Israel-Hamas Thread II

[ralliann]

nine members of the Arab League recognise Israel: Bahrain, Egypt, Jordan, Mauritania, Morocco, Oman, Sudan, United Arab Emirates and Palestine

Well now you know Palestinian government officials lied. Like the Nazis, they didnt put Jew's in ovens, and torture camps. Not at all

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well now you know Palestinian government officials lied.

I know no such thing.

The State of Palestine =/= Hamas

 

[Valletta]

Palestinian leaders, such as President Mahmoud Abbas and Yasser Arafat, have recognized Israel as legitimate in the past.

Arafat and the Jewish State: Setting the Record Straight

To say that Arafat recognized Israel as the Jewish state is a clear distortion of the historical record. - Setting the Record Straight

jcpa.org

 

[ralliann]

Arafat and the Jewish State: Setting the Record Straight

To say that Arafat recognized Israel as the Jewish state is a clear distortion of the historical record. - Setting the Record Straight

jcpa.org

Yes it is. The Attack of Hamas is enough to prove they want Jew's dead and gone.

 

[JosephZ]

Arafat and the Jewish State: Setting the Record Straight

To say that Arafat recognized Israel as the Jewish state is a clear distortion of the historical record. - Setting the Record Straight

jcpa.org

"Definitely," says Yasser Arafat, waving his arm for emphasis. He definitely understands and accepts that Israel must be, and must stay, a Jewish state. The Palestinians "accepted that openly and officially in 1988 at our Palestine National Council," and they remain completely committed to it.

"Definitely" was a word that kept recurring in our two-hour, free-wheeling conversation, which took place almost entirely in English with the chairman of the Palestinian Authority at his headquarters-cum-jail, the Muqata, in Ramallah on Tuesday.

You understand that Israel has to keep being a Jewish state?

"Definitely."

"Definitely, I told them we had accepted openly and officially in `88 in our PNC."

"Joseph and his father and his brothers were living beside Nablus. It is historically or not ...

That's in the Bible.

"It is in our Koran. The holy story of Joseph before he went to Egypt, in our Koran, in the tales. Who can say, therefore, that there is no relation [between the Jews and the land]? Do you forget that we are not calling you our cousins? Actually you are my cousin. I am from Abraham, Hagar, my grandmother was Hagar, and you are from Sara ... yes or no?

Yes, I believe that, and do you believe that?

"Definitely. This is my grandfather - Abraham ... your grandfather, and he's my grandfather also. You are from ... Yitzhak and Jacob. So it is clear, historically."

A Jewish state? `Definitely'

Arafat is ready to sign an agreement that would give Palestinians 97 per cent of the West Bank and Gaza - with the rest in a land swap, and the right of return of not all, but at least some refugees. In a free-ranging interview with Haaretz, conducted in the carefully preserved ruins of the...

www.haaretz.com

 

[ralliann]

"Definitely," says Yasser Arafat, waving his arm for emphasis. He definitely understands and accepts that Israel must be, and must stay, a Jewish state. The Palestinians "accepted that openly and officially in 1988 at our Palestine National Council," and they remain completely committed to it.

"Definitely" was a word that kept recurring in our two-hour, free-wheeling conversation, which took place almost entirely in English with the chairman of the Palestinian Authority at his headquarters-cum-jail, the Muqata, in Ramallah on Tuesday.

You understand that Israel has to keep being a Jewish state?

"Definitely."

"Definitely, I told them we had accepted openly and officially in `88 in our PNC."

"Joseph and his father and his brothers were living beside Nablus. It is historically or not ...

That's in the Bible.

"It is in our Koran. The holy story of Joseph before he went to Egypt, in our Koran, in the tales. Who can say, therefore, that there is no relation [between the Jews and the land]? Do you forget that we are not calling you our cousins? Actually you are my cousin. I am from Abraham, Hagar, my grandmother was Hagar, and you are from Sara ... yes or no?

Yes, I believe that, and do you believe that?

"Definitely. This is my grandfather - Abraham ... your grandfather, and he's my grandfather also. You are from ... Yitzhak and Jacob. So it is clear, historically."

A Jewish state? `Definitely'

Arafat is ready to sign an agreement that would give Palestinians 97 per cent of the West Bank and Gaza - with the rest in a land swap, and the right of return of not all, but at least some refugees. In a free-ranging interview with Haaretz, conducted in the carefully preserved ruins of the...

www.haaretz.com

They say Ishmael was heir in the Koran, not Isaac. He mentioned Egypt, but not coming out to inherit the holy land. But that he was around, so you cannot say no connection. What he says can be taken for a slight.

