Is believing/faith a work ?

[Halbhh]

If Salvation ever becomes conditioned upon something we must do then how is that not a meritorious work or deed on our part ?

(While that could be answered of course in human words, there is Someone Who knows far more than any of us, and so instead of me or my words, I want to always look to His words)

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. ...

... “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

...

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.


1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

 

[Brightfame52]

Maybe according to you, but not according to the NT, where you have no standing.

According to scripture, Salvation is by Grace without conditions.

 

[Brightfame52]

Through faith, through faith, through faith! Through = means “by way of,” “as a result of,” “a passage way,”

That is “you cannot get to the other side unless you go through this way first” - then the door is open. That’s what through means. Salvation by grace “through” “through” “through” faith!

I understand you are speaking of the spiritual faith we obtain, but we are required to exercise that faith. That’s why the scripture does not fail to say salvation by grace [“through faith”]

You have to be clear if you are going to try and explain away or confirm scripture. No one knows what you are saying because you are giving your opinions, thus neglecting to be a good steward of the Bible. The Bible tells us to study to show ourselves approved, therefore you must be able to stand on the word of God if you are going to teach, through using appropriate scriptures so that confusion is illuminated.

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works, you have fallen from grace.

 

[Brightfame52]

(While that could be answered of course in human words, there is Someone Who knows far more than any of us, and so instead of me or my words, I want to always look to His words)

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. ...

... “Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me."

...

28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”


12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.


1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.

 

[Halbhh]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.

As Christ said, we are only servants, and we should not demand special recognition for merely doing as a servant must.

"So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’ ”

I put this in red, because you might think it's my words. No, these are His Words.

Amen to anyone repeating that we are not saved by our works, even though we are literally told by God Himself to do them...and must.

Or there is far better wording than any from you or me.

" For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2 - New International Version

Made Alive in Christ - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one...

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Brightfame52]

As Christ said, we are only servants, and we should not demand special recognition for merely doing as a servant must.

"So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’ ”

I put this in red, because you might think it's my words. No, these are His Words.

Amen to anyone repeating that we are not saved by our works, even though we are literally told by God Himself to do them...and must.

Or there is far better wording than any from you or me.

" For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

Bible Gateway passage: Ephesians 2 - New International Version

Made Alive in Christ - As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one...

www.biblegateway.com

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.

 

[biblelesson]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.

Ok, are you a bot. Are you using AI. You are repeating the same thing.

 

[AbbaLove]

If one makes faith a condition for salvation, by default thats salvation by works, forget about salvation by grace.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)​

\​

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.
By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.​

​

You judge the work of a Christian, yet don't know whether or not that work was inspired by the Holy Spirit.​

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)​

​

 

[Halbhh]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.

That's right.
(if you mean we are saved only by Grace alone, and not by any works we ever do)

You have that right.
(if you mean we are saved only by Grace alone, and not by any works we ever do)

So, why didn't you say Amen (or 'that's right' etc.) to what I quoted?

Do you realize where those words came from above?

 

[AbbaLove]

Brightfame52 said:
If you condition salvation on anything you do, its salvation by works.​

Faith and works go together when both are inspired by the Lord God and His Holy Spirit ...

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)​

 

[GenemZ]

That poses a real conundrum. We all know that the demons believe. Their faith is infinitely more certain than mine, and probably yours. Obviously, however, their faith, such as it is, is far from sufficient to save them. Likewise, at the final judgement many will protest to Jesus that they believed and even performed miracles, such as casting out demons in His name. He, however, will tell them to depart from Him because why?

Demons do not have faith like we do. For they have seen what we are not yet able to see.

We need to see it in the Spirit, not by sight.

Our faith is believing what we can not see, yet seeing them as being real.

God honors that kind of faith. It reveals we are saved because that kind of faith is granted the believer by means of the Holy Spirit.

 

[GenemZ]

This sounds like Salvation by works. If you condition salvation on anything you do, any simple act you do, its salvation by works.

No one defines "works."

Works (plurality) was a religious system of requirements one must do to earn salvation.
It could vary according to what self righteous man was dictating the works one must do.
That was what was going on in Israel at the time Jesus appeared on earth...

People were always coming up to Jesus to ask him what work they should do to inherit eternal life
because the Pharisees had everyone being - "works for salvation" - obsessed.

Yet, Jesus did say that there is one single solitary work one should do to be saved. Not plural (works).

One single work only.

Here it is..

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works (plurality) God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work (singular) of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

​

John 6:28-29​

Believing in Jesus is the only work God seeks to find to save!

Not by works! One work alone! To "believe."

grace and peace ...............



.

 

[Brightfame52]

Ok, are you a bot. Are you using AI. You are repeating the same thing.

Im glad you noticed.

