The Ten vs the 603

[Gary K]

Romans 2:14-16 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Adultery was prohibited by Natural Law before the 10 Commandments were given to the Israelites.

Genesis 20:1-7 Abraham traveled from there toward the land of the arid southern plain, and he settled as an immigrant in Gerar, between Kadesh and Shur. 2 Abraham said of his wife Sarah, “She’s my sister.” So King Abimelech of Gerar took her into his household. 3 But God appeared to Abimelech that night in a dream and said to him, “You are as good as dead because of this woman you have taken. She is a married woman.”

4 Now Abimelech hadn’t gone near her, and he said, “Lord, will you really put an innocent nation to death? 5 Didn’t he say to me, ‘She’s my sister,’ and didn’t she—even she—say, ‘He’s my brother’? My intentions were pure, and I acted innocently when I did this.” 6 God said to him in the dream, “I know that your intentions were pure when you did this. In fact, I kept you from sinning against me. That’s why I didn’t allow you to touch her. 7 Now return the man’s wife. He’s a prophet; he will pray for you so you may live. But if you don’t return her, know that you and everyone with you will die!”

Murder was prohibited by Natural Law. Consequences for Murder before the first covenant was put into force:

Genesis 4:8-11 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” When they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 The Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

Cain said, “I don’t know. Am I my brother’s guardian?”

10 The Lord said, “What did you do? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 You are now cursed from the ground that opened its mouth to take your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you farm the fertile land, it will no longer grow anything for you, and you will become a roving nomad on the earth.”

I didn't ask your opinion on that I asked where the Natural law is found in scripture. Where is the term defined: Natural Law is blah, blah, blah. You and I know there is no such scripture. It's a term you, or someone else, invented.

God's law is as eternal as He is. Jesus said:

Matthew 7: 17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed away yet? Has everything in the Bible been fulfilled yet?

 

[HIM]

I didn't ask your opinion on that I asked where the Natural law is found in scripture. Where is the term defined: Natural Law is blah, blah, blah. You and I know there is no such scripture. It's a term you, or someone else, invented.

God's law is as eternal as He is. Jesus said:

Matthew 7: 17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed away yet? Has everything in the Bible been fulfilled yet?

No

 

[Gary K]

Romans 2:14-16 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Adultery was prohibited by Natural Law before the 10 Commandments were given to the Israelites.

Genesis 20:1-7 Abraham traveled from there toward the land of the arid southern plain, and he settled as an immigrant in Gerar, between Kadesh and Shur. 2 Abraham said of his wife Sarah, “She’s my sister.” So King Abimelech of Gerar took her into his household. 3 But God appeared to Abimelech that night in a dream and said to him, “You are as good as dead because of this woman you have taken. She is a married woman.”

4 Now Abimelech hadn’t gone near her, and he said, “Lord, will you really put an innocent nation to death? 5 Didn’t he say to me, ‘She’s my sister,’ and didn’t she—even she—say, ‘He’s my brother’? My intentions were pure, and I acted innocently when I did this.” 6 God said to him in the dream, “I know that your intentions were pure when you did this. In fact, I kept you from sinning against me. That’s why I didn’t allow you to touch her. 7 Now return the man’s wife. He’s a prophet; he will pray for you so you may live. But if you don’t return her, know that you and everyone with you will die!”

Murder was prohibited by Natural Law. Consequences for Murder before the first covenant was put into force:

Genesis 4:8-11 Cain said to his brother Abel, “Let’s go out to the field.” When they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him. 9 The Lord said to Cain, “Where is your brother Abel?”

Cain said, “I don’t know. Am I my brother’s guardian?”

10 The Lord said, “What did you do? The voice of your brother’s blood is crying to me from the ground. 11 You are now cursed from the ground that opened its mouth to take your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you farm the fertile land, it will no longer grow anything for you, and you will become a roving nomad on the earth.”

I have more questions for you.

You say God's law was unknown before Moses. I disagree. You have given examples that you consider irrefutable. Here's my question for you. If all that is true why did God instruct Noah to take unclean beasts by two and clean by sevens into the ark?

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.*n1
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

So God's law was unknown but the dietary laws of clean and unclean laws were?