 

[JosephZ]

They say Ishmael was heir in the Koran, not Isaac.

The Qur'an teaches that the Children of Israel are the heirs.

We made a covenant with the Children of Israel: “Worship none but God; and be good to parents, and relatives, and orphans, and the needy; and speak nicely to people; and pray regularly, and give alms.” Then you turned away, except for a few of you, recanting. (Qur'an 2:83)

O children of Israel! Remember My favors to you; fulfil your covenant with Me and I will fulfil My covenant with you, that you should fear none but Me. Believe in My revelations, which are confirming your scriptures; do not be the first one to deny My revelations, and do not sell them for a petty price, fear Me and Me alone. Do not mix the Truth with falsehood, or knowingly conceal the truth. (Qur’an 2:40-42)

“O Children of Israel! Remember the special favor which I bestowed upon you; that I exalted you above all other nations.” (Qur’an;2:122)

God received a covenant with the Children of Israel, and We raised up from them twelve of their leaders, and God said: 'Behold, I am with you; if you perform the prayer, and pay the alms, and believe in My messengers and support them, and lend God a loan of righteousness; I will remit your sins, and admit you into Gardens beneath which rivers flow. Whosoever of you disbelieves thereafter has indeed gone astray from the right way. (Quran 5:12)

When Moses said to his people, “O my people, remember God’s blessings upon you, when He placed prophets among you, and made you kings, and gave you what He never gave any other people. O my people, enter the Holy Land which God has assigned for you, and do not turn back, lest you return as losers.” (Qur'an 5:20-21)

We said to the Children of Israel, “Inhabit the land, and when the promise of the Hereafter arrives, We will bring you all together.” (Qur'an 17:104)

We made the oppressed people inherit the eastern and western parts of the land, which We had blessed. Thus the fair promise of your Lord to the Children of Israel was fulfilled, because of their endurance. And We destroyed what Pharaoh and his people had built, and what they had harvested. And We delivered the Children of Israel across the sea. (Qur'an 7:137-138)

 

[Carl Emerson]

There is a pattern being played out.

Terrorise Israel - take hostages - demand the release of jailed terrorist criminals.

Same plan as at the Munich Olympics which was masterminded by Neo-Nazi Willi Pohl and carried out by a group under Arafat's Fatah.

 

[ralliann]

The Qur'an teaches that the Children of Israel are the heirs.

While the Tawrat (the Arabic-language name for the Torah within its context as an Islamic holy book), mentions that it was Isaac who was bound, some Muslims believe that Abraham was told to sacrifice his other son, Ishmael, though the Qur'an does not mention the name of the son. The multiple versions suggest that the dhabih was originally an oral story that had been circulating before being written as it is in the Qur'an and in additional commentaries


Ge 21:10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.

 

[ralliann]

There is a pattern being played out.

Terrorise Israel - take hostages - demand the release of jailed terrorist criminals.

Same plan as at the Munich Olympics which was masterminded by Neo-Nazi Willi Pohl and carried out by a group under Arafat's Fatah.

Why not? People are supporting them operating like this. It is not even the Jewish hostages people are upset about, they could care less. , but Palestinian civilians. So if it works, why not continue? It is really amazingly wicked.

 

[ralliann]

I know no such thing.

The State of Palestine =/= Hamas

Well yeah Hamas are governing officials now. And you can ignore such thing as you choose.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Well yeah Hamas are governing officials now.

I do not ignore that they are the de facto rulers of Gaza, but they are not the Palestinian Authority that recognized Israel (and was recognized in return).

 

[JosephZ]

Israel’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a cease-fire deal with the Hamas militant group that would bring a temporary halt to a devastating war that has stretched on for over six weeks and release dozens of hostages being held in the Gaza Strip in exchange for Palestinians in Israeli prisons.

Under the deal, Hamas is to free 50 of the roughly 240 hostages it is holding in the Gaza Strip over a four-day period, the Israeli government said Wednesday. It said it would extend the lull by an additional day for every 10 hostages released.

The government said the first hostages to be released would be women and children.

Ahead of Wednesday morning’s Cabinet vote, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Israel would resume its offensive against Hamas after the cease-fire expires.

