Israel-Hamas Thread II

[civilwarbuff]

The details are there for you to check. It's up to you if you want to do so or not. Blanket denial is simply blanket denial.

So they didn't go there and count the bodies......got it.

 

[civilwarbuff]

An interesting concept. Something outside the control of Hamas and overseen by (supposedly) neutral countries only interested in providing medical care. Comments?

 

[Bradskii]

So they didn't go there and count the bodies......got it.

No, I don't think you have. Because you never read those reports so you don't know how they collate the death toll. Maybe it's better for you to deny the figures. They are exceptionally grim. And presumably you agree. Else why try to deny them? Can you explain what's wrong with them should they be proved to be accurate?

 

[civilwarbuff]

No, I don't think you have. Because you never read those reports so you don't know how they collate the death toll. Maybe it's better for you to deny the figures. They are exceptionally grim. And presumably you agree. Else why try to deny them? Can you explain what's wrong with them should they be proved to be accurate?

I asked a simple question: Did they go there and count the bodies?.....Or did they simply accept the the Hamas ministry of health's numbers. So far, you have refused to answer that simple question. Therefore, I have to assume the answer is no. It is very simple.

 

[Bradskii]

I asked a simple question: Did they go there and count the bodies?.....Or did they simply accept the the Hamas ministry of health's numbers. So far, you have refused to answer that simple question. Therefore, I have to assume the answer is no. It is very simple.

I said earlier I was not going to repeat what I've previously posted simply because people couldn't be bothered to read it the first time. That stands. You apply whatever criteria you think best suits whatever you think you need.

But the question remains: If Israel needs to do whatever it takes, then why are you arguing about the numbers?

That has become a rhetorical question as I realise I'm not going to get an answer. But I'll let it hang there so others can see it and note any lack of response.

 

[civilwarbuff]

But the question remains: If Israel needs to do whatever it takes, then why are you arguing about the numbers?

I am not arguing about the current numbers. I am pointing out that you are basing your comments on and willing to accept the current 'estimated' (yes estimated) numbers on the fact that you accept Hamas' ministry of health numbers with no way of validating them except, of course, from previous numbers given to UN/gov't officials who were never able/willing/or simply too lazy to go verify them for themselves (as in counting the bodies). I don't accept Israel's number of Hamas killed unless they will stand up and say they know because they have the actual bodies......until then, it is nothing more than a guess (and probably not a very accurate one at that); one that Hamas will always try to use to their advantage.

 

[Bradskii]

I am not arguing about the current numbers. I am pointing out that you are basing your comments on and willing to accept the current 'estimated' (yes estimated) numbers on the fact that you accept Hamas' ministry of health numbers with no way of validating them except, of course, from previous numbers given to UN/gov't officials who were never able/willing/or simply too lazy to go verify them for themselves (as in counting the bodies). I don't accept Israel's number of Hamas killed unless they will stand up and say they know because they have the actual bodies......until then, it is nothing more than a guess (and probably not a very accurate one at that); one that Hamas will always try to use to their advantage.

You are most definitely arguing the numbers. You've done nothing but cast doubt on the ones given by the Ministry of Health as soon as they were posted. Please don't try to kid anyone that your only interest is numerical accuracy for the sake of accuracy. As you just said 'one that Hamas will always try to use to their advantage.' You just admitted that high numbers are a disadvantage to your position.

If Israel can do whatever it can to 'win' (and there are scare quotes there because nobody wins in these situations) then the numbers are irrelevant. Yet your every post says that they are. I agree. Four thousand dead children are quite 'relevant.'

 

[Carl Emerson]

Apparently, "they started it" is now a moral position.

This is the "it"...

Israeli police say extreme sexual violence, rape by Hamas terrorists was systematic

While no victims of sex crimes by Hamas Oct. 7 have come forward, police say they have documented multiple cases and are investigating brutal crimes against women.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Bradskii]

This is the "it"...

Israeli police say extreme sexual violence, rape by Hamas terrorists was systematic

While no victims of sex crimes by Hamas Oct. 7 have come forward, police say they have documented multiple cases and are investigating brutal crimes against women.

www.foxnews.com

Carl, what Hamas did was unforgiveable. And a price needs to be paid. But let's assume for the moment that the death toll given by the Ministry of Health is somewhat accurate. And that in the region of four thousand children have been killed so far. Could you ever have agreed, before any response was made, that that was a price that was acceptable? In what sort of world would anyone sane person agree to that?