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Genesis 6: 5 ¶And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.*n1*n

The law of God defines righteousness as 1John says sin is the transgression of the law, So how could man's thoughts be described as only evil continually if God's law was not in existence. Plus, how could Noah be described as "righteous in this generation" if God's law did not exist?

And how could Adam and Eve have sinned in the Garden of Eden if God's law did not exist for sin is the transgression of the law?

 

[Jan001]

I didn't ask your opinion on that I asked where the Natural law is found in scripture. Where is the term defined: Natural Law is blah, blah, blah. You and I know there is no such scripture. It's a term you, or someone else, invented.

God's law is as eternal as He is. Jesus said:

Matthew 7: 17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed away yet? Has everything in the Bible been fulfilled yet?

Why do you think that the Natural Law of God must be specifically defined?

Romans 2:13-15 For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. 14 When Gentiles who have not the law do by nature what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that what the law requires is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or perhaps excuse them

The Holy Trinity is not specifically defined in Scripture but God is definitely the Holy Trinity of three Divine Persons:

​

John 14:15-17“If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I (Son of God) will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.​

​

Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,​

John 5:18 This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him (Jesus), because he (Jesus) not only broke the sabbath but also called God his own Father, making himself equal with God.​

Jesus Christ is Lord of the Sabbath and that is why He has authority over it. Jesus is God and so He can change the commandments about the Sabbath and He did.

New Covenant and new priesthood equals new laws.

First covenant Levitical priesthood requires Saturday Sabbath worship practices and rest day.
New Covenant Melchizedekian priesthood with Jesus Christ as the High Priest requires Sunday worship practices and rest day.

Hebrews 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.

 

[Jan001]

God's law is as eternal as He is. Jesus said:

Matthew 7: 17 ¶Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Have heaven and earth passed away yet? ..........

Yes, the "heaven and earth" that Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 5 passed away in "this" generation. He prophesied that it would and it did.

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.​

​

Mark 12:29-31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

​

Luke 21:31-33 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

What is this heaven and earth? It is the first covenant and its tabernacle/temple religious practices. The heaven and earth (first covenant and temple religious practices) passed away in that very generation. Jesus is using a metaphor (heaven and earth) for the first covenant and its worship practices.


God makes His first covenant (the first heavens and earth and Levitical tabernacle and temple religious system) with the Israelites and calls them His people:

Psalm 78:69 He built his sanctuary (tabernacle) like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded for ever.

The making of the first covenant:

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth, and hid you in the shadow of my hand, stretching out the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, ‘You are my people.’”


However, Jesus makes His new covenant (and Melchizedekian religious system) with the new people of God who are Israelites/Jews and Gentiles. His peoples' bodies/souls/hearts/minds are Jesus' temples on earth. 1 Corinthians 3:16


Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth (new covenant); for the first heaven and the first earth (first covenant) had passed away, and the sea was no more.


The "sea was no more" and this is because there is no need for an enormous washing basin/laver for any priests to do their ritual bathing in Jesus' new covenant religion.

The Levitical priests under the first covenant were required to ritually bathe; and the metaphor for this gigantic washing basin was the "sea".

1 Kings 7:23 Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference.

To view an artist's interpretation from the Jewish Encyclopedia of this "sea" described in 1 Kings: Ritual washing basin/sea for Levitical priests

 

[Gary K]

Yes, the "heaven and earth" that Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 5 passed away in "this" generation. He prophesied that it would and it did.

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.​

​

Mark 12:29-31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

​

Luke 21:31-33 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

What is this heaven and earth? It is the first covenant and its tabernacle/temple religious practices. The heaven and earth (first covenant and temple religious practices) passed away in that very generation. Jesus is using a metaphor (heaven and earth) for the first covenant and its worship practices.


God makes His first covenant (the first heavens and earth and Levitical tabernacle and temple religious system) with the Israelites and calls them His people:

Psalm 78:69 He built his sanctuary (tabernacle) like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded for ever.

The making of the first covenant:

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth, and hid you in the shadow of my hand, stretching out the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, ‘You are my people.’”


