the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[swordsman1]

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God

Show me from the Greek that 'with' in this verse means 'separate from'

The word "with" does not appear in the Greek. It is part of the Greek verb summartureó, which means to testify together with someone else, as a joint witness.

Strong's Concordance​

summartureó: to testify or bear witness with​

Original Word: συμμαρτυρέω​

Part of Speech: Verb​

Transliteration: summartureó​

Phonetic Spelling: (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)​

Definition: to testify or bear witness with​

Usage: I bear witness together with.​

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Thayer's Greek Lexicon​

STRONGS NT 4828: συμμαρτυρέω​

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συμμαρτυρέω, συμμαρτύρω (T WH συνμαρτυρέω (cf. σύν, II. at the end)); to bear witness with, bear joint witness (with one): συμμαρτυρούσης τῆς συνειδήσεως, their conscience also bearing witness, Romans 2:15 (i. e. together with the deeds of the Gentiles, which accord with the law of God and so bear witness (cf. Winer's Grammar, 580 (539))); followed by ὅτι, Romans 9:1 (besides the fact that the close fellowship I have with Christ compels me to tell the truth); τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν, with our spirit already giving its testimony, Romans 8:16. Middle present 1 person singular Συμμαρτυροῦμαι, I testify on my own behalf besides (i. e. besides those things which I have already testified in this book), Revelation 22:18 Rec.; but the true reading here, μαρτυρῶ, was restored by Griesbach (Sophocles, Euripides, Thucydides, Plato, others.)​

There are 2 witnesses that testify that we are children of God: the Holy Spirit and "our spirit". This verse has nothing to do with God speaking to us.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The word "with" does not appear in the Greek. It is part of the Greek verb summartureó, which means to testify together with someone else, as a joint witness.

Strong's Concordance​

summartureó: to testify or bear witness with​

Original Word: συμμαρτυρέω​

Part of Speech: Verb​

Transliteration: summartureó​

Phonetic Spelling: (soom-mar-too-reh'-o)​

Definition: to testify or bear witness with​

Usage: I bear witness together with.​

​

​

Thayer's Greek Lexicon​

STRONGS NT 4828: συμμαρτυρέω​

​

συμμαρτυρέω, συμμαρτύρω (T WH συνμαρτυρέω (cf. σύν, II. at the end)); to bear witness with, bear joint witness (with one): συμμαρτυρούσης τῆς συνειδήσεως, their conscience also bearing witness, Romans 2:15 (i. e. together with the deeds of the Gentiles, which accord with the law of God and so bear witness (cf. Winer's Grammar, 580 (539))); followed by ὅτι, Romans 9:1 (besides the fact that the close fellowship I have with Christ compels me to tell the truth); τῷ πνεύματι ἡμῶν, with our spirit already giving its testimony, Romans 8:16. Middle present 1 person singular Συμμαρτυροῦμαι, I testify on my own behalf besides (i. e. besides those things which I have already testified in this book), Revelation 22:18 Rec.; but the true reading here, μαρτυρῶ, was restored by Griesbach (Sophocles, Euripides, Thucydides, Plato, others.)​

There are 2 witnesses that testify that we are children of God: the Holy Spirit and "our spirit". This verse has nothing to do with God speaking to us.

How then do you get to know you are a Child of God. From your reasoning this could only be a personal claim.

 

[ARBITER01]

He does not witness internally TO our spirit, but witnesses alongside our spirit ('with' our spirit).

That's interesting.

Do you have an example of this in scripture that we can see this in action?

 

[Carl Emerson]

1 John 2

27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.

Mmmm... Not sure how we can be taught if we can't hear...

 

[swordsman1]

How then do you get to know you are a Child of God. From your reasoning this could only be a personal claim.

Go back 2 verses and it tells you:

Rom 8:13-14 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. ​

If you are able, by the Spirit, to put to death the misdeeds of the body, then you are being led by the Spirit and therefore a child of God.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Personal interpretation eventually collapses like a house of cards when examined by the Scripture, Wisdom, and reason...

Can you imagine having no communication with a friend who indwells ?

Unbelievable...

 

[Carl Emerson]

Go back 2 verses and it tells you:

Rom 8:13-14 For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. ​

If you are able, by the Spirit, to put to death the misdeeds of the body, then you are being led by the Spirit and therefore a child of God.

How can you be led by the Spirit of God if you can't hear him...

Those who have ears to hear.

Rev 2:29 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Some do some don't.

 

[Jamdoc]

Actually,....... you're very wrong about that,....

Galatians 1:11-12​

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King James Version​

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11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.


