Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Vanellus]

Wikipedia is not a reliable source for any matter where there is a difference of opinion. Any Hamas member can go on wikipedia and write what he wants.

There are multiple external references cited.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Latest report is that 7 of the 36 premature babies have now died - the al Shifa hospital did not have the fuel to power them.

Well, if Hamas had stolen much of the diesel fuel......etc, etc, etc.....

 

[wing2000]

I suspect Hamas does have military a tunnel network and military assets under the hospital simply because that is unquestionably their MO: To place their military assets near hospitals, schools, mosque etc. Israel (and the US) are certainly not going to share intelligence that will compromise ongoing military operations.

 

[Vanellus]

My apologies for the extreme plagiarism........

I'm beginning to wonder that if Israel proves Hamas is using all the hospitals they have claimed they are using, then posters who have asserted that these hospitals are not being used by Hamas will slope off rather than acknowledge they were wrong.

I have never made that assertion but I do not automatically accept IDF claims. Do you?

 

[Vanellus]

Well, if Hamas had stolen much of the diesel fuel......etc, etc, etc.....

As you say if but if Israel hadn't cut power supplies to Gaza etc. etc. etc.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I have never made that assertion but I do not automatically accept IDF claims. Do you?

Since they usually back-up their claims with physical evidence.......yeah. More dependable than the the empty claims of innocence from Hamas don't you think?

 

[civilwarbuff]

As you say if but if Israel hadn't cut power supplies to Gaza etc. etc. etc.

That's what you do in war. You disrupt the enemy's ability to function normally......and yes, civilians are also affected by it. Plus, after having worked 30+ years in a hospital that is why you have generators......of course, you don't expect a terrorist organization to 'appropriate' your diesel fuel.....but stuff happens in war. Blame Hamas for the hospital power outages.......

 

[Vanellus]

Since they usually back-up their claims with physical evidence.......yeah. More dependable than the the empty claims of innocence from Hamas don't you think?

Have you seen this physical evidence? I've only quoted a doctor who worked in Gaza. I haven't quoted Hamas. What is your authority for your claim?

 

[civilwarbuff]

Have you seen this physical evidence?

Yep, you should watch the IDF briefings on Youtube, usually 1-3 times a day......very frequently their talks are accompanied by video and photographic evidence.
BTW, I NEVER accept Hamas' word on anything. They are known and proven liars......

 

[Vanellus]

That's what you do in war. You disrupt the enemy's ability to function normally......and yes, civilians are also affected by it. Plus, after having worked 30+ years in a hospital that is why you have generators......of course, you don't expect a terrorist organization to 'appropriate' your diesel fuel.....but stuff happens in war. Blame Hamas for the hospital power outages.......

Apart from IDF assertions what is your evidence that Hamas has appropriated the generator fuel - and are you sure that generator fuel can be used to fuel rockets?

Ys it's a real shame about the over 12000 Gazans who have been killed (an underestimate according to US authorties) including about 6000 children. I'm sure the Israeli authorities are really upset about it

[The way to deal with Palestinians is to] beat them up, not once but repeatedly, beat them up so it hurts so badly, until it's unbearable."​

– Benjamin Netanyahu, current prime minister, while in the opposition following his first term as prime minister, caught on video speaking to Israeli settlers, 2001.

very statesmanlike

• "Our soldiers are the only innocents in Gaza. Under no circumstances should they be killed because of false morality that prefers to protect enemy civilians. One hair on the head of an Israeli soldier is more precious than the entire Gazan populace, which elected the Hamas and supports and encourages anyone who murders Israelis."​

  – Then-deputy speaker of the Israeli parliament (Knesset) from Netanyahu's Likud party, Moshe Feiglin, 2014.

So much for those premature babies then

“[Palestinians] are beasts, they are not human.”​

- Then-deputy minister of religious services and current deputy minister of defense, Rabbi Eli Ben-Dahan, 2013.

Well no need to worry about casualty figures then! Bombs away kill them all - yeehaa

An Israeli lawmaker has called for a nuclear strike in the Gaza Strip after Hamas launched a massive terrorist attack over the weekend.Revital "Tally" Gotliv, a member of the right-wing Likud party in Israel's Parliament the Knesset, has called on social media for Gaza to be wiped off the map

Israeli politician calls for 'Doomsday' missiles to be dropped on Hamas and Gaza

 

[Vanellus]

Yep, you should watch the IDF briefings on Youtube, usually 1-3 times a day......very frequently their talks are accompanied by video and photographic evidence.
BTW, I NEVER accept Hamas' word on anything. They are known and proven liars......

I've seen these IDF guys on UK news programmes. They don't stand up to scrutiny and come across poorly verging on the unhinged when asked reasonable questions.

 

[Vanellus]

Ok so in the IDF video at the top of their Youtube page we have an item at about 10:00 on the video labelled Hamas' exploitation of Gaza's hospitals. There is an item about an alleged tunnel entrance at the Qatari hospital. This has been debunked in this video:

 

[Valletta]

Try changing something substantial in any article on Wikipedia and time how fast it is reverted.

