 1 Corinthians 5.

There is even a man named George Sodini. He murdered some people and took his own life thinking he was saved by a belief alone in Jesus. He was obviously turned God’s grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4).

Even his church knowing what he did said he was saved.
They also are turning God’s grace into a license for immorality.

Start with accusations before you even ask for a response, i think we are done, One that doesn't have Christ in them wouldn't have any hope, and they wouldn't be qualified to even speak to a Church, let alone be able to understand the Scriptures, I was prepared to talk to you but i don't think you are been honest and would rather presume and listen to yourself talk

This is a convenient way to not explain those verses that you said you were going to explain.

In either case, I love you in Jesus Christ even if we disagree strongly on the topics of sin and salvation.

May the Lord Jesus bless you and your family greatly.

Peace be unto you.

 

[Buzzard3]

Hebrews 10:12

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God

One sacrifice for sins for ever

Is the basis of the new covenant in his blood, you need to learn about it, it leads to Love, if you want to sin if you can get away with it that's your nature and not a response I could comprehend

If Jesus' sacrifice has paid for all your sins, why does Paul warn believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

 

[bbbbbbb]

For starters, see Romans 13:8-10.

A moral law is anything you do that instinctually you know is good.
Turn on the news and many know murder, stealing, etcetera are things that are bad.
This is the Law that the Gentiles were able to keep without having the Law (See: Romans 2:14).

Sadly, hundred of millions, if not billions, of people instinctually know that many things that moralistic Christians frown upon, are actually quite good. A benign example would be personal attire. It is hardly instinctual that men dress like men (i.e. wear pants) and that women dress like women (i.e. wear skirts and dresses). However, it is a very rare church today in the United States where that actually is practiced.

Likewise, in I Corinthians 11 Paul makes it quite clear that nature itself teaches that men ought to have short hair and women ought to have long hair. Moreover, it is equally instinctual, according to Paul, that men ought not to cover their heads and women ought to cover their heads.

Is this your practice and, if so, did it come to you instinctually?

 

[Buzzard3]

Is the basis of the new covenant in his blood, you need to learn about it, it leads to Love, if you want to sin if you can get away with it that's your nature and not a response I could comprehend

You didn't answer my question:

If all a believer's sins have been "paid for", that means a believer can lead a life full of the worst kinds of sins and still be saved, does it not?

 

[Buzzard3]

1 Thessalonians 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

You are all about the law and sin, if you understood the Gospel message their is a solution, but wouldn't want to break the law and you would be thankful

You didn't answer my question:

You said a believer shows he's "thankful" by obeying God's commandments. If a believer doesn't show he's "thankful" and disobeys God’s commandments, he is still saved, right?

The law was given to show sin, you need to deal with your sin

Why do believers have to "deal" with their sins if Jesus's sacrifice has "paid for" all their sins?

 

[MaxPower]

If Jesus' sacrifice has paid for all your sins, why does Paul warn believers in 1Cor 6:9-10 and Gal 5:19-21 that their sins can result in them not inheriting the kingdom of God?

Christians are not the unrighteous, They are the righteousness of God in Christ, they have the gift of righteousness

Why do you think unbelievers will be in hell, its because of their sin, see your list for examples

it goes on to say
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[MaxPower]

You didn't answer my question:

If all a believer's sins have been "paid for", that means a believer can lead a life full of the worst kinds of sins and still be saved, does it not?

First off if the believers sin has been paid for it, it is dealt with, it's is gone so they cannot sin anymore, they are given a new heart, Also God chastened his children,You also reap what you sow, People have tried and many have had to go home early, It comes down to who is accusing of Sin, Do you?

Paul never refers to Christians as sinners, and you shouldn't either

 

[MaxPower]

You said a believer shows he's "thankful" by obeying God's commandments. If a believer doesn't show he's "thankful" and disobeys God’s commandments, he is still saved, right?

No i didn't say that, I say in all things give thanks, If we are faithless God remains faithful, Christians are not under the law they are under grace

Why do believers have to "deal" with their sins if Jesus's sacrifice has "paid for" all their sins?

I didn't say anything like that, But if all you talk about is law and sin, you haven't used it as a schoolmaster to bring you to
Christ, If you are under the law it is because you are a sinner

 

[MaxPower]

Please stop. I made no such accusations against Paul as you falsely claim.
I am in 100% agreement with 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

#1. We need to receive the gospel message in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.This is believing that Christ died for our sins, was buried, and risen on the third day for our salvation (According to the Scriptures).#2. We need to keep believing this gospel message upon which we stand.
These are just two of the conditions as a part of God’s plan of salvation.
There are more conditions that you have to meet as a part of your faith to access God’s saving grace (See: Romans 5:1-2).

