the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[ARBITER01]

Paul didn't say 'with' that was added by some translators.

That's true.

Here's a picture of the Concordant Literal Version Interlinear section of that verse, notice the different possible translations are identified. It could be translated "to The" or it could be translated "with The" but each different word used is still an addition in front of the article. It's not a specific Greek word.

 

[ARBITER01]

Personal interpretation eventually collapses like a house of cards when examined by the Scripture, Wisdom, and reason...

Can you imagine having no communication with a friend who indwells ?

Unbelievable...

To respond to this,....

Actually it is quite believable when you think about it.

If all you have is your born again, sealed unto the day of redemption portion of The Holy Spirit inside you and nothing more, then yes, you will have no communication or revelation from The Holy Spirit throughout your Christian walk. You will not know what that is because you will never experience it.

If all a newborn Christian does is be water immersed after their born again experience, then they will not enjoy the communion/fellowship of The Holy Spirit like those of us do who took the third step and was filled with The Holy Spirit.

It's entirely their loss that they don't follow Jesus and His example.

 

[Carl Emerson]

To respond to this,....

Actually it is quite believable when you think about it.

If all you have is your born again, sealed unto the day of redemption portion of The Holy Spirit inside you and nothing more, then yes, you will have no communication or revelation from The Holy Spirit throughout your Christian walk. You will not know what that is because you will never experience it.

If all a newborn Christian does is be water immersed after their born again experience, then they will not enjoy the communion/fellowship of The Holy Spirit like those of us do who took the third step and was filled with The Holy Spirit.

It's entirely their loss that they don't follow Jesus and His example.

Yes I think we differ on this...

I believe the indwelling presence includes the 7 spirits mentioned in Isaiah 11 and confirmed in Jer 32:40. But few seem to come into the communion possible because of fear of surrender.

So lots of words about Christianity and few seem to walk the talk.

However the path to empowered ministry is a different matter and indeed needs the permanent filling that Jesus received at baptism, and the disciples at Pentecost.

At the end of the day I look for fruit - and Love.

So I look for these first and then I will consider theology...

Most who push a theology will not talk about their personal walk and the fruit that confirms His work.

 

[ARBITER01]

At the end of the day I look for fruit - and Love.

That,..... will be in short supply if a person doesn't pursue receiving the filling of The Spirit. There is no way a person will grow beyond the bounds of their carnal nature without more of Him.

I don't mean to derail, but I thought your comment was interesting.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Yes the road to hearing God is not an easy one...

It does take a radical encounter and many years in the wilderness.

I don't follow the circus of 'ministry' that evokes the sort of thread we have here - better to focus on being faithful in your small corner.

Just want to be soft in His hands and ready to obey in an instant.

I really think that Western Christianity expects the immediate when preparation can be decades not months.

However the dream of participating at the edge of the Kingdom partnering as He did with the Father and seeing folks touched and the Word spread with confirming signs has become a reality.

Most folks don't realise the amazing life he longs for us to walk in.

Most are sold short by teachers of The Way who have never walked it.

By the way having been restored from a shipwrecked life I can only honour Him and marvel at His great grace.

 

[swordsman1]

In other words, all you have is just a claim,.... which can safely be consigned to the theological sCRAP pile if you can't prove it is true.

I have already proved it is true. Virtually all bible translations, along with the Greek lexicons, agree that the meaning of the Greek word summartureó should be translated "to bear witness WITH".

It is you who is yet to prove your alternate translation is correct and the bible translations have it wrong.

 

[DragonFox91]

He can give revelation to you, but it's not new revelation, & the Bible confirms it.

 

[swordsman1]

Paul didn't say 'with' that was added by some translators.

That is because the Greek verb summartureó means to testify together WITH someone else ie. as a joint witness.
Here is the proof again....

