125 Million-Year old Dinosaur feathers remarkably similar to modern bird feathers

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What did I twist based on what was said?

Against my better judgment, I'll point out your response to Occams Barber's comment in #28, which simply and succintly explained why your definition of evolution is wrong, which was #29 saying 'In other words, there is nothing special about humans in an evolutionary worldview.' had nothing at all to do with what he said, and was a flagrant attempt to twist the comment into something that Occams Barber did not say. That is rude behaviour.

 

[Occams Barber]

In other words, there is nothing special about humans in an evolutionary worldview.

I don't know what you mean by 'special' in this context.

Humans are certainly a unique lifeform - but so is every other form of life. Then again, all forms of life, including humans came about through the same process - so my answer is yes...and no.

As a Christian you will see humans as particularly special based on their relationship with your God.

OB

 

[All Becomes New]

Against my better judgment, I'll point out your response to Occams Barber's comment in #28, which simply and succintly explained why your definition of evolution is wrong, which was #29 saying 'In other words, there is nothing special about humans in an evolutionary worldview.' had nothing at all to do with what he said, and was a flagrant attempt to twist the comment into something that Occams Barber did not say. That is rude behaviour.

I believe humans are special. Think about it in terms of evolution "working up" to humans. If you read my comments from that perspective, I don't think you should view my comments as rude.

 

[All Becomes New]

I don't know what you mean by 'special' in this context.

Humans are certainly a unique lifeform - but so is every other form of life. Then again, all forms of life, including humans came about through the same process - so my answer is yes...and no.

As a Christian you will see humans as particularly special based on their relationship with your God.

OB

Right. So our reasoning faculties are no better than what nature dictates. In other words, our reasoning faculties are not reliable at all.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I believe humans are special. Think about it in terms of evolution "working up" to humans. If you read my comments from that perspective, I don't think you should view my comments as rude.

No, it is still rude, because you're saying something that no-one nor evolutionary science says. You're putting words in other people's mouths.

 

[All Becomes New]

No, it is still rude, because you're saying something that no-one nor evolutionary science says. You're putting words in other people's mouths.

How does life get more complex over time?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

How does life get more complex over time?

Define complex.

 

[All Becomes New]

Define complex.

Difficult to understand for being intricate or involved; complicated.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Difficult to understand for being intricate or involved; complicated.

Let me rephrase: define complex in regards to biological life.

 

[All Becomes New]

Let me rephrase: define complex in regards to biological life.

Intelligence.

 

[Occams Barber]

Right. So our reasoning faculties are no better than what nature dictates. In other words, our reasoning faculties are not reliable at all.

Nature does not dictate anything. Nature is not an entity - it's an abstract term for the natural world.

Our reasoning faculties are the product of a chain of mutations over millions of years affecting how our brains work. There is probably also a culturally acquired component to reasoning. We also share some of our reasoning ability with other species.

As with most human characteristics, our reasoning ability varies from person to person. The level of knowledge and understanding we humans have collected over time suggests that our reasoning faculties are reasonably reliable in spite of the occasional failure to understand.

OB

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Intelligence.

Elephants are intelligent. Chimps and gorillas are intelligent. Corvids are intelligent. Using 'intelligence' as a definition of complex is not a good barometre for any standard since you need to specifically define what you mean by intelligence. Although I can very much that you're trying to angle this towards asking how human intelligence came about.

One word: proteins.

 

[All Becomes New]

Nature does not dictate anything. Nature is not an entity - it's an abstract term for the natural world.

Our reasoning faculties are the product of a chain of mutations over millions of years affecting how our brains work. There is probably also a culturally acquired component to reasoning. We also share some of our reasoning ability with other species.

As with most human characteristics, our reasoning ability varies from person to person. The level of knowledge and understanding we humans have collected over time suggests that our reasoning faculties are reasonably reliable in spite of the occasional failure to understand.

OB

Thanks, you put that well. What I meant to say is that if evolution is just a blind process, then there is nothing saying our reasoning should be acclimated to having accurate perceptions at all. In other words, in a naturalistic universe, there is no reason to think humans should be adept at truth-seeking. If the only thing that matters is survival, then we don't need to be able to perceive truth at all.

 

[All Becomes New]

One word: proteins.

How did the proteins develop? Something had to be an external cause to intelligence. That is what I am asking about.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

How did the proteins develop? Something had to be an external cause to intelligence. That is what I am asking about.

Proteins in meat enabled and aided the development of the human brain through our evolution, allowing our capacity for intelligent thought to expand to what it is now.

If you want to ask about any other external causes, then you're stepping outside of the realm of science and thus can be ignored since it won't be scientific.

 

[All Becomes New]

Proteins in meat enabled and aided the development of the human brain through our evolution, allowing our capacity for intelligent thought to expand to what it is now.

If you want to ask about any other external causes, then you're stepping outside of the realm of science and thus can be ignored since it won't be scientific.

I thought life adapts to the environment in evolution. So how is what I am asking unscientific?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I thought life adapts to the environment in evolution. So how is what I am asking unscientific?

Asking for an 'external cause to intelligence' is fishing for a non-scientific answer. I have given the scientific answer in post #55, which you ignored.

 

[All Becomes New]

Asking for an 'external cause to intelligence' is fishing for a non-scientific answer. I have given the scientific answer in post #55, which you ignored.

I thought it would be better not to ask where this meat comes from.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

I thought it would be better not to ask where this meat comes from.

Why? The obvious answer is animals that ancient humans hunted.

 

[Occams Barber]

If the only thing that matters is survival, then we don't need to be able to perceive truth at all.

By "perceiving truth" I assume you mean reliable reasoning skills. 'Truth' is a complex topic depending on how you're using the term.

Understanding how things work is a significant survival skill. Understanding your environment (weather, wildlife, flora etc.) allows you to use it to your advantage and minimise risk. This applies whether we're tracking gnus or building computers.

You need to avoid trying to define evolutionary success in terms of what humans are good at. Saying that humans do human things better than non-humans (i.e., other animals) is non-sensical.

OB