Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Pommer]

The conflict started around 1022 B.C.

Hamas has not yet rendered the hospital inoperable. The Israelis need to stop Hamas from killing patients and allow the doctors to continue their work.

Who do you think runs the hospitals in Gaza when Hamas is not doing terrorist stuff?

 

[essentialsaltes]

How do you know they were not killed by Hamas?

The Israeli government would be shouting it from the rooftops if they had.

 

[Bradskii]

It is the path that the Gazans chose.

Surely you meant Hamas. But then again, there seems to be so much confusion about who is a terrorist, who lives in Gaza, who is Palestinian, the number dead, whether they were guilty or not because of the 'path they chose.' So much confusion, eh?

But I guess we can discount all those who have been killed if it was the path they chose. They don't count. Because they chose that path. Because they chose to live in Gaza. Because it absolves anyone else for the tragedy.

 

[Canuckster]

Look, I'm not buying it. There were plenty of Americans who believed 911 was allowed to happen. Or that the government was even in on it. I know there were people who also believe that Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen too. Just because you are Jewish doesn't mean you can't have conspiracy theorists. They are people too.

he's stating facts.... to allow guys with pickup trucks and hand gliders 7 hours to kill and then take hostages and escape back across the border unscathed is solid evidence that it was allowed to happen.

 

[Bradskii]

Too bad their children have to suffer for their parents stupidity.

Too bad? Too bad!?

I can't respond as I would like to comments like that.

 

[Aussie Pete]

One could always argue that an adult bore some responsibility for the position in which they found themself. They were fighting, they wanted to fight, they were supporting those that were fighting either physically or emotionally or politically or morally, they wanted to make a stand...lots of reasons why someone might argue that they brought their death upon themselves.

That's not the case with children. They cannot be blamed in any way whatsoever.

No sane person would suggest that children are being deliberately targeted. But the question being asked is how to justify actions that nevertheless result in so many deaths. At what point does someone say 'enough.'

When Hamas no longer has the capacity to sacrifce Gazans for its cause or attack Israel, as it has since being elected in 2006. If that is not achieved, the conflict, and therefore the suffering, will continue indefinitely. The Arabs started this in 1948, the moment that Israel declared statehood. They could end the conflict this minute. They won't. Erdogan was right, this is a war between Christianity and Islam. The physical aspect is being played out in Gaza, the spiritual aspect is the responsibility of Christians.

 

[Aussie Pete]

he's stating facts.... to allow guys with pickup trucks and hand gliders 7 hours to kill and then take hostages and escape back across the border unscathed is solid evidence that it was allowed to happen.

Facts are facts. All you have is assertions and conspiracy theory. You seem to forget that it was Yom Kippur and most of the army was on leave at the time. Personally, I think that was a terrible decision. However, that does not mean that there was a deliberate plot to allow Hamas to attack. Pearl Harbor was attacked on a Sunday for the same reason. The Japanese knew that the base would be more lightly defended. Hamas had many spies in Israel, 18,000 workers who gave information on the softest targets. It was a good plan and well executed.

 

[Bradskii]

When Hamas no longer has the capacity to sacrifce Gazans for its cause or attack Israel, as it has since being elected in 2006. If that is not achieved, the conflict, and therefore the suffering, will continue indefinitely.

Then that appears to be acceptable to you. No other options, except 'the suffering will continue indefinitely.'

Thanks for your input. I'm sure it will be appreciated.

 

[Aussie Pete]

No more than Santa is responsible. The ones firing the bombs that kill the people are responsible totally. Why they claim to do it doesn't matter at all.

If you jump out in front of a car and the driver kills you, the driver is not responsible. You brought your death on yourself. My wife was involved in exactly that situation. The inquest found her innocent of any offence. So I say again, Hamas is responsible. If you can't see that, you are blind. You want truth (doubtful) you've now got it.

 

[Bradskii]

As long as you are following international law in these matters then the amount of civilian casualties doesn't matter.

There are rules. There are regulations. There are laws. It's obvious that you think that applying any of these means that you can ignore any moral considerations.

Do you really want to hold to that position? Are you actually making that argument? Seriously?

 

[Aussie Pete]

Then that appears to be acceptable to you. No other options, except 'the suffering will continue indefinitely.'

Thanks for your input. I'm sure it will be appreciated.

OK, so what is your plan, one that does not mean the end of Israel as a nation? You must have one. Of course, you would not criticise and condemn without offering a viable alternative. Otherwise, you would be a hypocrite.

 

[Aussie Pete]

Who do you think runs the hospitals in Gaza when Hamas is not doing terrorist stuff?

Hamas runs the hospitals.

 

[Pommer]

When Hamas no longer has the capacity to sacrifce Gazans for its cause or attack Israel, as it has since being elected in 2006. If that is not achieved, the conflict, and therefore the suffering, will continue indefinitely. The Arabs started this in 1948, the moment that Israel declared statehood. They could end the conflict this minute. They won't. Erdogan was right, this is a war between Christianity and Islam. The physical aspect is being played out in Gaza, the spiritual aspect is the responsibility of Christians.

I think that Israel declaring “statehood” was taken as a provocation…but it’s Israel, so they “get a pass”?

 

[Pommer]

Hamas runs the hospitals.

But we’ve been told over and over again that “Hamas is evil”; how does a wholly evil enterprise run hospitals?

 

[truthpls]

If you jump out in front of a car and the driver kills you, the driver is not responsible. You brought your death on yourself. My wife was involved in exactly that situation. The inquest found her innocent of any offence. So I say again, Hamas is responsible. If you can't see that, you are blind. You want truth (doubtful) you've now got it.

The children did not jump in front of the car. The car drove in and mowed them down. Not only them but apparently some of the Israeli hostages as well.

 

[Bradskii]

OK, so what is your plan, one that does not mean the end of Israel as a nation? You must have one. Of course, you would not criticise and condemn without offering a viable alternative. Otherwise, you would be a hypocrite.

It's not that I should need one. It's the very fact that there is more than one option! And you don't get to wait for me to suggest any number of possible solutions just so that you can enjoy dismantling each and any one for whavever specious reasons you'd like to employ.

To ask 'What are the other options' is almost to admit that you can't conceive of any that doesn't result in a massive numbers of civilian deaths. You could suggest any other but you prefer the current one. Which has resulted in the deaths of some 4,000 children. In what kind of world do you live in where that is the best option available? Do you want to admit that it's not the best? Or that it is?

If it is then say It plainly. That the deaths don't matter, only the end result. If it's an option that you don't want, and surely no sane person wants these deaths, then supply an alternative. Or at leasr call a halt until you can think of one.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But we’ve been told over and over again that “Hamas is evil”; how does a wholly evil enterprise run hospitals?

Even sinners love those who love them...

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think that Israel declaring “statehood” was taken as a provocation…but it’s Israel, so they “get a pass”?

Britain partitioned Land for Israel and Land for the 'Palestinians' back in 48 - there was no provocation - both peoples had the same opportunity.

 

[Robban]

The Arab peoples come from Ishmael. They are some of the first Christians, mentioned in the New Testament Book of Acts. Muhammad invented Islam much later.

I missed out on the dates, by a thousand years or so, you said 8 century, I was thinking a little wonky.

 

[Carl Emerson]

You were insinuating it by saying this: 'How many of the alleged 4000 were forced in harms way by Hamas?'

Implying that it was then Hamas fault and it exonerates Israel. 'Hey, if they keep putting them in the way then we'll just have to keep killing them. Not our fault...'

This has become an exceptionally depressing thread.

The target is Hamas not the civilians.