 

[Valletta]

Carl, what Hamas did was unforgiveable. And a price needs to be paid. But let's assume for the moment that the death toll given by the Ministry of Health is somewhat accurate. And that in the region of four thousand children have been killed so far. Could you ever have agreed, before any response was made, that that was a price that was acceptable? In what sort of world would anyone sane person agree to that?

Palestinian Authority claims Israel, not Hamas, committed Re'im massacre​

Palestinian Authority claims Israel, not Hamas, committed Re'im massacre

They claim this was after the Hannibal Directive was activated, which "allowed the occupation police and army to kill everyone."

www.jpost.com

You have to choose whether the Palestinians are telling the truth or Israel is telling the truth. One party is definitely out to kill children and/or lie about it, the other avoids killing children. One party slaughtered the Israelis, the other was horrified.

 

[truthpls]

We weren't at war with Oswald. Apples Oranges.

We? I do not consider collective punishment to be 'war'. Try fighting adults rather than blowing up kids

 

[Carl Emerson]

I

Carl, what Hamas did was unforgiveable. And a price needs to be paid. But let's assume for the moment that the death toll given by the Ministry of Health is somewhat accurate. And that in the region of four thousand children have been killed so far. Could you ever have agreed, before any response was made, that that was a price that was acceptable? In what sort of world would anyone sane person agree to that?

I prefer not to enter into discussions based on assumptions.

However that level of violence against innocents needs to be stamped out.

 

[Bradskii]

Palestinian Authority claims Israel, not Hamas, committed Re'im massacre​

Palestinian Authority claims Israel, not Hamas, committed Re'im massacre

They claim this was after the Hannibal Directive was activated, which "allowed the occupation police and army to kill everyone."

www.jpost.com

You have to choose whether the Palestinians are telling the truth or Israel is telling the truth. One party is definitely out to kill children and/or lie about it, the other avoids killing children. One party slaughtered the Israelis, the other was horrified.

I said what I said quite clearly. I'll say it again. If we assume the figures are correct, could you have agreed that it was a price that should be paid.

Now nobody knows exactly how many children have been killed. We may never have an exact number. But having read what other independent authorities have said about the Ministry of Health, my opinion is that their numbers are not going to be wildly off. So IF the numbers are correct, or even roughly correct, then would you have said right from the start 'Yes, that's a price that's worth paying.'

It's a simple question.

 

[truthpls]

So you can't or won't answer the question. That's all you had to say instead of waste our time.

I did answer a few times and perfectly clear. There is NO connection to unbelieving Israel today and ANYTHING God says or told anyone to do. Period.

 

[truthpls]

Wasn't a reference to now. Get your time lines straight.

All that matters is whether they believe or not. Since they do not believe now there is no point trying to speak about what happened to believers in the past.

And you know that because you are in direct communication with God about that subject?

Yes. We Have His direct words in Scripture

 

[civilwarbuff]

I did answer a few times and perfectly clear. There is NO connection to unbelieving Israel today and ANYTHING God says or told anyone to do. Period.

Your opinion is duly noted.

 

[truthpls]

Your opinion is duly noted.

No need for opinion, the bible tells us what happens to Israel in the end, and when they will be saved and when He again will be their God and protect them etc.

 

[Bradskii]

I prefer not to enter into discussions based on assumptions.

Then the assumption is obviously too high. I think it's plain enough that if I'd have said 'assume that a dozen or so civilian deaths might result from an Israeli response' then no-one would have batted an eyelid. Most people would have accepted that as an unfortunate result of war. Hey, collateral damage. People get killed. Get real! I am absolutely certain everyone would have agreed it would be unfortunate, but necessary.

But up the numbers and there's a change in attitude. Throw children into the mix and people baulk. Suggest that the numbers of children killed are well into the hundreds and there's a lot of feet shuffling going on. Suggest it could be thousands and people start questioning the accuracy of the figures for some reason. Doesn't Israel need to do whatever it takes? So wouldn't you agree to it?

Silence.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Yes. We Have His direct words in Scripture

And scripture tells you God is finished with Israel because they rejected Jesus?

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Bradskii

And video evidence shows that Hamas and purposely exposing children to danger ?