Strong's Concordance​

summartureó: to testify or bear witness with
Original Word: συμμαρτυρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: summartureó
Phonetic Spelling: (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)
Definition: to testify or bear witness with
Usage: I bear witness together with.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon​

STRONGS NT 4828: συμμαρτυρέω
συμμαρτυρέω, συμμαρτύρω (T WH συνμαρτυρέω (cf. σύν, II. at the end)); to bear witness with, bear joint witness (with one): συμμαρτυρούσης τῆς συνειδήσεως, their conscience also bearing witness, Romans 2:15 (i. e. together with the deeds of the Gentiles, which accord with the law of God and so bear witness (cf. Winer's Grammar, 580 (539))); followed by ὅτι, Romans 9:1 (besides the fact that the close fellowship I have with Christ compels me to tell the truth); τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν, with our spirit already giving its testimony, Romans 8:16. Middle present 1 person singular Συμμαρτυροῦμαι, I testify on my own behalf besides (i. e. besides those things which I have already testified in this book), Revelation 22:18 Rec.; but the true reading here, μαρτυρῶ, was restored by Griesbach (Sophocles, Euripides, Thucydides, Plato, others.)

 

[swordsman1]

Trying to find the words in how to explain it. But John also in John chapter 1 terms it as Jesus is the spoken word of God, that God spoke and by that speaking everything was created, and by HIM everything was created. Paul also points that Jesus the person in the Trinity is the agent of creation. Which in Genesis 1, is God speaking is the agent of creation.

So in some way, Jesus is the spoken word of God.

There is only 1 place in scripture where the term "the Word of God" refers to Christ, that is Rev.19:13. All bible translations acknowledge this by capitalizing the W in that verse. In all other occurrences they use a lowercase w, because they know it is referring to the written (or spoken) word of God.

It is easy to demonstrate why. Try substituting instances of "the word of God" with "Jesus" and see if the verse makes sense. For example, do these verses make sense to you?.....

2 Samuel 16:23 ... if one consulted [Jesus];

1 Kings 12:22 But [Jesus] came to Shemaiah the man of God:

Proverbs 30:5 Every [Jesus] is flawless;

Matt 15:6 So for the sake of your tradition you have made void [Jesus].

Luke 8:21 But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear [Jesus] and do it.”

Luke 11:28 But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear [Jesus] and keep it!”

Acts 4:31 they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak [Jesus] with boldness.

Acts 6:7 So [Jesus] spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly,

Acts 12:24 But [Jesus] continued to spread and flourish.

Acts 13:7 The proconsul, an intelligent man, sent for Barnabas and Saul because he wanted to hear [Jesus].

1 Corinthians 14:36 Or was it from you that [Jesus] came?

Ephesians 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is [Jesus].

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received [Jesus], which you heard from us,

Hebrews 4:12 For [Jesus] is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,

Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you [Jesus].

1 Peter 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding [Jesus];

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to [Jesus] and to the testimony of Jesus Christ,

Revelation 1:9 I, John, ...was on the island called Patmos on account of [Jesus] and the testimony of Jesus.

 

[ARBITER01]

I have already proved it is true. Virtually all bible translations, along with the Greek lexicons, agree that the meaning of the Greek word summartureó should be translated "to bear witness WITH".

It is you who is yet to prove your alternate translation is correct and the bible translations have it wrong.

Nice try.

I simply asked for an example of what you were selling, and you keep trying to turn the tables around and avoid providing said example.

Ok,... so you must not have one. You can't prove what you are talking about then. Case closed.

 

[swordsman1]

Here's a picture of the Concordant Literal Version Interlinear section of that verse, notice the different possible translations are identified. It could be translated "to The" or it could be translated "with The" but each different word used is still an addition in front of the article. It's not a specific Greek word.

View attachment 340006

It is the Greek word τῷ that can be translated "to the" or "with the". However, notice that the interlinea correctly translates συμμαρτυρεῖ as "is testifying TOGETHER" (the word means to testify together with another person). Now put the 2 words together and what makes more sense: "the Spirit is testifying together with our spirit" or "the Spirit is testifying together to our spirit"?

That is why virtually every bible translation correctly translates it as the former.


