Israel-Hamas Thread II

[JosephZ]

It's just shocking to me that even generals are falling for this stupidity. Hamas and other terrorist organizations have NEVER had difficulty getting more members.

The hand wringing is incredible. It's terrorist propaganda and it's psychological terrorism to make such a claim. As I've said this in other places. The cry that "oh we must appease the terrorists and we cannot and must not and dare not attack the terrorists and try and remove them because if we do it will just create more terrorists" is nothing more than appeasement. We are doing EXACTLY what they want. They gather members and more members and more members even when not attacked.

The way to to get rid of a terrorist attacks against you is to let it be known that it will not be tolerated. That utter destruction is coming their way to them and their supporters.

No one is suggesting that we appease the terrorists or tolerate their activities. The terrorists must be hunted down, held accountable for their actions, and the terrorist group eliminated.

 

[rjs330]

What Israel does will impact the US as well. We are, after all, the primary provider of Israel's arms (to the tune of 3 Billion dollars a year). Once more, Israel would be foolish to ignore the experience of the US over the last two decades. And btw, Biden never called for a ceasefire. He has, in the last two weeks, called for a pause to allow evacations...which Israel formally annouced it would do, yesterday.

It's America's 20 years involvement that precisely Israel ought to take not of what NOT to do. America's way allowed terrorists to escape and then return to power in Afghanistan. Despite the fact that we spent Billions of Dollars and the blood of our our troops. Israel is accomplishing in a few months what it took America years to do and still failed. We'll see what happens in the end. But Israel is obviously winning this war and doing it quickly while at the same time doing all it can to protect the citizens.

 

[rjs330]

No one is suggesting that we appease the terrorists or tolerate their activities. The terrorists must be hunted down, held accountable for their actions, and the terrorist group eliminated.

Which is exactly what Israel is doing.

 

[Valletta]

No one is suggesting that we appease the terrorists or tolerate their activities. The terrorists must be hunted down, held accountable for their actions, and the terrorist group eliminated.

"But these survivors of Oct 7 understand better than anyone the dangers and brutality of unchecked extremism. They are certain that If Hamas is not defeated, radical terrorism will spread to the UK and Europe and that Israel is fighting on behalf of all democracies; they don’t understand why so many people in Europe and the US fail to see that.
Since arriving home, I have kept in contact with many I met. They continue to feel frustrated that Israel’s actions are not better understood abroad and that this is fuelling a rise in anti-Semitism."

Angry Jews seek no vengeance against innocent Palestinians

I recently returned from a visit to Israel to see the work being done by UJIA, Britain’s leading charity supporting vulnerable communities in Israel, that I am proud to chair. After the horrific Hamas attack that decimated Israeli communities on Oct 7, UJIA’s emergency work has focused on...

www.yahoo.com

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israel lowers its estimated death toll from Hamas attacks on October 7 to 1,200​

The number includes foreign workers and other foreign nationalities, foreign ministry spokesperson Lior Haiat said in response to online questions from journalists – and is a downward revision from a previous figure of 1,400.

 

[Valletta]

Pro-Palestinian Protesters Vandalize NYPD Vehicles With Antisemitic Slogans Outside New York Times Building

Pro-Palestinian protesters defaced two New York Police Department (NYPD) vehicles on Thursday evening outside of The New ...

dcenquirer.com

 

[rjs330]

Pro-Palestinian Protesters Vandalize NYPD Vehicles With Antisemitic Slogans Outside New York Times Building

Pro-Palestinian protesters defaced two New York Police Department (NYPD) vehicles on Thursday evening outside of The New ...

dcenquirer.com

Yes and the one in DC damaged monuments and people were climbing the Whitehouse fences and covers them in red hand prints. Officers were assaulted as well.

Meanwhile in college campuses pro Hamas protestors are causing all kinds of anti-Semetic trouble And calling for the killing of Jews.

Anti-Israel protests on college campuses drive calls for increased safety

Anxiety has been growing as protests erupt across the country over the conflict in the Middle East.

www.politico.com

 

[essentialsaltes]

Israel’s hunt for Hamas puts Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital under siege​

The atmosphere inside Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital this week was one of raw, naked fear, doctors say. As Israeli airstrikes shook the earth, crowds sought refuge in its hallways. The casualties were constant, medics hollow-eyed — some expected to die there.

Only the most critical departments are still operating, Salmiya told the Al Jazeera news network Friday: intensive care, the neonatal and dialysis units, and the operating theater.

“This isn’t something you can debate. Moving patients out of these units before they are ready would be akin to murder,” a humanitarian worker who visited the hospital this week said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not permitted to speak with media.

Even if moving patients was possible, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said it’s unable to operate its ambulance fleet.

--

The Gaza Health Ministry says at least 11,078 people have been killed and more than 27,490 wounded since a deadly Hamas attack inside Israel plunged the country into war.