However, Jesus makes His new covenant (and Melchizedekian religious system) with the new people of God who are Israelites/Jews and Gentiles. His peoples' bodies/souls/hearts/minds are Jesus' temples on earth. 1 Corinthians 3:16


Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth (new covenant); for the first heaven and the first earth (first covenant) had passed away, and the sea was no more.


The "sea was no more" and this is because there is no need for an enormous washing basin/laver for any priests to do their ritual bathing in Jesus' new covenant religion.

The Levitical priests under the first covenant were required to ritually bathe; and the metaphor for this gigantic washing basin was the "sea".

1 Kings 7:23 Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference.

To view an artist's interpretation from the Jewish Encyclopedia of this "sea" described in 1 Kings: Ritual washing basin/sea for Levitical priests

So as far as you're concerned all Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled and heaven and earth are no more.

 

[Leaf473]

Yes, the "heaven and earth" that Jesus prophesied about in Matthew 5 passed away in "this" generation. He prophesied that it would and it did.

Matthew 5:18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.​

​

Mark 12:29-31 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that he is near, at the very gates. 30 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away before all these things take place. 31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

​

Luke 21:31-33 So also, when you see these things taking place, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away till all has taken place. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.​

What is this heaven and earth? It is the first covenant and its tabernacle/temple religious practices. The heaven and earth (first covenant and temple religious practices) passed away in that very generation. Jesus is using a metaphor (heaven and earth) for the first covenant and its worship practices.


God makes His first covenant (the first heavens and earth and Levitical tabernacle and temple religious system) with the Israelites and calls them His people:

Psalm 78:69 He built his sanctuary (tabernacle) like the high heavens, like the earth, which he has founded for ever.

The making of the first covenant:

Isaiah 51:16 And I have put my words in your mouth, and hid you in the shadow of my hand, stretching out the heavens and laying the foundations of the earth, and saying to Zion, ‘You are my people.’”


However, Jesus makes His new covenant (and Melchizedekian religious system) with the new people of God who are Israelites/Jews and Gentiles. His peoples' bodies/souls/hearts/minds are Jesus' temples on earth. 1 Corinthians 3:16


Revelation 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth (new covenant); for the first heaven and the first earth (first covenant) had passed away, and the sea was no more.


The "sea was no more" and this is because there is no need for an enormous washing basin/laver for any priests to do their ritual bathing in Jesus' new covenant religion.

The Levitical priests under the first covenant were required to ritually bathe; and the metaphor for this gigantic washing basin was the "sea".

1 Kings 7:23 Then he made the molten sea; it was round, ten cubits from brim to brim, and five cubits high, and a line of thirty cubits measured its circumference.

To view an artist's interpretation from the Jewish Encyclopedia of this "sea" described in 1 Kings: Ritual washing basin/sea for Levitical priests

I heard a similar idea, that heaven and earth passing away is a great upheaval in the current order. You probably already know that the temple was destroyed 40 years - one generation - after Jesus' death and Resurrection.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:2 - New American Standard Bible

But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Jan001]

I have more questions for you.

You say God's law was unknown before Moses. I disagree. You have given examples that you consider irrefutable. Here's my question for you. If all that is true why did God instruct Noah to take unclean beasts by two and clean by sevens into the ark?

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.*n1
3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

So God's law was unknown but the dietary laws of clean and unclean laws were?

Genesis 7: 1 And the Lord said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

Genesis 6: 5 ¶And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.*n1*n

The law of God defines righteousness as 1John says sin is the transgression of the law, So how could man's thoughts be described as only evil continually if God's law was not in existence. Plus, how could Noah be described as "righteous in this generation" if God's law did not exist?

And how could Adam and Eve have sinned in the Garden of Eden if God's law did not exist for sin is the transgression of the law?

God's natural laws were indeed known before Moses, but God's specific "first covenant laws" were put into place after the Israelites left Egypt.

God's first law, also known as Natural Law, was put into place for all mankind when Adam was created. God's law from the beginning of time is this: Luke 10:27. Here is an example of a specific law in God's Natural Law: Matthew 19:8

There have been righteous men since the beginning. Adam was righteous before he sinned. Abel was a righteous man. Seth was a righteous man. They were called righteous because their hearts were not evil and they strived to do good instead of evil towards God and their neighbors.