As I said before, the idea of the Holy Spirit speaking to us via impressions/feelings/a sixth sense is nowhere to be found in scripture. All the verses that you and your friend have come up with to try and justify otherwise have been easily disproved.

 

[Jamdoc]

There is only 1 place in scripture where the term "the Word of God" refers to Christ, that is Rev.19:13. All bible translations acknowledge this by capitalizing the W in that verse. In all other occurrences they use a lowercase w, because they know it is referring to the written (or spoken) word of God.

It is easy to demonstrate why. Try substituting instances of "the word of God" with "Jesus" and see if the verse makes sense. For example, do these verses make sense to you?.....

2 Samuel 16:23 ... if one consulted [Jesus];

1 Kings 12:22 But [Jesus] came to Shemaiah the man of God:

Proverbs 30:5 Every [Jesus] is flawless;

Matt 15:6 So for the sake of your tradition you have made void [Jesus].

Luke 8:21 But he answered them, “My mother and my brothers are those who hear [Jesus] and do it.”

Luke 11:28 But He said, “Blessed rather are those who hear [Jesus] and keep it!”

Acts 4:31 they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and continued to speak [Jesus] with boldness.

Acts 6:7 So [Jesus] spread. The number of disciples in Jerusalem increased rapidly,

Acts 12:24 But [Jesus] continued to spread and flourish.

Acts 13:7 The proconsul, an intelligent man, sent for Barnabas and Saul because he wanted to hear [Jesus].

1 Corinthians 14:36 Or was it from you that [Jesus] came?

Ephesians 6:17 and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is [Jesus].

1 Thessalonians 2:13 And we also thank God constantly for this, that when you received [Jesus], which you heard from us,

Hebrews 4:12 For [Jesus] is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword,

Hebrews 13:7 Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you [Jesus].

1 Peter 1:23 since you have been born again, not of perishable seed but of imperishable, through the living and abiding [Jesus];

Revelation 1:2 who bore witness to [Jesus] and to the testimony of Jesus Christ,

Revelation 1:9 I, John, ...was on the island called Patmos on account of [Jesus] and the testimony of Jesus.

Well you'll have to take that debate to John and Paul then. Because both were in agreement that Jesus was the agent of creation, that it was by Jesus that everything was created. But in other places namely Genesis 1, it was God speaking that created everything. So in a sense, John, and Paul, were saying Jesus was the spoken word of God.

 

[ARBITER01]

It is the Greek word τῷ that can be translated "to the" or "with the". However, notice that the interlinea correctly translates συμμαρτυρεῖ as "is testifying TOGETHER" (the word means to testify together with another person). Now put the 2 words together and what makes more sense: "the Spirit is testifying together with our spirit" or "the Spirit is testifying together to our spirit"?

That is why virtually every bible translation correctly translates it as the former.


As I said before, the idea of the Holy Spirit speaking to us via impressions/feelings/a sixth sense is nowhere to be found in scripture. All the verses that you and your friend have come up with to try and justify otherwise have been easily disproved.

Lol.

For those watching,...

If it was only to be translated one certain way,....... why was I able to find a few translations that were different???

In fact, the 5th century Syriac Peshitta translation from the Greek did just that,...

Rom 8:16 And this Spirit testifieth to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.

So why are there a few translations out there that are different? Are they wrong or is the consensus wrong? How do we know?

We let's see if we can find something in scripture that might help us,..

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.

How does one have communion/fellowship with The Holy Spirit? Dare I say that He must talk "to" us at points? Let's make sure,....

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

Is that testifying "to" us as the Greek can also be translated? It most certainly is, and Jesus witnessed it 3 times in that section of scripture.

So how should Romans 8:16 be translated? Like the recent NET bible did,....

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to21 our spirit that we are God's children.

And the scholars involved with the NET bible even provided a commentary on this particular verse,....