 

[Brightfame52]

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6)​

\​

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family.
By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.​

​

You judge the work of a Christian, yet don't know whether or not that work was inspired by the Holy Spirit.​

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. (James 2:17-26)​

​

Okay, but if you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works !

 

[Brightfame52]

That's right.
(if you mean we are saved only by Grace alone, and not by any works we ever do)

You have that right.
(if you mean we are saved only by Grace alone, and not by any works we ever do)

So, why didn't you say Amen (or 'that's right' etc.) to what I quoted?

Do you realize where those words came from above?

If you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works. I explain that from the thread title.

 

[Brightfame52]

No one defines "works."

Works (plurality) was a religious system of requirements one must do to earn salvation.
It could vary according to what self righteous man was dictating the works one must do.
That was what was going on in Israel at the time Jesus appeared on earth...

People were always coming up to Jesus to ask him what work they should do to inherit eternal life
because the Pharisees had everyone being - "works for salvation" - obsessed.

Yet, Jesus did say that there is one single solitary work one should do to be saved. Not plural (works).

One single work only.

Here it is..

Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works (plurality) God requires?”​

​

Jesus answered, “The work (singular) of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”​

​

John 6:28-29​

Believing in Jesus is the only work God seeks to find to save!

Not by works! One work alone! To "believe."

grace and peace ...............



.

If you condition salvation on anything you do, any simple act you do, its salvation by works.

 

[Clare73]

According to scripture, Salvation is by Grace without conditions.

Wrong. . .maybe according to you, but not according to the NT, where you have no standing.

You either believe the NT, or you don't.

You've made your choice and I've made mine.

The rest is between oneself and the Holy Spirit, where I am delighted to leave it.

Hope you are the same. . .

 

[Clare73]

Its 'by grace through faith you are saved' not by faith you are saved' and salvation by grace produces the faith, and yes if a person says their faith is the condition they met in order for God to save them, thats salvation by their works.

Nope. . .the order is grace-->faith-->saved (Eph 2:8-9).

According to Scripture salvation is by grace through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

Yours is a deliberate misrepresentation of Eph 2:8-9, which is between you and the Holy Spirit, not us, and where I am delighted to leave it. . .hope you are the same.

 

[John Mullally]

Okay, but if you condition salvation on your faith, its salvation by works !

In your ignorance to God's word, you base your argument upon conflating faith with works. However, Paul sharply contrasts the two, and shows that our faith is credited as righteousness. And we are to take God at His word as there is no higher authority.

Romans 4:4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness. NIV​

However, Jesus commends faith (NIV). If the Father was in some way causing these ones to believe, the commendation would go the Father instead of individuals.

1. Matthew 9:22 Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.”
2. Mark 2:5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
3. Mark 5:34 He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”
4. Mark 10:52 “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.
5. Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
6. Luke 8:48 Then he said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace.”
7. Luke 17:19 Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”
8. Luke 18:42 Jesus said to him, “Receive your sight; your faith has healed you.”

"Works” speak of our own merit, while faith in someone else to save us, speaks of the merit of the one in whom we are placing our trust. So, when we place our faith in Christ, we are not adding to our own merits. We are not building up our own value. Faith in Christ, instead, points to someone else’s merits, who saves us solely by His choice to show grace toward anyone who puts their trust in Him.

God saves us apart from the works of the Law, and on the basis of His own purpose and grace. If one does not conflate man’s free choice to repent with God’s free choice to save the repentant, then this is not an issue that needs to be reconciled. Humbly admitting you need salvation is not equal to saving yourself. Confessing your sin, even if done freely, does not earn or merit forgiveness for that sin, otherwise, there would have been no need for the cross. Even though Abraham believed in God, he still had a debt that he could not pay. God graciously chose to pay that debt through the sacrifice of His Son, without which no one would be saved.

Calvinists commonly conflate faith with works: From the Calvinistic perspective, anyone that teaches that salvation comes about by anything other than an “Irresistible Grace,” necessarily makes salvation into a works-based process, because (as it is reasoned) once you incorporate any act of the human will—even as little as a person’s submission in passive non-resistance—what is left is some element of human contribution in the process. So, when Calvinists say that “salvation is of the Lord” (Jonah 2:9), what they really mean is that God does everything in salvation, including the act of faith, on behalf of the person, by overcoming their resistance through an irresistible gift of pre-faith regeneration. In other words, Calvinists believe that faith becomes a “work” whenever we come to think of faith as something that we do ourselves, absent of an Irresistible Grace. This means that in Calvinism, faith without Irresistible Grace = works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Wrong. . .maybe according to you, but not according to the NT, where you have no standing.

You either believe the NT, or you don't.

You've made your choice and I've made mine.

The rest is between oneself and the Holy Spirit, where I am delighted to leave it.

Hope you are the same. . .

Yes Salvation is by Sovereign Grace apart from conditions, if you condition salvation on your faith, it becomes works, thats apostacy.