God did give specific commands to specific people at different times. We do know that God did have dietary laws that He commanded for Noah and his family for his lifetime.

We also know that God removed all dietary laws regarding meat, fish, and fowl, etc. for all people under Jesus' New Covenant.

Acts 11:4-10 Starting from the beginning, Peter told them the whole story: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying, and in a trance I saw a vision. I saw something like a large sheet being let down from heaven by its four corners, and it came down to where I was. 6 I looked into it and saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, reptiles and birds. 7 Then I heard a voice telling me, ‘Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.’ 8 “I replied, ‘Surely not, Lord! Nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth.’9 “The voice spoke from heaven a second time, ‘Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.’ 10 This happened three times, and then it was all pulled up to heaven again.

​

Mark 7:12-20 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.” [16] Some manuscripts have this verse in it: If anyone has ears to hear, let them hear.” 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? 19 For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.) 20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

A basic understanding of some of the differences between the Ten Commandments and all the other requirements, statutes and judgments (the 603) is needed in order to understand what was done away with at the cross.

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1A. The Ten Commandments were spoken by God.​

Exodus 20:1​

"Then God spoke all these words, saying . . . " ​

​

Exodus 20:22​

"GOD said to Moses, "Give this Message to the People of Israel: "You've experienced firsthand how I spoke with you from Heaven."​

This is the only instance in the Pentateuch in which God directly proclaims a law to His people without the mediation of Moses. This to me says quite a lot about this particular law. How many times throughout the Bible does God speak audibly so that more than one person can hear Him? I can only thing of a couple of times. He spoke at the baptism of His son, Jesus. He also spoke at the transfiguration of Jesus.

Deuteronomy 4:12-13 ​

“Then the LORD spoke to you out of the fire. You heard the sound of words but saw no form; there was only a voice. He declared to you his covenant, the Ten Commandments, which He commanded you to follow and then wrote them on two stone tablets.”​

1B. Statutes spoken by Moses

Exodus 24:3​

“So Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD and all the judgments. And all the people answered with one voice and said, ‘All the words which the LORD has said we will do.’"​

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2A. Ten Commandments engraved on tablets of stone by God Himself

Exodus 31:18​

“And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.”​

What significance might there be to the fact that God Himself wrote the Ten Commandments. Not only once did He write them, but twice (see Deuteronomy 10:1-4). Why wouldn’t God entrust Moses to write them down either time?

Exodus 34:28​

"And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments."​

Here we see that the Ten Commandments are indeed a covenant, but how many commandments are in this particular covenant?

Deuteronomy 5:22​

"These words the LORD spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to [Moses]."​

Obviously if you lump all the requirements, statutes and laws together you would have more than ten. The number ten clearly limits the total. And if God ADDED NO MORE, how can man? The Ten Commandments are also a complete covenant. God did not say “part of a covenant.” He also did not say they were an installment. They are complete.

2B. Statutes written by Moses in a book (called the BOOK of the COVENANT).

Exodus 24:4, 7​

“And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD. And he rose early in the morning, and built an altar at the foot of the mountain, and twelve pillars according to the twelve tribes of Israel. Then he took the BOOK OF THE COVENANT and read in the hearing of the people. And they said, ‘All that the LORD has said we will do, and be obedient.’"​

Is there a covenant mentioned here? Here also is a promise, albeit a faulty one--by the people.

Deuteronomy 31:24​

"So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished..."​

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3A. The Ten Commandments were placed inside the ark of the covenant.

Deuteronomy 10:5​

“Then I turned and came down from the mountain, and PUT THE TABLETS IN THE ARK which I had made; and there they are, just as the LORD commanded me.”​

3B. Statutes deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark.” A.R.V.

Deuteronomy 31:26​

“Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you.”​

Why did Moses have to place the BOOK OF THE COVENANT "beside the ark of the covenant"? Wasn't there enough room to put it in with the TEN commandments? And if God gives us so many clues as to the enduring nature of the ten commandments, shouldn't we take heed? If you were going to make a distinction between two sets of laws how would you propose to do any better than what God did?

Now, here’s the good part!