Romans 8:16

21 tn Or possibly "with." ExSyn 160-61, however, notes the following:

"At issue, grammatically, is whether the Spirit testifies alongside of our spirit (dat. of association), or whether he testifies to our spirit (indirect object) that we are God's children. If the former, the one receiving this testimony is unstated (is it God? or believers?). If the latter, the believer receives the testimony and hence is assured of salvation via the inner witness of the Spirit. The first view has the advantage of a σύν- (sun-) prefixed verb, which might be expected to take an accompanying dat. of association (and is supported by NEB, JB, etc.). But there are three reasons why πνεύματι (pneumati) should not be taken as association: (1) Grammatically, a dat. with a σύν- prefixed verb does not necessarily indicate association. This, of course, does not preclude such here, but this fact at least opens up the alternatives in this text. (2) Lexically, though συμμαρτυρέω (summartureō) originally bore an associative idea, it developed in the direction of merely intensifying μαρτυρέω (martureō). This is surely the case in the only other NT text with a dat. (Rom_9:1). (3) Contextually, a dat. of association does not seem to support Paul's argument: 'What standing has our spirit in this matter? Of itself it surely has no right at all to testify to our being sons of God' [C. E. B. Cranfield, Romans [ICC], 1:403]. In sum, Rom_8:16 seems to be secure as a text in which the believer's assurance of salvation is based on the inner witness of the Spirit. The implications of this for one's soteriology are profound: The objective data, as helpful as they are, cannot by themselves provide assurance of salvation; the believer also needs (and receives) an existential, ongoing encounter with God's Spirit in order to gain that familial comfort."

They seemed to have dug into the the Greek a little bit more than our native cessationalist friend has, and decided to translate it as "to."

 

[swordsman1]

Well you'll have to take that debate to John and Paul then. Because both were in agreement that Jesus was the agent of creation, that it was by Jesus that everything was created. But in other places namely Genesis 1, it was God speaking that created everything. So in a sense, John, and Paul, were saying Jesus was the spoken word of God.

Sorry but it is fallacious reasoning to say that just because Jesus was once referred to as "The Word of God", numerous other instances of the phrase "the word of God" must therefore be a reference to Jesus. Quite clearly that cannot be the case, as those verses would no longer make any sense.

It's like saying because Dwayne Johnson is known as "The Rock", every time someone uses the term "the rock" they are referring to Dwayne Johnson. eg "I sat on The Rock".

 

[swordsman1]

Lol.

For those watching,...

If it was only to be translated one certain way,....... why was I able to find a few translations that were different???

In fact, the 5th century Syriac Peshitta translation from the Greek did just that,...

Rom 8:16 And this Spirit testifieth to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.

So why are there a few translations out there that are different? Are they wrong or is the consensus wrong? How do we know?

We let's see if we can find something in scripture that might help us,..

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all.

How does one have communion/fellowship with The Holy Spirit? Dare I say that He must talk "to" us at points? Let's make sure,....

Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he shall guide you into all the truth: for he shall not speak from himself; but what things soever he shall hear, these shall he speak: and he shall declare unto you the things that are to come.
Joh 16:14 He shall glorify me: for he shall take of mine, and shall declare it unto you.
Joh 16:15 All things whatsoever the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he taketh of mine, and shall declare it unto you.

Is that testifying "to" us as the Greek can also be translated? It most certainly is, and Jesus witnessed it 3 times in that section of scripture.

So how should Romans 8:16 be translated? Like the recent NET bible did,....

Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself bears witness to21 our spirit that we are God's children.

And the scholars involved with the NET bible even provided a commentary on this particular verse,....


