Is believing/faith a work ?

[biblelesson]

To me it is remarkable the confusion that comes by the rules people make concerning the mechanics of the works of the Spirit of God. In John 3 Jesus mentions the unaccountability of the Spirit —it goes where it will, and does what it does. In the Old Testament we see Saul caught up in a group of prophets, and there is even an account of an apparently pagan prophet who finds himself encumbered to tell only the truth concerning God. There are mentioned in the New Testament people who are not, apparently, disciples of Jesus, yet they are casting out demons.

Your post is great. Scriptures would be nice to confirm God’s word. You are speaking about the born again Spirit,
John 3:8 KJV
“The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.”

Anything done by the Spirit in us cannot be considered works at all. If the work of the Spirit is so vehemently denied, then that would be blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, and a spirit of Anti Christ. The same as what the Pharisees did.
Matthew 12:32 KJV
“And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.” Fortunately in Christ, we can be forgiven in our ignorance.
This is very serious! What people don’t realize is when the work of the Holy Spirit is denied in a Christian, they stand in the shoes of the Pharisees. Because true Christians are given the same Spirit as Christ - to perform the same miracles, which are signs that follow those that believe,
Mark 16:16-18 KJV
16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”
18 “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Baptism is an an act done to show our repentance and faith where we are joined into the death and burial of Jesus Christ for our salvation.

In regard to baptism, if the word “works” is being used the same as an “act” to show our faith and/or belief, then it’s appropriately used. This is the works James speaks of: For example, if you say you are a fair person, then why treat one person better than another in the same situation when the Bible tells us not to be particular of persons, which further explains the type of “works” based on the type of faith a person has as explained by James,
James 2:1-4 KJV
1 “My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.”
2 “For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;”
3 “And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:”
4 “Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?”

People are not thinking and are not discerning the scripture properly. Because, James “works” is not speaking about “works of the law” which is the “works of the flesh” such as keeping the sabbath, not eating pork, or any of the Mosiac laws. Just because you see the word “works” does not mean that the only meaning that word is attributed to is “works of the law/works of the flesh.”

We must be very carful and try and understand scripture because it comes down to this,
1 John 5:16 KJV
“If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.”

 

[Brightfame52]

Believing faith comes from God by the power of the Holy Spirit. Therefore it is a work that God does in the penitent person, not a work that the penitent person needs to do to gain salvation.

If you condition Salvation on your faith, then by default it becomes Salvation by your works, that makes void Salvation by Grace.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you condition Salvation on your faith, then by default it becomes Salvation by your works, that makes void Salvation by Grace.

But I am not saved by my faith. Here's what the Scripture says: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but I live by the faith of the Son of God." Therefore my salvation is through Chris's faith that He has bestowed on me in order to enable me to believe the Gospel and to receive Christ as my Saviour.

But then, I actually read and study the Bible so I know what it says about faith and salvation.

 

[biblelesson]

If you condition Salvation on your faith, then by default it becomes Salvation by your works, that makes void Salvation by Grace.

Your so called logic is way off base!

Jesus died over 2000 years ago on the cross offering salvation to the world as our sacrifice for sin. Based on Jesus dying to be our sacrifice, now, each individual person must believe in Jesus, that is exercising faith, to receive that salvation. This scriptures gives clear explanation, as well as many other scriptures.
Mark 16:16-18 KJV
16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”
18 “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Salvation offered to “an individual” is based on faith as Jesus says. Those who don’t believe Jesus words will be damed as Jesus says!

Salvation by Grace is Jesus dying to offer us everlasting life through forgiveness of our sins. It’s Jesus who gave of His body and blood whereby salvation became a thing of grace. We are ushered into that grace when we believe on the one who died for us.

You should study more because you don’t understand the full implication of the grace offered based that “faith.” We are made righteous in Christ when we exercise the faith of Abraham, that faith being our honest, repentant heart, and show of faith through baptism, whereby we receive the Holy Spirit.

