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Is believing/faith a work ?

Clare73

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When Christ saves a person then they will believe.
Actually, it is when they are born again, they will then believe and be saved.
They can do nothing until they are reborn from spiritual death into spiritual life, where the Holy Spirit enables them to believe to salvation.
 
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Brightfame52

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Actually, it is when they are born again, they will then believe and be saved.
They can do nothing until they are reborn from spiritual death into spiritual life, where the Holy Spirit enables them to believe to salvation.
Christ death for them ensures their new birth, that is part of His saving work so one will believe.
 
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Doug Brents

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When Christ saves a person then they will believe.
Again, you have it backwards:
Rom 10:9-10 - "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Belief results in receiving righteousness, not the other way around.
Eph 1:13 - "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,"
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit (saved) AFTER we hear the Gospel and believe it, not before.
 
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Brightfame52

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Again, you have it backwards:
Rom 10:9-10 - "if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Belief results in receiving righteousness, not the other way around.
Eph 1:13 - "In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of the promise,"
We are sealed with the Holy Spirit (saved) AFTER we hear the Gospel and believe it, not before.
No it's not backwards, until one is saved, the gospel is hidden from them and they reside in unbelief.
 
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Doug Brents

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No it's not backwards, until one is saved, the gospel is hidden from them and they reside in unbelief.
Not according to Scripture. Go read in your own Bible the Scriptures referenced. Read what God said, then adapt your thinking to agree with what HE said.
 
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Brightfame52

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Not according to Scripture. Go read in your own Bible the Scriptures referenced. Read what God said, then adapt your thinking to agree with what HE said.
The gospel is hidden to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
 
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Doug Brents

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The gospel is hidden to them that are lost and they believe not 2 Cor 4:3-4
"Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in trickery nor distorting the word of God, but by the open proclamation of the truth commending ourselves to every person’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

If the Gospel is veiled, meaning that it is not always veiled, then it is veiled by Satan to some of those who are perishing. That does not mean that it will always remain veiled to them, nor that they will always remain perishing. The fact that the Holy Spirit can cut through that veil, and reveal the Gospel to someone, does not mean that that person was saved when the Gospel was illuminated. No, they are saved when they believe and act upon the Gospel (Heb 5:9 (which is also Scripture)).
 
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Brightfame52

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"Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in trickery nor distorting the word of God, but by the open proclamation of the truth commending ourselves to every person’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they will not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God."

If the Gospel is veiled, meaning that it is not always veiled, then it is veiled by Satan to some of those who are perishing. That does not mean that it will always remain veiled to them, nor that they will always remain perishing. The fact that the Holy Spirit can cut through that veil, and reveal the Gospel to someone, does not mean that that person was saved when the Gospel was illuminated. No, they are saved when they believe and act upon the Gospel (Heb 5:9 (which is also Scripture)).
Until one is saved they can't believe the gospel due to the fact it is hidden to the lost.
 
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Doug Brents

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Until one is saved they can't believe the gospel due to the fact it is hidden to the lost.
Until you are ready to accept ALL of Scripture as your authority, and not just the pieces of verses that you can twist to say what you want to believe, we are done here.
 
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Clare73

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Christ death for them ensures their new birth, that is part of His saving work so one will believe.
Not everyone is born again (Jn 3:3-5),
where the new birth is by sovereign choice of the Holy Spirit, who is as unaccountable as the wind (Jn 3:6-8), and
where without the new birth, no one can even see the kingdom of God (Jn 3:3-5), must less believe in it.

And that new birth must come first before they believe and are saved.
 
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Aldebaran

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Thread cleaned mod hat.jpg


PLEASE REFRAIN FROM CLAIMING THAT ANYONE IS NOT A CHRISTIAN OR SAVED
 
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Buzzard3

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I think if we are truly born again, circumcised in heart, we don't desire to sin. Our new nature has a strong aversion towards sin. With that said, even a born again Christian can fall into temptation, quench the Holy Spirit and go back to a sinful lifestyle. The question then remains if such a person is still saved.
That's for the Lord to decide on Judgement Day ... but we know from Scripture that sin can prevent a believer that from inheriting the kingdom of God ... Gal 5:19-21, 1Cor 6:9-11.
1John 2:3-6 says a believer who disobeys God’s commandments doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar" and "the truth is not in him".
 
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Buzzard3

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@Buzzard3



It is, especially Christs Obedience, for it alone make's men righteous or saved Rom 5:19

For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So how important is Jesus obedience to God ?
"Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience" (Col 3:5-6).

What does this passage mean?
 
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Buzzard3

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Now who's coming up with two meanings for one word?
Paul and James.
Did someone say obeying God is not rather important?
The doctrine of salvation through faith alone implies obeying God's commandments is not important.
What do you mean by, "the road to salvation". Are you saying that a believer is not already saved?
The road to salvation is living a life of faith and obedience (aka holiness) that hopefully results in being declared worthy of salvation by Christ on Judgement Day.

"Strive for ... the holiness without which no one will see the Lord" (Heb 12:14)
Or are you saying that a believer will exhibit command-keeping?
A believer has the free will to obey or disobey God's commandments.
No. We are identified by obedience, not saved by obedience. Faith + Works is not a formula for salvation.
"a man is justified [saved] by works [obedience] and not by faith alone ... faith without works [obedience] is dead" (James 2:24-26).

"the saints ... those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12)
Faith necessarily produces results
Not necessarily. A believer can choose to obey or disobey God. Faith doesn't turn a believer into a robot that can't sin.
 
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Buzzard3

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We are sealed with the Holy Spirit (saved) AFTER we hear the Gospel and believe it, not before.
Being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit doesn't refer to a fait accompli that means you're saved - it refers to receiving a spiritual mark at baptism. Being baptised doesn't guarantee that Christ will grant you eternal life.
 
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Buzzard3

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Until you are ready to accept ALL of Scripture as your authority, and not just the pieces of verses that you can twist to say what you want to believe, we are done here.
He's already indicated that he doesn't accept all Scripture. He's only interested in the parts he thinks supports his rather fascinating doctrine.
 
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zoidar

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That's for the Lord to decide on Judgement Day ... but we know from Scripture that sin can prevent a believer that from inheriting the kingdom of God ... Gal 5:19-21, 1Cor 6:9-11.
1John 2:3-6 says a believer who disobeys God’s commandments doesn't "know" Christ, is a "liar" and "the truth is not in him".
To not only have faith, but also be faithful is indeed important.
 
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Doug Brents

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Being "sealed" by the Holy Spirit doesn't refer to a fait accompli that means you're saved - it refers to receiving a spiritual mark at baptism. Being baptised doesn't guarantee that Christ will grant you eternal life.
When one has believed, repented, and confessed Jesus as Lord, then when they are baptized into Christ the Holy Spirit enters them and removes their sins, the old man dies, and the new man is born in the likeness of Christ's righteousness; it is a fait accompli, and they are saved. But you are correct, if one is baptized just to be like others who are being baptized, or if one does not really believe in Jesus, or if they have not confessed Jesus as their Lord, then being baptized just gets them wet.
 
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Buzzard3

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When one has believed, repented, and confessed Jesus as Lord, then when they are baptized into Christ the Holy Spirit enters them and removes their sins, the old man dies, and the new man is born in the likeness of Christ's righteousness; it is a fait accompli, and they are saved.
No one is saved until Christ declares them saved on Judgement Day.
 
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