It was not immediately clear when the truce would go into effect.

Israeli Cabinet approves truce for hostages deal with Hamas; Palestinian prisoners also to be freed

Israel’s Cabinet on Wednesday approved a temporary cease-fire with the Hamas militant group that is expected to bring the first halt in fighting in a devastating six-week war and win freedom for dozens of hostages held captive in the Gaza Strip, in exchange for the release of Palestinians...

www.pbs.org

 

[wing2000]

“The Israeli government is committed to bringing all the hostages home,” the government said.

It added: “Tonight, the government approved the framework for the first stage of achieving this goal, under which at least 50 hostages — women and children — will be released over 4 days, during which there will be a pause in the fighting. The release of every 10 additional hostages will result in an additional day in the pause.”

Less than an hour later, Hamas announced in a statement on Telegram that it had agreed to a four-day cease-fire that would allow for 50 hostages to be exchanged for 150 Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

...

The deal cannot be enacted until Thursday at the earliest, to allow time for Israeli judges to review potential legal challenges to the prisoner release, according to Israeli officials.

Israel-Hamas War: Israel and Hamas Agree to Cease-Fire for Release of Hostages (Published 2023)

The agreement calls for a pause in fighting for at least four days and for Hamas to release at least 50 hostages. Qatar’s government, a mediator, confirmed the framework.

www.nytimes.com

 

[ralliann]

“The Israeli government is committed to bringing all the hostages home,” the government said.

It added: “Tonight, the government approved the framework for the first stage of achieving this goal, under which at least 50 hostages — women and children — will be released over 4 days, during which there will be a pause in the fighting. The release of every 10 additional hostages will result in an additional day in the pause.”

Less than an hour later, Hamas announced in a statement on Telegram that it had agreed to a four-day cease-fire that would allow for 50 hostages to be exchanged for 150 Palestinian prisoners held by Israel.

...

The deal cannot be enacted until Thursday at the earliest, to allow time for Israeli judges to review potential legal challenges to the prisoner release, according to Israeli officials.

Israel-Hamas War: Israel and Hamas Agree to Cease-Fire for Release of Hostages (Published 2023)

The agreement calls for a pause in fighting for at least four days and for Hamas to release at least 50 hostages. Qatar’s government, a mediator, confirmed the framework.

www.nytimes.com

Hamas has 200 hostages, and wants 150 palestinians in Jewish jails for commiting crimes agaist Israelis.?
Then 10 hostages (innocent civilians) at a time for 150 I dont know how Israel can agree to those terms. Who knows how many they really have that are still alive. They took old people (probably on meds) Babes, children, and many were seriously injured from the attack.

 

[Pommer]

Given that you present as and arch cynic there seems little likelihood of fruitful dialogue.

“Be reasonable and see it my way”, doesn’t work for either party in a debate, no.

 

[Pommer]

Do you know nothing of history? There never was any Palestine for a start. The region was controlled by the Roman empire, by the Muslims, then the Ottoman empire. The Ottomans lost control at the end of WW1. It was then administered by the British. The UN approved a plan for two states, Israel and Palestine. Israel declared independence in May 1948. It was completely legal. So no, Israel did not get a pass. They had the right to be where they were. The original territory they were supposed to enjoy was much reduced, courtesy of British betrayal and double dealing. FYI, I'm English so I'm not biased.

Blaming Israel for the situation is absurd. Get a pass? No other nation gets scrutinised as Israel does. Where is the outrage against Russia, Syria, Turkey and much of North Africa?

Even today Israel doesn’t lay claim to Gaza; they have allowed many settlers into the West Bank though, like they “own” it.

 

[Pommer]

No, I said "It is the path that the Gazans chose." and meant exactly that. We have a saying here: 'Elections have consequences.' The Gazans are finding that out first hand.

17 years after their last election.

 

[Pommer]

It's also much different than stating flatly they have "committed no crimes" as if it's a proven fact.

Investigation first, conclusion second.

Something something Comer, something impeachment inquiry.

 

[truthpls]

It's referendum enough that they have still not turned on hamas.

No. A population has been relocated forcibly, and bombed relentlessly they are in no shape to try and find terrorists and scold them

The Gazans remind me of mafia thugs backing the bosses no matter how bad it gets.....until, that is, THEY get confronted. My hope is the Gazans will get confronted even harder until they give up hamas.

Confrontation is not bombing their civilians. That is terrorizing them