Israeli strikes have hit water towers and bakeries, schools and ambulances. Human rights groups have flagged a growing number of strikes as potential war crimes and pressed for an international investigation.

 

[Vanellus]

Just in case you think Israeli spokespeople should always be believed check this out from Netanyahu's Arab Media spokesman Ofir Gendelman

 

[Vanellus]

An example of IDF killing a teenage boy with special needs for throwing stones that would never hit them and then the IDF shoot at UK channel 4 reporters. Note this is the West Bank not Gaza.
Minute by Minute: Israeli killing in West Bank visual investigation

 

[rjs330]

Israel’s hunt for Hamas puts Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital under siege​

The atmosphere inside Gaza City’s al-Shifa Hospital this week was one of raw, naked fear, doctors say. As Israeli airstrikes shook the earth, crowds sought refuge in its hallways. The casualties were constant, medics hollow-eyed — some expected to die there.

Only the most critical departments are still operating, Salmiya told the Al Jazeera news network Friday: intensive care, the neonatal and dialysis units, and the operating theater.

“This isn’t something you can debate. Moving patients out of these units before they are ready would be akin to murder,” a humanitarian worker who visited the hospital this week said, speaking on the condition of anonymity because they were not permitted to speak with media.

Even if moving patients was possible, the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said it’s unable to operate its ambulance fleet.

--

The Gaza Health Ministry says at least 11,078 people have been killed and more than 27,490 wounded since a deadly Hamas attack inside Israel plunged the country into war.

Israeli strikes have hit water towers and bakeries, schools and ambulances. Human rights groups have flagged a growing number of strikes as potential war crimes and pressed for an international investigation.

Well we knew this was coming right? I mean when you build a terrorist base around a hospital it's going to happen.

Hmm... Not a mention that Hamas' base is there and Hamas is hiding there and how they are committing war crimes. Nope all on Israel.

 

[rjs330]

Just in case you think Israeli spokespeople should always be believed check this out from Netanyahu's Arab Media spokesman Ofir Gendelman

Truth is the film IS fake. They are not real victims, but are actors. Apparently it has been used to portray actual damage and injuries with a child. That's what Israel is saying.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Hmm... Not a mention that Hamas' base is there

Certainly there is a mention of this claim of the IDF, which the US considers "credible".

 

[Valletta]

Pro-Palestinian protests in New York cause Grand Central Terminal to close - Washington Examiner

Pro-Palestinian protests in New York City caused Grand Central Terminal in Manhattan to close temporarily, with video showing protesters kicking doors outside the station. The protests, which moved across Manhattan, were organized by several groups calling for a ceasefire in the conflict between...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Nithavela]

General Brown of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff also shares my concerns.

Benjamin Netanyahu has admitted that Israel’s war against Hamas in the besieged Gaza Strip is taking longer than expected as Israel faces growing pressure over the soaring Palestinian death toll and its ultimate objectives from the conflict.

Netanyahu told Fox News on Thursday that Israel’s more than month-long air and land offensive against Hamas was “taking a little longer than I had hoped”.

“I hope we could do it very fast, but we have battled conditions on the ground, the safety of our own forces, the hostages [held by Hamas],” Netanyahu said.

Netanyahu’s comments came after US officials suggested that Israel — which has vowed to eradicate Hamas — had a limited time to conduct its operations in Gaza.

General Charles Q Brown, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters this week that the aim of destroying Hamas was “a pretty large order”.

He also acknowledged that the higher the Palestinian death toll, the greater the risk that the conflict would create the conditions to produce the next generation of militants.

“That’s something we have to pay attention to,” Gen Brown said. “That’s why when we talk about time — the faster you can get to a point where you stop the hostilities, you have less strife for the civilian population that turns into someone who now wants to be the next member of Hamas.”

Client Challenge

The longer this conflict is going on, the more videos I see of people of Gaza denouncing Hamas. Maybe because Hamas is using them as human shields at gunpoint.

I say, keep up the pressure. If Hamas builds a base under a hospital, then some of the civilians in that hospital will just have to die, and the rest better place the blame on Hamas, or they are just as guilty.

 

[wing2000]

It's just shocking to me that even generals are falling for this stupidity. Hamas and other terrorist organizations have NEVER had difficulty getting more members.

The hand wringing is incredible. It's terrorist propaganda and it's psychological terrorism to make such a claim. As I've said this in other places. The cry that "oh we must appease the terrorists and we cannot and must not and dare not attack the terrorists and try and remove them because if we do it will just create more terrorists" is nothing more than appeasement. We are doing EXACTLY what they want. They gather members and more members and more members even when not attacked.

The way to to get rid of a terrorist attacks against you is to let it be known that it will not be tolerated. That utter destruction is coming their way to them and their supporters.

I see, you know better than everyone.