Exactly. If you tried to correct what a Hamas member wrote, the Hamas guy and his followers could revert it right back. I have had many dealings with the Washington establishment and news, news type entities, and so-called "historians." Propaganda is a tool of terrorists.

 

[Pommer]

Exactly. If you tried to correct what a Hamas member wrote, the Hamas guy and his followers could revert it right back.

Uh huh

 

[civilwarbuff]

Apart from IDF assertions what is your evidence that Hamas has appropriated the generator fuel -

If you have been following news and briefings you should know that is common knowledge.

and are you sure that generator fuel can be used to fuel rockets?

Never talked about that.....

Ys it's a real shame about the over 12000 Gazans who have been killed (an underestimate according to US authorties) including about 6000 children. I'm sure the Israeli authorities are really upset about it

Seeing the damage to Gaza City my guess is the civilian death toll would be far higher had not Israel taken care in which targets they selected.....but you are gonna believe what you want.

very statesmanlike

But very correct as a commander in chief....

So much for those premature babies then

We felt exactly the same way during WWII......protect your soldiers to the greatest extent possible.

Well no need to worry about casualty figures then! Bombs away kill them all - yeehaa

Did you see the video on the previous thread that I posted? It was from security cameras in the attacked area and from Hamas 'fighters' cameras on Oct 7. If you haven't seen it I would be happy to re-post it here if you have the stomach to watch it. Thankfully, that's not even the worst of them; Israel won't even release those they are so brutal.

Israeli politician calls for 'Doomsday' missiles to be dropped on Hamas and Gaza

Yeah, I saw that. Fortunately he doesn't have that kind of authority. BTW, did you raise this much fuss about such when the russian politician (forget what his position was) wanted to do the same to Ukraine?......or do you believe only Gazan's don't deserve that? Try to be consistent at least.

 

[civilwarbuff]

I've seen these IDF guys on UK news programmes. They don't stand up to scrutiny and come across poorly verging on the unhinged when asked reasonable questions.

Ehh, the IDK briefings are just that: briefings run by military who have first hand knowledge and experience, not politicians. They are not a question and answer period. Can you link them to me?....Here some of the one's i watch......

You can subscribe to that channel if you would like a different perspective from what seems like to usually get......

 

[Valletta]

Latest report is that 7 of the 36 premature babies have now died - the al Shifa hospital did not have the fuel to power them.

That is a true tragedy, particularly since Israel offered them fuel to power the hospital. Hamas would not allow it.

 

[wing2000]

With regards to the fuel:

The Israeli military said in a post on X that on Sunday it “delivered 300 liters of fuel to the Shifa Hospital’s doorstep, yet the fuel remains untouched after Hamas threatened hospital staff.”

Dr. Nasser Bolbol, the head of Al-Shifa’s neonatal unit, said that the Israelis left the fuel “half a kilometer” away from the hospital, in a combat zone, and did not guarantee the safety of those trying to retrieve it. Dr. Medhat Abbas, a spokesman for the Gazan health ministry, said the hospital director had asked the Israeli military to work with the Red Cross in transporting the fuel the remaining distance to the hospital, but was rebuffed.

Israel-Hamas War: Israeli Forces Reach Gates of Gaza City Hospital

Without electricity or fuel at Al-Shifa Hospital, patients are dying and corpses are decomposing, according to medical staff and health officials.

www.nytimes.com

[The entire area around the hospital is a combat zone. I'm guessing the Israeli's took the fuel as far as they safely could....and the hopital staff / Red Cross were not in position to retrieve it safely. It was just today that IDF troops arrived at the gates of the Al-Shifa hospital complex. ]

 

[Nithavela]

Latest report is that 7 of the 36 premature babies have now died - the al Shifa hospital did not have the fuel to power them.

Should have asked Hamas, they got plenty.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza's largest hospitals are no longer operating as fighting escalates. Here are the key things to know

Operating rooms are completely out of service at Gaza's largest hospital, where staff, patients and sheltering residents are trapped inside due to heavy fighting, according to aid agencies and health officials. Follow for live updates.

www.cnn.com

The Israeli military said it killed a group of Hamas fighters “embedded” among civilians at the [Al-Quds] hospital after its troops were fired on from the hospital entrance. The PRCS [Red Crescent] disputed claims about “armed militants launching shells from inside Al-Quds Hospital.” It said there were “no armed individuals inside the hospital and no shots were fired from inside.”

The UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) said it has no fuel to fill its trucks in Gaza and will not be able to facilitate aid deliveries through the Rafah crossing on Tuesday.
--
A US official with knowledge of American intelligence says Hamas has a command node under the Al-Shifa hospital, uses fuel intended for the hospital and its fighters regularly cluster in and around Al-Shifa.

Hamas and hospital officials have denied the command center accusation.