You are speaking without knowledge!

 

[Brightfame52]

But I am not saved by my faith. Here's what the Scripture says: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but I live by the faith of the Son of God." Therefore my salvation is through Chris's faith that He has bestowed on me in order to enable me to believe the Gospel and to receive Christ as my Saviour.

But then, I actually read and study the Bible so I know what it says about faith and salvation.

That all sounds good friend, but what Im saying is if we condition salvation on our faith, our believing, that turns into works. If that doesnt apply to you, very good.

 

[Brightfame52]

Your so called logic is way off base!

Jesus died over 2000 years ago on the cross offering salvation to the world as our sacrifice for sin. Based on Jesus dying to be our sacrifice, now, each individual person must believe in Jesus, that is exercising faith, to receive that salvation. This scriptures gives clear explanation, as well as many other scriptures.
Mark 16:16-18 KJV
16 “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;”
18 “They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”

Salvation offered to “an individual” is based on faith as Jesus says. Those who don’t believe Jesus words will be damed as Jesus says!

Salvation by Grace is Jesus dying to offer us everlasting life through forgiveness of our sins. It’s Jesus who gave of His body and blood whereby salvation became a thing of grace. We are ushered into that grace when we believe on the one who died for us.

You should study more because you don’t understand the full implication of the grace offered based that “faith.” We are made righteous in Christ when we exercise the faith of Abraham, that faith being our honest, repentant heart, and show of faith through baptism, whereby we receive the Holy Spirit.

You are speaking without knowledge!

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works.

 

[biblelesson]

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works.

We are not talking about what we “do” in the form of “works” as it relates to the works of the law as a condition for salvation, which would not be grace.

We are talking about God’s condition to “receive His grace.” God set the parameters.

The the way you are explaining salvation based on grace is all you have to do is say, “oh yea, I believe Jesus exist, and nothing else, then boom, you are saved.

If this is not what you are saying, then how does one receive salvation in Jesus based on God’s grace?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That all sounds good friend, but what I'm saying is if we condition salvation on our faith, our believing, that turns into works. If that doesn't apply to you, very good.

By grace I am saved through faith, not of myself, but is the gift of God, not of works lest any should boast.

I believe the Bible, which supersedes any other notions or theories.

 

[Mark Quayle]

If one makes faith a condition for salvation, by default thats salvation by works, forget about salvation by grace.

Salvation is by grace through faith. And, "by faith you are saved". But you are right. It is not a condition of salvation. It is what produces the salvation: Thus, if the faith is generated by the person, and not by God, it is by works, and not of grace.

 

[Mark Quayle]

But I am not saved by my faith. Here's what the Scripture says: "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but I live by the faith of the Son of God." Therefore my salvation is through Chris's faith that He has bestowed on me in order to enable me to believe the Gospel and to receive Christ as my Saviour.

But then, I actually read and study the Bible so I know what it says about faith and salvation.

You may not realize this, but I think you are in agreement with @Brightfame52 here. Different ways of coming at it. You would agree the Bible is true when it says that salvation is by grace through faith, and @Brightfame52 agrees. Faith is not a condition one must attain in order to be saved. It is a gift of God, performed by the Spirit of God within a person. In that sense it is not even that person's faith, but is called that because it is done in him.

 

[John Mullally]

—Not to mention the logical impossibility for the dead to do an alive thing.

Dead is an overloaded word meaning there are many ways to interpret it. Is it Lazarus dead (physically dead)? Or is it relationally dead (such as the dead to me dead in the parable of the prodigal son before he returned)? What is the purpose of spreading the Calvinist Gospel of fatalism - as if that were true everything was long ago decided and all is vanity? Que sera, sera.

fatalism​

noun​

fa·tal·ism ˈfā-tə-ˌli-zəm​

​

: a doctrine that events are fixed in advance so that human beings are powerless to change them​

also : a belief in or attitude determined by this doctrine​

The Bible clearly teaches God's universal love and provision for all men as there are many NT passages that reference terms translated as "world", "everyone", "all men", "all people", and "all" which mean "all people without exception" in regards to God's love and provision. I am using the NIV.

