Is believing/faith a work ?

[DingDing]

Go to the op !

Can you give me two or 3 points? Keep it simple. Remember the "KISS" principle. The best discussions start simple. If you can't do this, then you have failed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Can you give me two or 3 points? Keep it simple. Remember the "KISS" principle. The best discussions start simple. If you can't do this, then you have failed.

I was discussing this for a while now, go to the OP, or you have failed

 

[DingDing]

I was discussing this for a while now, go to the OP, or you have failed

If you can't (or won't) give a simple reply, then you have failed to communicate. I gave my answer to your opening post (actually I asked you to define terms), in your OP. Not my monkey, not my circus. How do you define "believing", "faith", and "work"? Until you define them as you understand them, I have no clue where you are coming from.

 

[Brightfame52]

If you can't (or won't) give a simple reply, then you have failed to communicate. I gave my answer to your opening post (actually I asked you to define terms), in your OP. Not my monkey, not my circus. How do you define "believing", "faith", and "work"? Until you define them as you understand them, I have no clue where you are coming from.

Read what I have already posted, start with the OP .

 

[Buzzard3]

Salvation is not by works,

True; rather, salvation is by faith and works:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? ...
a man is justified by works and not by faith alone ... faith without works is dead" (James 2:14, 24-26).

 

[Brightfame52]

True; rather, salvation is by faith and works:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? ...
a man is justified by works and not by faith alone ... faith without works is dead" (James 2:14, 24-26).

Sure by the Faith and Works of Jesus Christ.

 

[Halbhh]

Sure by the Faith and Works of Jesus Christ.

James in the famous James 1:22 is only repeating the message Christ Himself directly taught:

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.​

And Christ our Lord said the same with a wonderful analogy that makes it so clear:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

-- Jesus, the Christ, our Lord and Savior, in the Sermon on the Mount, Mt. 7 (the Sermon on the Mount is Matthew chapters 5 through 7)

So, if we have faith, we will want and desire to Hear all He said to us, and follow His words, doing them.
Wonderfully, in John 15:1-17 He tells us how we can do these things that would be so hard to do, such as "love your enemies" -- which we could not do on our own often or well....

 

[Brightfame52]

James in the famous James 1:22 is only repeating the message Christ Himself directly taught:

22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.​

And Christ our Lord said the same with a wonderful analogy that makes it so clear:

21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

24 “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.”

-- Jesus, the Christ, our Lord and Savior, in the Sermon on the Mount, Mt. 7 (the Sermon on the Mount is Matthew chapters 5 through 7)

So, if we have faith, we will want and desire to Hear all He said to us, and follow His words, doing them.
Wonderfully, in John 15:1-17 He tells us how we can do these things that would be so hard to do, such as "love your enemies" -- which we could not do on our own often or well....

Jesus is the Saviour. He saved His People from their sins by His Work.

 

[GenemZ]

Before Satan invented lying?

All communication from God to the angels was simply accepted by faith.
For until lies were introduced? Angels never questioned God.

One might want to say... "We can know we are saved because we have faith!"

For, faith is evidence of having been restored to a normal relationship with God.

 

[Halbhh]

Jesus is the Saviour. He saved His People from their sins by His Work.

Yes!

And therefore, we should listen to His words...we are commanded so directly by God Himself:

5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.”

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes!

And therefore, we should listen to His words...we are commanded so directly by God Himself:

5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.”

Not to be saved, He did all the saving, by Himself.

 

[Buzzard3]

Sure by the Faith and Works of Jesus Christ

What do you think James 2:24 means by "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"?

Salvation through faith alone doesn't add up - it logically leads to the conclusion that a believer can lead a life filled with the worst sins and evil imaginable and he will still be granted eternal life, which is absurd.

And since "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26), salvation through faith alone is just another way of saying, salvation through dead faith, which is also absurd.

 

[zoidar]

What do you think James 2:24 means by "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"?

Salvation through faith alone doesn't add up - it logically leads to the conclusion that a believer can lead a life filled with the worst sins and evil imaginable and he will still be granted eternal life, which is absurd.

And since "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26), salvation through faith alone is just another way of saying, salvation through dead faith, which is also absurd.

I think if we are truly born again, circumcised in heart, we don't desire to sin. Our new nature has a strong aversion towards sin. With that said, even a born again Christian can fall into temptation, quench the Holy Spirit and go back to a sinful lifestyle. The question then remains if such a person is still saved.

 

[Brightfame52]

What do you think James 2:24 means by "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone"?

Salvation through faith alone doesn't add up - it logically leads to the conclusion that a believer can lead a life filled with the worst sins and evil imaginable and he will still be granted eternal life, which is absurd.

And since "faith without works is dead" (James 2:26), salvation through faith alone is just another way of saying, salvation through dead faith, which is also absurd.

It doesnt matter what James 2:24 means, Jesus is the Saviour, He saves by His Work, you deny that ?

 

[prodromos]

It doesnt matter what James 2:24 means,

Of course it does.

Jesus is the Saviour, He saves by His Work, you deny that ?

We still need to respond to His saving work.

 

[Clare73]

True; rather, salvation is by faith and works:

"What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him? ...
a man is justified by works and not by faith alone ... faith without works is dead" (James 2:14, 24-26).

James uses the word "justify" to mean "prove to be true." (Jas 2:24)
As in, "Her fear was justified when he killed her dog."
Likewise, his faith which alone saved him proved to be true faith by his works.

Paul uses the word "justify" to mean "declared not guilty," in right standing with God's Court -- Greek definition of "justification" (dikaiosis).
As in, "Justification is by faith, apart from works (of observing the law). (Ro 3:28)
Likewise, the believer is justified (declared "not guilty") by faith alone.

True faith must have works, but it is not the works of that faith which save, it is the faith apart from its works which saves.

 

[Brightfame52]

Of course it does.

We still need to respond to His saving work

 

[Brightfame52]

Not until you saved first

Of course it does.

We still need to respond to His saving work.

Not until we are saved by Christ can we respond in a conversion experience.

 

[Clare73]

Not until you saved first

Not until we are saved by Christ can we respond in a conversion experience.

Faith is the conversion which saves.

 

[Mark Quayle]

@prodromos quoted @BrightFame as saying:

Brightfame52 said:
It doesnt matter what James 2:24 means,

Of course it does.

@prodromos you have misquoted what @Brightfame52 said. Cutting it short is misrepresenting it, when the whole statement was one meaning. "It doesn't matter what x says" is a figure of speech, and part of the larger statement. He doesn't mean that what James says is unimportant.

You might want to check the rules on that.

Brightfame52 said:
It doesnt matter what James 2:24 means, Jesus is the Saviour, He saves by His Work, you deny that ?