Colossians 2:14, 16-17​

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."​

Wow! Did you get that? The reason why we no longer observe the Passover, Jewish feasts and offer animal sacrifices is because all of these were a part of the handwriting of ordinances which were a shadow pointing forward to the cross. Once Jesus died, offering an animal sacrifice would be denying His sacrifice. The Sabbath of the Ten Commandments cannot be included in this text for many reasons, but mainly because it was a memorial of something that took place in the past (Exodus 20:11)--it wasn’t pointing forward to the cross. The Sabbath is a memorial of God’s creative power. His creative act is why He is deserving of our worship and praise (see Revelation 14:7)! The Sabbath is the day God rested from His creating and then He blessed, sanctified and made the seventh day holy.

Now if the Ten Commandments are still in existence the following texts will make more sense.

Romans 7:7, 12-13​

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, ‘You shall not covet.’ Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good... Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.​

What law is being quoted from here? The ten commandments right? My Bible’s center column chain reference throws me back to Exodus 20:17 and Deuteronomy 5:21, the Ten Commandments. Is this saying that only the tenth command of the Ten Commandments is holy, just and good? Obviously not!

James 2:9-12​

“But if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, ’do not commit adultery,’ also said, ’do not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.”​

The Ten Commandments are not a method of salvation. They are our mirror whereby we see that we are sinners in need of a Savior. If there is no law, then there is no sin. If there is no sin, then there is no need of a Savior.

At this point I’d just like to say I appreciate current dilemma of the critics. Most churches that lay hold on the name Jesus Christ are not teaching that the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments is of any significance. But I ask you, is the majority always right? If so, then the church organization with the most members should be the one that should have all the truth. The Catholic church has the largest membership, but it is also what spawned the name Protestant. The Catholic church was not following the Bible and the Bible only (sola scriptura) and for this reason great reformers such as John Wycliffe, Martin Luther, John Huss, and many others, suffered incredible persecution to bring the truth of the Bible to light. The Catholic church lays claim to the fact that it is the one responsible for changing the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. It also significantly altered the Ten Commandments, dropping out the command not to have graven images and splitting in two one of the other nine in order to maintain the number ten. If indeed the commandments were changed by the Catholic church, could it be that traditions of man have been kept, even in many Protestant denominations? This would have some very negative repercussions because in Mark 7:7-9 Jesus says, “And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men—the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do." Furthermore He said, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. For Moses said, ‘honor your father and your mother ...’”

Again please note that Christ refers to a command from the Decalogue. What does He say of the worship that is done by those who lay aside the commandment of God? He says “in vain do they worship me” (see also Acts 5:29 and Colossians 2:8). It doesn’t matter whether you are sincere in your belief. You can be sincerely wrong.

The Sabbath is a special test command placed in the heart of the Ten. It is for us the same as the tree of knowledge of good and evil was for Adam and Eve. It’s not a difficult command, and in fact it was made for our benefit. Mark 2:27 says “the Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:” There is a spiritual benefit to be attained by keeping the Bible Sabbath.

The Sabbath is holy. What does it mean for something to be “holy”? When Moses approached the burning bush, God spoke to him and told him to remove his sandals. Why? Because the place where he was standing was holy ground. What made the ground holy? It was God’s presence in the ground that made it holy, right? In a similar way, that we as finite beings may not fully understand, the seventh day Sabbath is imbued with the presence of God! There is a special blessing to be attained by worshipping on the day which God rested, the day He blessed and made holy. No other day can lay hold of these special claims because God never applied these characteristics to any other day.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

JUMP STATION​

Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian	Notice that none of the critics respond to the ten reasons
Creation Sabbath Origin	For those who insist the Sabbath is only for the Jews
Spiritual vs Physical	A look at how the critics want to spiritualize rest but not food or drink
The New Covenant	Most critics conflate the law with being the agreement/covenant.
Works Relation to Salvation	Works reveal if your faith is real

As a Christian, I don't really focus on "The ten" either. I focus on the two, which encapsulate the ten, but from the perspective of us "free" Christians. To use a traffic law equivalent. Jewish and Muslim laws are like stop signs at intersections. But the Christian law is like "yield" signs at all intersections, coupled with the understanding that the car entering from the right has the right of way.