1. 1 Timothy 4:10 God is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.
2. 1 Timothy 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.
3. 1 John 2:2 He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
4. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
5. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
6. John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
7. 1 Corinthians 15:21 For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. 22 For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
8. Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
9. Romans 5:18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
10. Titus 2:11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.,
11. Hebrews 2:9 But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.
12. 2 Corinthians 5:19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Thus, if the faith is generated by the person, and not by God, it is by works, and not of grace.

Not true.

For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. (1 Co 1:21)​

God created the paradigm Himself. It pleased Him to save those who believe the "foolishness of the message" that Christ was crucified for our sins. He would not have created this paradigm and then made it a "work" to believe, disqualifying anyone who put their trust in Him.

Besides, Scripture clearly contrasts "works" and "faith" as two different things. I suppose I could go find more than a dozen instances of this contrast. Your argument conflates the two, and would make them the same thing.

Furthermore, Scripture is clear that people have the ability to trust God. For instance, this famous passage says plainly that it is not too hard to believe because it is near to you (right there in your heart).

8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.” (Ro 10:8–13)​

And it takes a great deal of cynicism to believe that God would say "whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved" if the invitation to believe was closed to everyone except those He predetermined would believe.

And that would make a mockery of our efforts to convince the lost to believe:

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. (Jn 20:30–31)​

 

[GenemZ]

If Salvation ever becomes conditioned upon something we must do then how is that not a meritorious work or deed on our part ? If thats the case, how can it be of Grace ? For Paul writes Rom 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work

Some teach that ones faith is the condition they must meet for salvation, but if thats true, which its not, then salvation is by our works.

Faith is a simple act of accepting what one hears from the Word of God as being true!


"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."
Romans 10:17

 

[John Mullally]

If you condition Salvation on your faith, then by default it becomes Salvation by your works, that makes void Salvation by Grace.

Faith and trust in God requires willing human consent, or else it’s no longer faith and trust that we are talking about. Even if you think God pushed faith onto you, you have to willing consent.

Your argument relies on a pernicious sleight of hand categorizing personal faith as being a work knowing that scriptures says that no one is saved by works. But personal faith is not a work as Paul contrasts the two (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16; 3:2, 5, 10). Jesus valued people's faith as he said "Your faith has made you well" (Mark 5:24). In addition, Jesus did not discount people making conscious choices, which faith is, as he taught that people should count the costs of discipleship.

Peter taught that if people did something (repent and be baptized) they would be saved (as that included in remission of sins and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit) in Acts 2.

Acts 2:36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.” 37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” 38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.​

 

[bbbbbbb]

Faith is a simple act of accepting what one hears from the Word of God as being true!


"Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ."
Romans 10:17

That poses a real conundrum. We all know that the demons believe. Their faith is infinitely more certain than mine, and probably yours. Obviously, however, their faith, such as it is, is far from sufficient to save them. Likewise, at the final judgement many will protest to Jesus that they believed and even performed miracles, such as casting out demons in His name. He, however, will tell them to depart from Him because why?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

That poses a real conundrum. We all know that the demons believe. Their faith is infinitely more certain than mine, and probably yours. Obviously, however, their faith, such as it is, is far from sufficient to save them. Likewise, at the final judgement many will protest to Jesus that they believed and even performed miracles, such as casting out demons in His name. He, however, will tell them to depart from Him because why?

Demons believe the Gospel and that is what makes them terrified, because they know that the lake of fire is in their future. But they don't have the saving faith that enables them to repent and put their trust in Christ to be their Saviour from sin. We can't compare the type of belief that demons have and the trust that believers have in Christ.