Romans 8:16

21 tn Or possibly "with." ExSyn 160-61, however, notes the following:

"At issue, grammatically, is whether the Spirit testifies alongside of our spirit (dat. of association), or whether he testifies to our spirit (indirect object) that we are God's children. If the former, the one receiving this testimony is unstated (is it God? or believers?). If the latter, the believer receives the testimony and hence is assured of salvation via the inner witness of the Spirit. The first view has the advantage of a σύν- (sun-) prefixed verb, which might be expected to take an accompanying dat. of association (and is supported by NEB, JB, etc.). But there are three reasons why πνεύματι (pneumati) should not be taken as association: (1) Grammatically, a dat. with a σύν- prefixed verb does not necessarily indicate association. This, of course, does not preclude such here, but this fact at least opens up the alternatives in this text. (2) Lexically, though συμμαρτυρέω (summartureō) originally bore an associative idea, it developed in the direction of merely intensifying μαρτυρέω (martureō). This is surely the case in the only other NT text with a dat. (Rom_9:1). (3) Contextually, a dat. of association does not seem to support Paul's argument: 'What standing has our spirit in this matter? Of itself it surely has no right at all to testify to our being sons of God' [C. E. B. Cranfield, Romans [ICC], 1:403]. In sum, Rom_8:16 seems to be secure as a text in which the believer's assurance of salvation is based on the inner witness of the Spirit. The implications of this for one's soteriology are profound: The objective data, as helpful as they are, cannot by themselves provide assurance of salvation; the believer also needs (and receives) an existential, ongoing encounter with God's Spirit in order to gain that familial comfort."

They seemed to have dug into the the Greek a little bit more than our native cessationalist friend has, and decided to translate it as "to."

Wow. Out of the dozens of bible versions you can now boast that the "5th century Syriac Peshitta" translation also agrees with you. Whereas 95% of bible version including all the most popular and respected translations all agree with me (ESV, NASB, NIV, RSV, KJV, NKJV, etc, etc). But, well, if the "5th century Syriac Peshitta" version agrees with you, that settles it - all the others are wrong.

You are really grasping at straws.

If the 95% of bibles have it wrong then it is your duty to inform them of their mistake. When the Greek scholars on their translation committees agree with you and change their future editions then we can begin to take your interpretation seriously. Until then, onto the theological scrap heap it goes.

 

[ARBITER01]

Wow. Out of the dozens of bible versions you can now boast that the "5th century Syriac Peshitta" translation also agrees with you. Whereas 95% of bible version including all the most popular and respected translations all agree with me (ESV, NASB, NIV, RSV, KJV, NKJV, etc, etc). But, well, if the "5th century Syriac Peshitta" version agrees with you, that settles it - all the others are wrong.

You are really grasping at straws.

If the 95% of bibles have it wrong then it is your duty to inform them of their mistake. When the Greek scholars on their translation committees agree with you and change their future editions then we can begin to take your interpretation seriously. Until then, onto the theological scrap heap it goes.

Oh that's right, take just one point of the whole and focus on that and forget the rest.

The recent NET bible that I posted about doesn't agree with those other translations, and they had the nads to say so and print it. Ignore it all you want, but bible translations are changing right before you eyes.

And guess what, I'm right.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sorry but it is fallacious reasoning to say that just because Jesus was once referred to as "The Word of God", numerous other instances of the phrase "the word of God" must therefore be a reference to Jesus. Quite clearly that cannot be the case, as those verses would no longer make any sense.

It's like saying because Dwayne Johnson is known as "The Rock", every time someone uses the term "the rock" they are referring to Dwayne Johnson. eg "I sat on The Rock".

again, take that debate up with John, because John is the one who referred to Jesus as the Word, and said by Him all things were created. That is God spoke the Word, the Word created everything.

so according to John, Jesus is the word of God become flesh. Again He's not a physical printed book or scroll that got animated, but in some sense, God spoke the universe into being, and Jesus is given credit as being the creator, and it's not simply by "well Jesus is the Son of God and equivalent with God and so God being the creator Jesus is the creator" The way John wrote it in John 1...

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

so separate things but united, God and His Word.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God made all things with the Word being the agent of creation.

Colossians 1

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Here the subject of the following verses changes from God the Father, to God the Son, Jesus

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

So Paul here is crediting Jesus as the creator. But God the Father is greater than Jesus, according to Himself, and God the Father is also the creator.

Genesis 1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God spoke, and something that didn't exist before existed.