That is, Jews and Muslims "stop" at all stop signs even if there are no cars to be seen for miles down the road. Christians approach the intersection and continue through if they can see down the road for a safe distance and see there is no oncoming traffic. We are free to understand what must be done to keep the road safe, and are given the freedom to make our own decision regarding stopping.

Of course, in the real world, this leads to more "accidents" because people make mistakes. That is why there are more corrupt leaders in so called "Christian" churches. Less checks and balances. Freedom does have a price, but I still prefer it.

BTW, the two are (summarized) love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If one abides by those two simple commandments, life is good!

 

[Leaf473]

As a Christian, I don't really focus on "The ten" either. I focus on the two, which encapsulate the ten, but from the perspective of us "free" Christians. To use a traffic law equivalent. Jewish and Muslim laws are like stop signs at intersections. But the Christian law is like "yield" signs at all intersections, coupled with the understanding that the car entering from the right has the right of way.

That is, Jews and Muslims "stop" at all stop signs even if there are no cars to be seen for miles down the road. Christians approach the intersection and continue through if they can see down the road for a safe distance and see there is no oncoming traffic. We are free to understand what must be done to keep the road safe, and are given the freedom to make our own decision regarding stopping.

Of course, in the real world, this leads to more "accidents" because people make mistakes. That is why there are more corrupt leaders in so called "Christian" churches. Less checks and balances. Freedom does have a price, but I still prefer it.

BTW, the two are (summarized) love God and love your neighbor as yourself. If one abides by those two simple commandments, life is good!

I like that analogy, the stop sign vs the yield sign.

 

[Jan001]

So as far as you're concerned all Biblical prophecies have been fulfilled and heaven and earth are no more.

Jesus came to earth in the flesh for His first appearance on earth to fulfill the prophecies that were written about Him in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms. Matthew 5:17 He fulfilled all of them pertaining to His first appearance in the flesh. These prophecies are finished. John 19:29-30 He fulfilled/finished the first covenant (Law of Moses) by His perfect sacrifice on the cross and by this same perfect sacrifice, He mediated the Law of Christ, His new and better covenant. Hebrews 8:6, Romans 10:4, Galatians 6:2

Luke 24:36-44 The Appearance to the Disciples in Jerusalem. 36 While they were still speaking about this, he stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 But they were startled and terrified and thought that they were seeing a ghost. 38 Then he said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do questions arise in your hearts? 39 Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” 40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of baked fish; 43 he took it and ate it in front of them. 44 He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He told them that He had fulfilled all of them (pertaining to His first appearance on earth). Here is a link to many of the prophecies written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms that Jesus fulfilled by His birth, ministry, death, and resurrection. (There are 3 pages of them.) Fulfilled

The heaven and earth (old "first" covenant Levitical temple worship system) is no more. It was made obsolete by Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross. By His death, Jesus Christ mediated His new covenant religious system (new heaven and new earth) Revelation 21:1 and it is now the law for all people, whether they accept it or not. The practicing Jews of today believe that they are still under the first covenant but they are mistaken. Only Jesus Christ's new covenant religious system is in force today and it will remain until His second appearing in the flesh at the end of time. Hebrews 9:28

 

[Jan001]

I heard a similar idea, that heaven and earth passing away is a great upheaval in the current order. You probably already know that the temple was destroyed 40 years - one generation - after Jesus' death and Resurrection.

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:2 - New American Standard Bible

But He responded and said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down.”

www.biblegateway.com

Yes, it definitely was a great upheaval in that religious order of things. The last remnant reminder of the first covenant (the temple and Jerusalem and the people who lived there) was destroyed by the Roman Armies in AD 70. All of the Christians fled the city before this happened. They heeded Jesus' instructions. Luke 21:20-21

Jesus' teachings divided members of a family. Some members of a family chose to believe in Him but other members of the same family refused to believe in Him.

Luke 12:49-56 I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! 50 I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! 51 Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52 for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; 53 they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.”

The judgment for the Jewish unbelievers in Jerusalem was death. The Roman Armies meted out God's punishment on the disbelieving Jews in AD 70.