Yes you did and I showed you how, Also Notice you have never got past the first line, That Jesus died for our sins, You are trying to deal with yours on your own that's why you don't have Salvation yet and are trying to deal with your own sin, You haven't received the message and that's not what you stand on, you put it on getting something at the end you work for, like a upgrade you earned type strange situation

You offered no word-for-word commentary on these verses as I asked you before.
You said you would take up this challenge, but it looks like an evasion of not wanting to deal with what the Bible actually says because you don't like what it says.

That is your twist on what I said but I don't have to do that, its probably about the point with your denial of Jesus being our Santification, You not putting Salvation on Jesus Blood, You cant explain how you where born again Spiritually, You don't know if you have Christ, and you try explain away in your own words every bible verse I quote, add all your accusations i think it more resist than answer everything you demand at this point

The gospel is believing that Jesus died for your sins, was buried, and risen on the third day for our salvation according to the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). I have heard others say that the gospel is holy living, and this is a false gospel. Holy living is a part of our Sanctification that is a CALL of the gospel according to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, and 1 Thessalonians 4:3. Sanctification is a secondary aspect of salvation as a part of God's plan for us to enter His Kingdom.

Holy Living is because the Holy one is in you, and you can walk in the spirit in Faith, But you have to believe and receive the Gospel, not trip up on the first line

It appears that you simply do not understand what "Initial Salvation" even means.
Let me break it down for you.
Was there ever a point in your life where you got saved?
Were you always saved even before you accepted Jesus as your Savior?
In other words, "Initial Salvation" is the initial or beginning point that you first got saved.
Unless you are a Universalist, most Christians believe that there was a day when they first got saved.
I was initially saved back in 1992. I was not saved before that point in time because I did not believe in Jesus as my Savior before that point in time. Do you now understand?

It appears you make up your own definitions when you get stuck, There is no such thing as initial salvation it simply shows you don't understand what Salvation is, And I don't understand what you think happened to you in 1992 because you chose not to answer

Yes, that is obvious to most Christians. Nowhere did I say otherwise.
However, what you don't understand is that Jesus saves us in both His redemptive work and mercy, AND in our Sanctification (Living a holy life). This involves our cooperation and it is not a hostile take over.

I understand Jesus saves us, our cooperation could be believing by faith, that is not a hostile takeover, Without Jesus you cant do anything so any aspect of a holy life would be because of him

And you are only painting one side of the story.
When you actually read and believe 1 John 2:3-4, you will get that such a thing is not the only condition we must meet.

Would you be breaking the only condition we must meet if you reject the first line of Pauls Gospel message?

First, what works is Paul talking about?
Second, what false belief was Paul fighting against?

See Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, and Galatians 5:2, Galatians 5:4.

Think. If a person falsely thought they had to be first saved by being saved by circumcision instead of having faith in Jesus and the gospel, they would be making circumcision (a work) as the entrance gate, and foundation of their salvation. So they would be trying to be saved by the false teaching of "Works ALONE Salvationism that did not include God's grace whatsoever." This is what you fail to understand.

Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ

here is an example that he had to deal with that applies to you

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

You are not even paying attention to this verse. It says we are saved by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost. How many times did that happen in your life? I believe this is about a believer's born-again experience. If you skip back and read the whole chapter, it is obvious Paul is teaching how one GETS SAVED or Initial Salvation.

Yes you are not paying attention, When you get saved you get the Holy Ghost, that abides with you forever, will never leave or forsake you, when you receive that you would know, if not you are not a child of God its really that simple, that's why Jesus said you must be born again, you need to be joined spiritually with God

Right, and who was he talking to? He was telling somebody how to GET SAVED.
Also, to believe in Jesus is to believe in everything that He taught, said, and did, too.
So if Jesus warned you of how looking upon a woman in lust can destroy your soul in hell in Matthew 5:28-30, and you choose not to believe it, then that means you are not believing in the same Jesus of the Bible. Meaning, that you do not truly believe in Jesus but only an imaginary one (if such is the case).

The criteria is to believe, And the verses say that he saved us, Jesus was born under the law, speaking to jews under the law

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Jesus releases us from the curse of the law, If Christians are not under the law the law cannot define them as sinners, Do you think you are a jew under the law, what would be worse a gentile that thinks they are under the Law?

Right, again, most Christians know this.
You are believing the popular candy-coated version of Christianity that teaches you can sin and still be saved on some level.
But in order for that kind of belief to work, God would have to agree with this plan of salvation and that would mean He would have to also agree with sin in order for it to work. However, God is holy and He cannot justify your sin. That's not how it works.

Believers have to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7).

So its right and most believers know it ....but its popular candy-coated version of Christianity that teaches you can sin and still be saved on some level.?

That's strange have I ever said Believers can Sin? But you said "God is holy and He cannot justify your sin. That's not how it works." then turn around and put yourself under the law to try be better, The wages of sin is death, what are you working for?