That is what John 1 and Colossians 1 are attributed to Jesus. that God spoke, and the Word of God, the first thing created was the spoken Word of God, was Jesus, and thus Jesus created the light.

That is the theology that John is presenting, and Paul agrees with him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is because the Greek verb summartureó means to testify together WITH someone else ie. as a joint witness.
Here is the proof again....

Strong's Concordance​

summartureó: to testify or bear witness with
Original Word: συμμαρτυρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: summartureó
Phonetic Spelling: (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)
Definition: to testify or bear witness with
Usage: I bear witness together with.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon​

STRONGS NT 4828: συμμαρτυρέω
συμμαρτυρέω, συμμαρτύρω (T WH συνμαρτυρέω (cf. σύν, II. at the end)); to bear witness with, bear joint witness (with one): συμμαρτυρούσης τῆς συνειδήσεως, their conscience also bearing witness, Romans 2:15 (i. e. together with the deeds of the Gentiles, which accord with the law of God and so bear witness (cf. Winer's Grammar, 580 (539))); followed by ὅτι, Romans 9:1 (besides the fact that the close fellowship I have with Christ compels me to tell the truth); τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν, with our spirit already giving its testimony, Romans 8:16. Middle present 1 person singular Συμμαρτυροῦμαι, I testify on my own behalf besides (i. e. besides those things which I have already testified in this book), Revelation 22:18 Rec.; but the true reading here, μαρτυρῶ, was restored by Griesbach (Sophocles, Euripides, Thucydides, Plato, others.)

Together with does not mean together seperate.

Together with does not preclude the notion of being spoken to.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is the Greek word τῷ that can be translated "to the" or "with the". However, notice that the interlinea correctly translates συμμαρτυρεῖ as "is testifying TOGETHER" (the word means to testify together with another person). Now put the 2 words together and what makes more sense: "the Spirit is testifying together with our spirit" or "the Spirit is testifying together to our spirit"?

That is why virtually every bible translation correctly translates it as the former.


As I said before, the idea of the Holy Spirit speaking to us via impressions/feelings/a sixth sense is nowhere to be found in scripture. All the verses that you and your friend have come up with to try and justify otherwise have been easily disproved.

Argued against yes...

You havent proved that God doesn't speak to folks today.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Here seems to be the basis of the argument being put...

Because there is no mention of glasses in scripture, anyone claiming to understand Gods Word by reading Scripture with glasses is deceived.

Such is the fallacy of non-mention.

Apart from that, the phenomena of His servants hearing His voice is well established biblically.

That leaves the issue of how He speaks.

The Holy Spirit often speaks via conviction. This is a sense of wrongness in the conscience. This is often described as a feeling.

God promises to speak to His chosen through visions and dreams.

The Holy Spirit sometimes speaks audibly and this is well supported by scripture.

The disciples sensed a warmth in their hearts when being in the presence of Jesus.

Acts 15:28
For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials

The above scripture is another good example of hearing the Good Will of God through feeling and being in agreement in unity of heart.

The question that needs to be asked is why would any servant of God insist that the Holy Spirit within believers is silent in this age.

Again and again a common experience of those who's lives have been radically transformed by God in this age includes hearing God speak.

The scripture was never meant to be considered exhaustive - it is recorded that Jesus said many things not written.

Sure we must measure the veracity of experience via scripture, but to insist that His written Word is the only channel of communication God is using today is folly.

Sure, there are those who claim 'God said' who are deceived and this is an embarrassment to the faith.

But to rule out God speaking to His servants in this age apart from reading their bibles is a nonsense.

I can sympathise with those who have not experienced the conviction and confirmation of the Holy Spirit within them. This could be associated with a deep inner wound and I would suggest seeking out a church leader for prayer over the matter.

Hearing nothing from God should not be considered 'normal' for those seeking Him sincerely.

Having a conversational relationship with Jesus, who called us friends, is a sign of a healthy walk with Him.

Frankly I think that lack of this exchange grieves His heart.