 

[wing2000]

Hmm... Not a mention that Hamas' base is there and Hamas is hiding there and how they are committing war crimes. Nope all on Israel.

From the linked WaPo article:

“The Hamas terrorist organization has continued operating below Gaza’s Shifa Hospital, using the thousands of patients, doctors and staff in the building to shield its underground headquarters,” the IDF said in a statement.

It included what it said was an “intelligence-based video” with illustrated 3D models of the area below ground. It also released a recording of what it said were two unidentified Palestinians speaking on the phone, in which one tells the other that Hamas is headquartered at the hospital. It was not possible to verify the authenticity of the recording.
A senior Israeli security official, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters, said Israel shared its intelligence on al-Shifa Hospital with other governments, including the United States and the European Union. “We will not let it be a sanctuary,” the official said of the hospital.

 

[Vanellus]

Truth is the film IS fake. They are not real victims, but are actors. Apparently it has been used to portray actual damage and injuries with a child. That's what Israel is saying.

Israel was claiming that the Palestinians were using this video to portray actual injuries in Gaza. But it was Israel who lifted the video not Palestinians in Gaza. Try reading the twitter thread which explains this. e.g.

"I have only seen Israeli sources share these images, and only in the context of accusing Palestinians of faking injuries and deaths. Will you please share a source for this or provide examples?"

As someone pointed out there's plenty of genuine footage of dead Palestinian children, there is no need to use fake examples.

Of course if you have a genuine example (not IDF/Israeli of course) of Hamas/Palestinians using this footage to show fake injuries you are free to provide a link to it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

The Israeli military said the east side of al-Shifa Hospital “remains open” and denied allegations of assaults on the hospital.

• Doctors Without Borders said early Saturday that attacks against al-Shifa Hospital had “dramatically intensified” overnight and that it had lost contact with its staff inside. “We urgently reiterate our calls to stop the attacks against hospitals,” it said.

Israeli tanks and other military vehicles have surrounded al-Quds Hospital in Gaza, according to the Palestine Red Crescent Society, and their attacks are “shaking” the medical center.
“There is for sure direct attacks, direct live ammunition at the hospital, which has resulted in a number of casualties.”

Hospitals in northern Gaza have turned into “a graveyard,” Mohammed Abu Mughaisib, deputy medical coordinator for Doctors Without Borders (MSF) in Gaza, told The Washington Post Saturday.

“Some of the patients started to die because of the lack of electricity for the ventilators. There aren’t enough doctors to treat everyone,” he said.

Abu Mughaisib said medical workers at al-Nasr pediatric hospital had to leave babies in incubators behind as they evacuate southward.

 

[Vanellus]

Jewish casualties were overestimated and Palestinian casualties are likely to be underestimated

Israel-Hamas War: Israel Lowers Oct. 7 Death Toll Estimate to 1,200

Israel-Hamas War: Israel Lowers Oct. 7 Death Toll Estimate to 1,200​

Death toll in Gaza likely ‘higher than is being reported’: US official

Death toll in Gaza likely ‘higher than is being reported’: US official​

Now whether it was 1400 or 1200 does not lessen the terrible nature of the Hamas atrocity on October 7. What I'm concerned about is the media coverage of this and how it may affect the views of people on this forum. I can't remember a single instance in UK main stream media that questioned the accuracy of the 1400 figure, or that such a question was put to an Israeli spokesperson. The figure given out by the Israeli authorities was accepted without question.

Yet Palestinian spokespeople are often asked about the accuracy of the Gaza casualty figures and it is often stated that the Gaza health ministry is "controlled by Hamas" without explaining what that means - does it mean that someone from Hamas is standing over them with a gun? Yet their figures are known to be accurate in previous outbreaks of violence


Can we trust casualty figures from the Hamas-run Gaza health ministry?

Omar Shakir, the Israel and Palestine director at Human Rights Watch, said he saw no evidence that the numbers were being manipulated.

“We have been monitoring human rights abuses in the Gaza Strip for three decades, including several rounds of hostilities. We’ve generally found the data that comes out of the ministry of health to be reliable,” he said.

“When we have done our own independent investigations around particular strikes, and we’ve compared those figures against those from the health ministry, there haven’t been major deviations.

“Their numbers generally are consistent with what we’re seeing on the ground in recent days. There have been hundreds of airstrikes per day in one of the most densely populated areas of the world.

“We’ve looked at satellite imagery. We’ve seen the number of buildings, and the numbers that are coming out are in line with what we would expect with what we’re seeing on the ground. So you put all those things together and we’re quite confident in the overall casualty numbers.”

The reason for this double standard about the accuracy of casualty figures is a clear case of othering. Palestinians are assumed to be lying because they are Palestinians and Israelis are assumed to be telling the truth because they are Israelis. I do not think the Bible supports this view.

P.S. Have you ever seen a headline like "can we trust casualty figures issued by the Israeli authorities?"