The whole of the gospel of Jesus Christ was taught directly to Paul by Jesus Himself.

if Paul had been divining new doctrines out of thin air from a voice in his head, the Bereans would have stoned him to death.

It is because the doctrines of Paul ARE found in the old testament that he continued preaching.
and that same gospel is found in Peter and John as well. That's one of the other dangers of modern Charismatics, is they elevate Paul to a station he himself would be appalled of this "Mystical Paul" doctrine.

 

[swordsman1]

1 John 2

27 And as for you, the anointing which you received from Him remains in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you remain in Him.

Mmmm... Not sure how we can be taught if we can't hear...

The "anointing" that "abides in you" in 1 John 2:27 is the same thing that "abides in you" a few verses earlier in v24 and v14, which is referring to the word of God. It is the same Greek word menó.

It cannot refer to the Holy Spirit as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun if he was referring to the Holy Spirit.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The "anointing" that "abides in you" in 1 John 2:27 is the same thing that "abides in you" a few verses earlier in v24 and v14, which is referring to the word of God. It is the same Greek word menó.

It cannot refer to the Holy Spirit as John says that "it has taught you". Whatever taught them was not a person. John would not use the neuter pronoun if he was referring to the Holy Spirit.

So you are saying the the Word of God is not the person - Jesus, as John teaches in His gospel.

 

[ARBITER01]

if Paul had been divining new doctrines out of thin air from a voice in his head, the Bereans would have stoned him to death.

It is because the doctrines of Paul ARE found in the old testament that he continued preaching.
and that same gospel is found in Peter and John as well.

I think you're reaching (while trying to go off topic with your charismatic hatred).

The whole of the NT church teachings came through Paul, not Jesus, and Paul specifically says that he received the teaching of this from Jesus "by revelation." It is sort of hard to say different when scripture is very specific on this.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It is one thing not being able to hear, that can be addressed.

It is another thing to invent a theology that justifies deafness, and teach others.

 

[ARBITER01]

How can you be led by the Spirit of God if you can't hear him...

You can't be.

That's the thing with people teaching from only gleaning scripture without any experience from The Holy Spirit, they end of being wrong most of the time. They end of remaining babes in Christ also.

 

[swordsman1]

How can you be led by the Spirit of God if you can't hear him...

Being "led by the Spirit" has nothing to do with hearing God speak to you by an inner impression. It is being able to overcome, by the Spirit, the sinful misdeeds of the body. The passage says so, and is also confirmed in Gal 5:18 where the same phrase occurs.

Those who have ears to hear.

Rev 2:29 The one who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’

Some do some don't.

What the Spirit says to the churches is the prophecy that John has just received! Not some inner impression!

 

[Carl Emerson]

Being "led by the Spirit" has nothing to do with hearing God speak to you by an inner impression. It is being able to overcome, by the Spirit, the sinful misdeeds of the body. The passage says so, and is also confirmed in Gal 5:18 where the same phrase occurs.


What the Spirit says to the churches is the prophecy that John has just received! Not some inner impression!

Do you have an ear to hear it or not ?

 

[swordsman1]

So you are saying the the Word of God is not the person - Jesus, as John teaches in His gospel.

No, the word of God in 1 John 2 that abides in you is "what you heard from the beginning" v24.

The "word of God" invariably refers to scripture (2 Samuel 16:23, Proverbs 30:5, Mark 7:13, Luke 8:10-12, 1 Cor 14:36, Heb 4:12 , etc, etc, etc)

The "Word" (not "of God") is a name for Christ referred to once by John in John 1:1

 

[ARBITER01]

He does not witness internally TO our spirit, but witnesses alongside our spirit ('with' our spirit).

I'm still waiting on an example of this in scripture from you, do you have any?

 

[swordsman1]

I'm still waiting on an example of this in scripture from you, do you have any?

I have already given you one - Rom 8:16. It says the Spirit bears witness "with" our spirit, not "to" our spirit.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, the word of God in 1 John 2 that abides in you is "what you heard from the beginning" v24.

The "word of God" invariably refers to scripture (2 Samuel 16:23, Proverbs 30:5, Mark 7:13, Luke 8:10-12, 1 Cor 14:36, Heb 4:12 , etc, etc, etc)

The "Word" (not "of God") is a name for Christ referred to once by John in John 1:1

Jesus is the living Word of God.

Should we snip John 1 out of our bibles ?

 

[swordsman1]

Jesus is the living Word of God.

Should we snip John 1 out of our bibles ?

John 1:1 does not say Jesus is the "Word of God".