 

[Gary K]

Jesus came to earth in the flesh for His first appearance on earth to fulfill all the prophecies that were written about Him in the Law of Moses, the Prophets, and the Psalms. Matthew 5:17 He fulfilled all of them pertaining to His first appearance in the flesh. These prophecies are finished. John 19:29-30 He fulfilled/finished the first covenant (Law of Moses) by His perfect sacrifice on the cross and by this same perfect sacrifice, He mediated the Law of Christ, His new and better covenant. Hebrews 8:6, Romans 10:4, Galatians 6:2

Luke 24:36-44 The Appearance to the Disciples in Jerusalem. 36 While they were still speaking about this, he stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 37 But they were startled and terrified and thought that they were seeing a ghost. 38 Then he said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do questions arise in your hearts? 39 Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” 40 And as he said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. 41 While they were still incredulous for joy and were amazed, he asked them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave him a piece of baked fish; 43 he took it and ate it in front of them. 44 He said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.” 45 Then he opened their minds to understand the scriptures.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He told them that He had fulfilled all of them. Here is a link to many of the prophecies written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms that Jesus fulfilled by His birth, ministry, death, and resurrection. (There are 3 pages of them.) Fulfilled

The heaven and earth (old "first" covenant Levitical temple worship system) is no more. It was made obsolete by Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross. By His death, Jesus Christ mediated His new covenant religious system (new heaven and new earth) Revelation 21:1 and it is now the law for all people, whether they accept it or not. The practicing Jews of today believe that they are still under the first covenant but they are mistaken. Only Jesus Christ's new covenant religious system is in force today and it will remain until His second appearing in the flesh at the end of time. Hebrews 9:28

I disagree with your reading of scripture. However, and most importantly, the prophecies of Daniel and Revelation have not been fulfilled and they are included by the use of the word all.

 

[Leaf473]

If someone says no part of the law has passed away,

and then they also say that some parts of the law came to an end,

how do those two things go together? Is "passing from" different from "ending"?

 

[Studyman]

If someone says no part of the law has passed away,

and then they also say that some parts of the law came to an end,

how do those two things go together? Is "passing from" different from "ending"?

When the Law was Passed by God, that states that "After a certain period of time", a change in the Manner of How God's Laws are administered, and how forgiveness of Transgressions of this Law is provided for, will take place. (Jer. 31) Then when this time comes, and the Promised Change takes affect, then "NO" Part of the LAW has passed away. Rather, the Law has been fulfilled exactly as written.

 

[Leaf473]

When the Law was Passed by God, that states that "After a certain period of time", a change in the Manner of How God's Laws are administered, and how forgiveness of Transgressions of this Law is provided for, will take place. (Jer. 31) Then when this time comes, and the Promised Change takes affect, then "NO" Part of the LAW has passed away. Rather, the Law has been fulfilled exactly as written.

Okay... and would you say that some parts of the law came to an end?

 

[Gary K]

If someone says no part of the law has passed away,

and then they also say that some parts of the law came to an end,

how do those two things go together? Is "passing from" different from "ending"?

God's law is eternal. Mosaic law is not as Moses died like we all do. Some of the Mosaic law came to it's natural end at the death of Jesus. Others were simply object lessons teaching the Israelites principles God wished to teach them after generations of slavery. That's one reason why the 10 commandments were given in negative terms rather than positive terms..

 

[Leaf473]

God's law is eternal. Mosaic law is not as Moses died like we all do.

Okay... When Jesus said that he didn't come to destroy the law and the prophets, which law was he talking about?

Some of the Mosaic law came to it's natural end at the death of Jesus. Others were simply object lessons teaching the Israelites principles God wished to teach them after generations of slavery. That's one reason why the 10 commandments were given in negative terms rather than positive terms..

 

[Gary K]

Okay... When Jesus said that he didn't come to destroy the law and the prophets, which law was he talking about?

The 10 commandments. God's eternal law.

 

[Leaf473]

The 10 commandments. God's eternal law.

It looks like we see that differently, then. I see the law there as referring to all of the instructions given to the Israelites in the wilderness.

In this passage as well

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 7:12 - New American Standard Bible

“In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

www.biblegateway.com