Hamas-Israel News Thread

[truthpls]

Hamas wants the children dead, Israel want them alive. It's that plain:

Hamas leader Isamil Haniyeh called for Palestinian civilians to die in Israel’s strikes against Hamas terrorists inside of Gaza.
The remarks come as Hamas commits war crimes by using civilians as human shields and lies about events that have unfolded during the three-week war, including its false claims that Israel bombed a hospital.

No one showed the hospital was bombed by any party. So I avoid that one. However a hospital was told to evacuate today by Israel.

 

[Valletta]

No one showed the hospital was bombed by any party. So I avoid that one. However a hospital was told to evacuate today by Israel.

Right, it was not bombed, it was a hit by a Hamas rocket. Yes, hundreds of terrorists fled to Shifa Hospital and other hospitals, they have command centers and fuel in the hospitals. A large portion of the Shifa hospital building is being used by the terrorists, they have to hide, they cannot face Israeli soldiers one on one. Any patients left in Shifa must be moved, the logical step for Israel is to give warning and then bomb each terrorist command center building one at a time.

 

[truthpls]

Right, it was not bombed, it was a hit by a Hamas rocket.

No one knows for sure.

Yes, hundreds of terrorists fled to Shifa Hospital and other hospitals, they have command centers and fuel in the hospitals.

So the sick are terrorists now? Your source for saying there are command centers in hospitals?

A large portion of the Shifa hospital building is being used by the terrorists, they have to hide, they cannot face Israeli soldiers one on one.

Says who? Proof?

Any patients left in Shifa must be moved, the logical step for Israel is to give warning and then bomb each terrorist command center building one at a time.

I would say that is terrorism, not even respecting hospitals

 

[Valletta]

No one knows for sure.

So the sick are terrorists now? Your source for saying there are command centers in hospitals?

Says who? Proof?

I would say that is terrorism, not even respecting hospitals

One needs to give respect to people, the over one thousand Israelis and their brave families, not give respect to a building. Once it is taken over by cowardly terrorists it is no longer a hospital. Hamas continued to violate all international law, holding civilian hostages for one. If there are any Hamas alive after this war and they held patients in the hospital or killed them just to make sure they were dead when the press arrived, they will be put on trial.

 

[truthpls]

One needs to give respect to people, the over one thousand Israelis and their brave families, not give respect to a building.

One needs to respect the 10,000 Israel killed or whatever the number this hour is. The way to respect the dead is not to kill apartments full of civilians.

Once it is taken over by cowardly terrorists it is no longer a hospital.

Proof? Do doctors say that?

Hamas continued to violate all international law, holding civilian hostages for one.

That should be dealt with. So either you can get the terrorists or not. The answer is not to displace millions and bomb them

If there are any Hamas alive after this war and they held patients in the hospital or killed them just to make sure they were dead when the press arrived, they will be put on trial.

Prophesy hour? There are many possible outcomes in a volatile situation

 

[Ana the Ist]

The Arabs of Palestine Said No to the Jewish Right of Return

What confusion would ensue all the world over if this principle on which the Jews base their "legitimate" claim were carried out in other parts of the world! What migrations of nations must follow! The Spaniards in Spain would have to make room for the Arabs and Moors who conquered and ruled their country for over 700 years…

— Palestine Arab Delegation, Observations on the High Commissioner's Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine during the period 1st July 1920 – 30th June 1921

Wow...that's not just a bad argument...it's self defeating. 1. Arabs aren't banned from Spain, or Europe even. They have been allowed to immigrate there legally for a long time now, and they've been illegally immigrating there in such numbers for years now that it's a significant problem for many European nations...and the political left of those nations believe even illegal immigrants should be allowed to stay. Meanwhile, Arab nations don't allow Palestinians to immigrate and become citizens.

2. Arabs aren't originally from Spain. They conquered it centuries ago...then got chased out by a guy called El Cid. Great guy....look him up.

The Palestinian Arabs Said No to Equating National Consciousness with Land Rights

There is not a single Arab who has not been hurt by the entry of Jews into Palestine: there is not a single Arab who does not see himself as part of the Arab race… In his eyes, Palestine is an independent unit.

