Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

U.S. pulling visas from Jewish Israeli settlers who attack West Bank Palestinians​

The Biden administration on Tuesday announced it was banning dozens of Jewish Israeli settlers from traveling to the U.S. because of their involvement in brutal attacks on Palestinians in the occupied West Bank aimed at driving people from their homes and taking away their land.

“We have underscored to the Israeli government the need to do more to hold accountable extremist settlers who have committed violent attacks against Palestinians in the West Bank,” Blinken said in a statement.

U.S. officials said they were taking action because Israel has largely failed to arrest, prosecute or punish settlers who have burned Palestinian homes and olive groves, stolen their sheep and shot members of Palestinian families.

A number of West Bank Palestinians who have engaged in violence against Israelis will also be subject to the visa ban, U.S. officials said. The number is smaller because Israel usually arrests Palestinian offenders while ignoring the Jewish settlers guilty of similar crimes, U.S. officials said.

U.S. officials have referred to the settlers’ actions in the West Bank as Jewish terrorism. They said they are confident they have enough evidence to choose which settlers to ban, even though they have not faced an Israeli court.

If this is all true then I would support this action. Let the army deal with what it needs to. Don't take matters into your own hands unless it is self defense.

 

[Bradskii]

First of all those numbers have not been verified.

Why are you arguing against the numbers?

 

[Bradskii]

Who claimed that?......or are you just making something up in order to stir the pot a little?

Read it in context, for heaven's sake. If you can't see what was being implied then no amoumt of explanation from me is going to help you. Not that I have any desire to do that.

 

[Valletta]

Bin Laden was surrounded by female relatives and children. As discussed previously, the United States deliberately chose to not drop a bomb on the site, due in part to the number of civilian casualties that would ensue.

Actually they needed verification Bin Laden was there. It was highly suspected very much because there was a 6' 6"" tall individual who would take walks on the roof. Hamas can place civilians at their rocket sites, for that matter kill the civilians if capture is imminent. There has been savagery and barbarism in the world before, but jihadists are particularly cowardly.

 

[essentialsaltes]

I think we addressed this before. Not sure why you keep bringing it up. Bin-Laden was the hunt for one man.

So was this, according to the IDF.

According to the IDF, their target was a Hamas ringleader of the Oct 7 attacks:

The Israeli military announced that the strike had killed a ringleader of the Oct. 7 attacks. The medical director of a nearby hospital reported hundreds of injured people and dozens of deaths.

Israel strikes dense Gaza camp, says it kills Hamas commander​

 

[rjs330]

As it stands, we are in no place to critique Israel and their methods.

I would say as a nation that is correct. But as individuals we can. I am sure MANY of the individuals who are criticizing Israel also would have the same criticism of the US after 911. In fact we've already seen them criticize the US for acts in WWII.

I do think though we have gotten involved in wars we just should have stayed out of.

War is a mean destructive and terrible thing and we should definitely not get involved in any unless we are willing to do whatever is necessary to win. And these days with terrorist organizations it's a much different fight. They could care less how many civilians die. Israel could wipe Gaza off the map and kill every Gazan and Hamas wouldn't stop. Whereas the Germans and Japanese did because they cared about their people and their country. Hamas only cares about killing Jews and they will sacrifice every man woman and child in Palestine to keep in killing Jews.

 

[Bradskii]

We honestly won't know if it's self defeating until it's over. Right now it's only speculation.

What an incredibly naive statement. You are obviously aware of the backlash Israel is getting from its friends. What do you honestly think that those people who are not exactly bosom buddies with Israel are thinking right now? 'Good for them standing up for themselves' perhaps. Or 'all those Muslim deaths are entirely justified.'

If Israel specifically wanted to increase the number of enemies that would do them actual harm, as opposed to simply not supporting them, then what they are doing right now is exactly the best method to attain that end.

Can no-one get this across to any of you, that there are two reasons for telling Israel to stop? One is the horrendous death toll (and why are you arguing against it if you don't think it's horrendous). And that concerns me because of simple basic humanity. And two, they are making things worse for themselves. And that concerns me because I support Israel.

 

[Bradskii]

Yeah, not even remotely the same thing.

You were the one complaining about the 'methodology' of killing innocents. And I agree. Israel is using a completely different method.

 

[Bradskii]

Israel could wipe Gaza off the map and kill every Gazan and Hamas wouldn't stop.

Wrong tense. They won't, not wouldn't. And they'll have more support because of what's happening. But interesting for you to admit that all this is a complete waste of lives.

 

[civilwarbuff]

A perfectly rational response to differing ideas from a all knowing being.

Well, at least you acknowledge He is an all knowing being. That's a step......

 

[civilwarbuff]

Read it in context, for heaven's sake. If you can't see what was being implied then no amoumt of explanation from me is going to help you. Not that I have any desire to do that.

So in other words no one said that.......just reading in context mind you......

 

[Desk trauma]

Well, at least you acknowledge He is an all knowing being. That's a step......

I also acknowledge that Voldemort has no nose to speak of.

 

[Bradskii]

So in other words no one said that.......just reading in context mind you......

'There are people who think that using quotes means that someone actually said what is within the quotes rather than it being used as a hypothetical and tongue in cheek example of a conversation highlighting a nonsensical position.'

Spoiler alert. No-one actually said that. Just so you can read it in context.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ahh, applying human 'ethics' to God......Is that the beginning of a joke?

Brother, you walked into the middle of an argument I was having with an atheist. You may want to keep that in mind.

The point that I was intending to insinuate to him was that I'm all for deconstructing ANY ethical position out there. It's just that the Liberal Left wants to prevent that sort of "deconstruction." They like to deconstruct beliefs, but not when deconstructon is applied to their favorite ethical viewpoint.

What's more, I would never apply human ethical evaluations to God. Not only would I make a mistake in doing so if I did, but if He exists---and I have a strong hunch He does---it wouldn't matter anyway. He'd still win.

 

[rjs330]

Why are you arguing against the numbers?

I think I was pretty clear about my thoughts on it.

 

[Bradskii]

The point that I was intending to insinuate to him was that I'm all for deconstructing ANY ethical position out there. It's just that the Liberal Left wants to prevent that sort of "deconstruction." They like to deconstruct beliefs, but not when it's applied to their favorite ethical viewpoint.

Well, to be fair, anyone's ethical position is based on their beliefs. Be they religious or otherwise. You can't discuss someone ethics without asking them what they believe and why.

 

[Bradskii]

I think I was pretty clear about my thoughts on it.

Not that I'm aware. And I'm not talking simply about the accuracy. You reject numbers complaining that they aren't that high. Why does the number matter?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Just so you can read it in context.

Whenever you try to deflect I know what you are saying.....you seem to give us lots of practice at that sort of thing.......

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Well, to be fair, anyone's ethical position is based on their beliefs. Be they religious or otherwise. You can't discuss someone ethics without asking them what they believe and why.

Yes. You're exactly right about that. But some people seem to think their own ethical point of view is somehow "special" and should be protected, receiving diplomatic immunity from the same ascerbic scrutiny and deconstruction that they themselves like to dish out.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Brother, you walked into the middle of an argument I was having with an atheist. You may want to keep that in mind.

I understood that......