Those ones at the final judgment are trying to show God what they have done. There is no acknowledgement of their trust in what Jesus has done for them. The true believer would see that everything they have done in the name of Christ results in them still being unprofitable servants. Actually genuine believers will never come to the judgment because they have already judged themselves as lost sinners, and the Scripture says that those who judge themselves will not be judged. Therefore the judgment will be reserved for the unsaved and religious hypocrites.

The scary thing is that many in the heretical prosperity and "name it and claim it" modern Charismatic movement are casting out demons, giving prophecies (that don't come to pass), and claiming great signs and wonders. It has been seen that they never preach the Gospel, and they biff anyone who tries to give the Gospel out of their meetings by getting security to frog march them to the door. So I won't be surprised if many of these name it and claim it type of Charismatics will find themselves before Christ at the judgment and will have the Lord say to them, "I never knew you. Depart from Me you workers of iniquity."

I asked the Lord once what qualification have that would allow God to let me into His heaven. I would be saying to Him when I stand before Him that I am trusting in what Jesus did on the Cross for me. The Lord said, "That's all you need, and by the way, that's all you ever needed." Therefore if there is any good that I have done in my life and in the world, it has been what He has enabled me to do by the guidance and enablement of the Holy Spirit.

So, because I have acknowledged that I do have sin, and have confessed it to the Lord, and been forgiven and cleansed from all unrighteousness, then I have the confidence that I won't find myself at the judgment.

 

[John Mullally]

Thus, if the faith is generated by the person, and not by God, it is by works, and not of grace.

Man's faith in anything requires his consent. During Jesus's ministry, He encouraged such consent and he commended people for their faith. If God pushed faith onto people, that commendation makes no sense. No one should be commended for winning the Calvinist Unconditional Election spiritual lottery.

Calvinism’s elect are said to be “dead rebel sinners” and “total haters of God” who don’t want God (like the rest of humanity), but God (according to Calvinism) regenerates them anyway, against their will (via pre-faith regeneration) like a date-rape drug. But Calvinism’s non-elect are said to be predestined to Hell “for God’s glory.” Here is a quote from Calvin.

 

[John Mullally]

Thus, if the faith is generated by the person, and not by God, it is by works, and not of grace.

Man's faith in anything requires man's consent. During Jesus's ministry, He commended people for their faith. If God pushed faith onto people, that commendation makes absolutely no sense.

Calvinism’s elect are said to be “dead rebel sinners” and “total haters of God” who don’t want God (like the rest of humanity), but God (according to Calvinism) regenerates them anyway, against their will (via pre-faith regeneration) like a date-rape drug. But Calvinism’s non-elect are said to be predestined to Hell “for God’s glory.” Calvin (see quote below) teaches that our will and actions are controlled by God. That is not Bible, unless you want to count 1 Timothy 4:1.

“We hold that God is the disposer and ruler of all things, –that from the remotest eternity, according to his own wisdom, He decreed what he was to do, and now by his power executes what he decreed. Hence we maintain, that by His providence, not heaven and earth and inanimate creatures only, but also the counsels and wills of men are so governed as to move exactly in the course which he has destined.” (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 1, Chapter 16, Paragraph 8)​

 

[Brightfame52]

We are not talking about what we “do” in the form of “works” as it relates to the works of the law as a condition for salvation, which would not be grace.

We are talking about God’s condition to “receive His grace.” God set the parameters.

The the way you are explaining salvation based on grace is all you have to do is say, “oh yea, I believe Jesus exist, and nothing else, then boom, you are saved.

If this is not what you are saying, then how does one receive salvation in Jesus based on God’s grace?

This is what I am saying, loud and clear, and read the thread for more clarification:

If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Salvation is by grace through faith. And, "by faith you are saved". But you are right. It is not a condition of salvation. It is what produces the salvation: Thus, if the faith is generated by the person, and not by God, it is by works, and not of grace.

Its 'by grace through faith you are saved' not by faith you are saved' and salvation by grace produces the faith, and yes if a person says their faith is the condition they met in order for God to save them, thats salvation by their works.