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Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

FireDragon76

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Law abiding citizens buy their guns through methods that involve paperwork and background checks. If modern sporting weapons are banned, it's the law abiding that wouldn't be able to buy them. The criminals get guns through other methods (Think: Chicago), and don't have to go through the regulatory hoops that the law-abiding go through, and therefore are able to obtain guns even if they're banned.

You seem to be arguing that people are either "criminals" or "law abiding", regardless of circumstances, as if people exist merely as abstractions that can be described as"law abiding" and "criminal", regardless of circumstances.. I'm arguing that's a philosophically questionable notion, since it doesn't take into account the fact that what is legal or law abiding depends on the context.
 
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Aldebaran

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You seem to be arguing that people are either "criminals" or "law abiding", regardless of circumstances, as if people exist merely as abstractions that can be described as"law abiding" and "criminal", regardless of circumstances.. I'm arguing that's a philosophically questionable notion, since it doesn't take into account the fact that what is legal or law abiding depends on the context.
Breaking into homes and stealing guns. Is that law abiding or criminal?
 
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FireDragon76

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Breaking into homes and stealing guns. Is that law abiding or criminal?

Much of the gun violence in the US, especially mass shootings, isn't committed by people that break into homes and steal, or have any kind of criminal record. The shooter in the recent shooting in Maine was an otherwise law-abiding person, he worked for the military as a firearms instructor, in fact.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Much of the gun violence in the US, especially mass shootings, isn't committed by people that break into homes and steal, or have any kind of criminal record. The shooter in the recent shooting in Maine was an otherwise law-abiding person, he worked for the military as a firearms instructor, in fact.
Maybe so, but mass shootings true mass shootings like the one last week ( defining that as seemingly not connected to any other violent crime such as gang violent or or people killing whole families ( it only takes four to be considered a mass shooting) True mass shootings like this one are rare when compared to total gun deaths ( better than half of which are a person taking their own lives and no one else with them by the way. The mass shootings are the ones that tend to make the national and sometimes international news yes and shooting committed with "assault weapons" whatever on Earth those are, but that make up a VERY small percentage of total gun deaths.

For example, let us suppose we had 1,100 that would die we had two choices

A We could save 1,000 people over the course of say a year

or B
we could save 100 of those people in the course of a single day

Assume for the purpose of this that saving all 1,100 is not an option

Which would make more sense to lose the 1,000 or lose the 100

In this context the strict regulation /banning of "assault weapons and other large mag weapons is the 100(because yes they take the most lives at one time and are what makes the news outside a local area ( giving the appearance that more lives are being saved.

The 1,000 on the other hand are hand guns and/or other long guns like hurting rifles things like that (but probably 995 would be nothing but handguns.)

Now hand guns are already some of the most highly regulated guns ( outside of guns that are nearly completely illegal like machine guns for civilians.) These guns already generally require the highest minimum age to purchase ( 21) and most states carry ( particularly concealed most states that too is 21, yet those are the guns people usually least likely support adding restrictions and certainly are less likely to want to see them banned.


Given that example of the 100 vs the 1,000 which would make more sense to try and save? Yet the types of restrictions the most people are the most gun ho about (no pun intended) are the ones that while they are not currently as regulated would save the 100 lives ( because those are the ones people hear about when they happen outside of their area and those are the ones that take the most lives at one time, but would we whether it be about that or total body count?
 
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Divide

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I'm so sick of people psychoanalyzing people. Who cares. Actions have consequences. Learn how to aim, learn how to shoot, learn how to defend yourself, learn that these things are things that need to be learned and get on with your day.

Pretending to be Dr Phil all day is pointless! Grown ups are living in reality and everyone can thank us later.

That's right. People can say anything they want and it doesn't matter. It doesnt matter if they got offended. So what. What is important is what are they doing? What are their actions? If somebody is brandishing a bad attitude and a weapon then he's about to get offended, lol! Is any other response one they would respect. They expect the victim to cooperate and when he hits major resistance now they wanna cry no fair?! Lol!!
 
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Divide

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Much of the gun violence in the US, especially mass shootings, isn't committed by people that break into homes and steal, or have any kind of criminal record. The shooter in the recent shooting in Maine was an otherwise law-abiding person, he worked for the military as a firearms instructor, in fact.

You must not live in the US then. Because burglars entering homes many many of them routinely hurt and kill (usually unarmed) homeowners who confront them. WHat you said is patently false in every state. So the guy who was a firearms instructor went crazy and killed some people, and you want to make that significant towards all the other law abiding people who do not go around shooting up the town? That's absurd.

I'm a long time gun guy. I grew up with them. Are you implying that I am dangerous because a different gun guy went crazy? (Can you hear yourself?!).

WHat trade are you in? Let me research that and if anybody in your trade ever shot somebody then you're out of the club boi. (That would be totally ridiculous) Just like your post.

But thank you for making my point! You have made a great point about how...anyone anywhere at any time is likely to perhaps "go off" and start trying to hurt you or others. Wow! That makes me think, Never go unarmed anywhere. Maybe I'll carry 2 reloads instead of one, because as you have pointed out, we can't trust anyone else with our own life. Thank you Sir!
 
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Divide

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Maybe so, but mass shootings true mass shootings like the one last week ( defining that as seemingly not connected to any other violent crime such as gang violent or or people killing whole families ( it only takes four to be considered a mass shooting) True mass shootings like this one are rare when compared to total gun deaths ( better than half of which are a person taking their own lives and no one else with them by the way. The mass shootings are the ones that tend to make the national and sometimes international news yes and shooting committed with "assault weapons" whatever on Earth those are, but that make up a VERY small percentage of total gun deaths.

For example, let us suppose we had 1,100 that would die we had two choices

A We could save 1,000 people over the course of say a year

or B
we could save 100 of those people in the course of a single day

Assume for the purpose of this that saving all 1,100 is not an option

Which would make more sense to lose the 1,000 or lose the 100

In this context the strict regulation /banning of "assault weapons and other large mag weapons is the 100(because yes they take the most lives at one time and are what makes the news outside a local area ( giving the appearance that more lives are being saved.

The 1,000 on the other hand are hand guns and/or other long guns like hurting rifles things like that (but probably 995 would be nothing but handguns.)

Now hand guns are already some of the most highly regulated guns ( outside of guns that are nearly completely illegal like machine guns for civilians.) These guns already generally require the highest minimum age to purchase ( 21) and most states carry ( particularly concealed most states that too is 21, yet those are the guns people usually least likely support adding restrictions and certainly are less likely to want to see them banned.


Given that example of the 100 vs the 1,000 which would make more sense to try and save? Yet the types of restrictions the most people are the most gun ho about (no pun intended) are the ones that while they are not currently as regulated would save the 100 lives ( because those are the ones people hear about when they happen outside of their area and those are the ones that take the most lives at one time, but would we whether it be about that or total body count?

What happens when the 100 say, whatever we will protect ourselves? Because when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
 
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dogs4thewin

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What happens when the 100 say, whatever we will protect ourselves? Because when guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.
This was taking that aspect out of it. It was assuming that the people who currently respect the laws would still do so. This was assuming that the 1,100 people did nothing wrong that would make their deaths justified. AKA there would be no one killed due to self defense.
 
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dogs4thewin

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How many more guns do we need in the public hands to keep people safe?
It does not matter how many guns "good people" have because they can have 100 guns nothing will happen until they pull the trigger.
 
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Akita Suggagaki

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It does not matter how many guns "good people" have because they can have 100 guns nothing will happen until they pull the trigger.
How many more people pulling triggers are do we need to keep people safe?
 
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Divide

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This was taking that aspect out of it. It was assuming that the people who currently respect the laws would still do so. This was assuming that the 1,100 people did nothing wrong that would make their deaths justified. AKA there would be no one killed due to self defense.

I know! With the shape of the world today who wouldnt at that point become an outlaw?
I consider myself to be law abiding and I want to be law abiding. But they can't take my gun away from me for several legal reasons and moral reasons. We are perhaps at the door of WWIII or at least terrorist attacks in the US. Will the military save us after they made my guns illegal and I turned them in like a good citizen would?

No they wont. They only have a duty to protect the general public and not the individual citizen. This is law for Police also. So if we cant look to them for protection, us in the neighbrohood should band together and fight to survive for ourselves.

If the Police do not have a duty to protect me then they wont see me at the gun turn in. Survival first and being a law abiding citizen second.
 
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Divide

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How many more people pulling triggers are do we need to keep people safe?

It's too late for gun control. There are already so many guns out there that if they tok my gun, I could have another within 24 hours. The criminals have free access also to used guns. So it's not like they even could take them all away. It would be a logisticical nightmare for them and pretty soon we would be fighting them because they would take all guns, even previously law abiding folks would be called a criminal and charged for the possession of the gun that they stole.

Does knowing that there are so many guns on the street make you feel less safe? Not me! It makes me feel good because I know that most gun people are good people that I do not have to fear.
 
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dogs4thewin

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How many more people pulling triggers are do we need to keep people safe?
Problem is people that are pulling the triggers are "bad" people; although mass shootings are rare when you look at total gun deaths( at least those like the one in ME that are seemingly random. There HAVE been shootings like that stopped by "good guys though depends on where you are and who is there.
 
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dogs4thewin

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It's too late for gun control. There are already so many guns out there that if they tok my gun, I could have another within 24 hours. The criminals have free access also to used guns. So it's not like they even could take them all away. It would be a logisticical nightmare for them and pretty soon we would be fighting them because they would take all guns, even previously law abiding folks would be called a criminal and charged for the possession of the gun that they stole.

Does knowing that there are so many guns on the street make you feel less safe? Not me! It makes me feel good because I know that most gun people are good people that I do not have to fear.
A big question is whose side will the military be on? I can promise you that many serve members and veterans would serve with civilians.
 
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Aldebaran

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Much of the gun violence in the US, especially mass shootings, isn't committed by people that break into homes and steal, or have any kind of criminal record. The shooter in the recent shooting in Maine was an otherwise law-abiding person, he worked for the military as a firearms instructor, in fact.
Then what should have prevented him from having guns as a firearm instructor and a former military person?
 
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Aldebaran

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How many more people pulling triggers are do we need to keep people safe?
If the people who commit violent crimes against the innocent would stop themselves from criminal behavior, nobody would have to pull triggers.
 
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RDKirk

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Much of the gun violence in the US, especially mass shootings, isn't committed by people that break into homes and steal, or have any kind of criminal record. The shooter in the recent shooting in Maine was an otherwise law-abiding person, he worked for the military as a firearms instructor, in fact.
The great majority of it is either suicide or activity by known criminals, and most mass shootings are by criminals engaged in illegal activities.
 
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RDKirk

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Then what should have prevented him from having guns as a firearm instructor and a former military person?
It looks like he had a mental medical history that might have stopped him, but there hasn't been much information about him released yet.
 
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