— Moshe Shertok, Speech MAPAI Central Committee, June 9th 1936

I don't if Moshe gets to speak for all Arabs....but if they largely agree, telling me that Arabs are all race essentialists doesn't make me sympathetic to their cause.

They Said No to the Notion That Palestine Was Desolate and Empty

In our lovely country there exists an entire people who have held it for centuries and to whom it would never occur to leave…The time has come to dispel the misconception among Zionists that land in Palestine lies uncultivated for lack of working hands or the laziness of the local residents. There are no deserted fields.
— Yitzhak Epstein, "The Hidden Question," 1907

This is just false. Until the formation of the Israeli state...that region was always ruled by people who originated from elsewhere. Whether we're talking about the British, Ottomans, Mongols, or Romans...one has to go back pretty far to find an independent nation.

They Said No to the Exchange of Political for Economic Rights

You say my house has been enriched by the strangers who have entered it. But it is my house, and I did not invite the strangers in, or ask them to enrich it, and I do not care how poor or bare it is if only I am master in it.

—1937 Royal Commission Report, paraphrasing the remarks of an Arab witness

Fun fact- The Six Day War occurred when Egypt tried to economically strangle a young Israeli nation.

The Arabs Said No to the Jewish Settlement Enterprise

Land is the most necessary thing for our establishing roots in Palestine. Since there are hardly any more arable unsettled lands in Palestine, we are bound in each case of the purchase of land and its settlements to remove the peasants who cultivated the land so far, both owners of the land and tenants.
—Arthur Ruppin, 1930

Land is important anywhere a nation hopes to exist. It doesn't really matter what the Arabs have said "no" to....it was land under British sovereign rule.

They Said No to the Reneging on Promises, and They Said No to the Incongruity Enshrined in the 1917 Balfour Declaration

There is not one nation in the world that would accept voluntarily and of its own desire that its position should be changed in a manner which will have an effect on its rights and prejudice its interests … We as a nation are human beings with our own culture and civilization and we feel as any other nation would feel. It will have to be imposed on us by force.

— Awni Abd al-Hadi, Testimony to Royal Peel Commission, 1937

How prophetic. It was imposed upon them by force. This was their choice though...and they chose poorly.

Finally, the Palestinian Arabs Said No to the "Generous Offers" of Partition, Made by the Royal Palestine (Peel) Commission in 1937 and the UN in 1947.

This opposition [to partition] is based upon the unwavering conviction of unshakeable rights and a conviction of the injustice of forcing a long-settled population to accept immigrants without its consent being asked and against its known and expressed will; the injustice of turning a majority into a minority in its own country; the injustice of withholding self-government until the Zionists are in the majority and able to profit by it.

— Albert Hourani, Statement to the Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry, 1946

The Original “No”: Why the Arabs Rejected Zionism, and Why It Matters - Middle East Policy Council

Natasha Gill Natasha Gill is the founder and director of TRACK4, which runs negotiation simulations for mediators, diplomats, journalists, policy makers, students and people directly involved in conflict. A viable peace process does not require either party to embrace or even recognize the...

mepc.org

The "injustice of turning a majority into a minority" by being forced to accept immigrants. If he had written "illegal immigrants" this would read like a line from the "Great Replacement Theory" which the left thinks is so racist and bigoted.

Hard to take the left seriously on this issue when it's arguments are the same ones they reject from "white supremacists".

 

[essentialsaltes]

More children killed in Gaza than in global conflicts annually over past 4 years, Save the Children says​

The number of children reported killed in Gaza during Israel’s military campaign over the past three weeks has surpassed the annual number of children killed in armed conflict globally in each of the past four years, according to Save the Children.
More than 3,000 children have been reported killed in Gaza since October 7 by the enclave's Hamas-controlled health authorities.

UNICEF chief: Lack of clean water in Gaza is on the verge of "becoming a catastrophe"​

“Only one desalination plant is operating at just 5% capacity, while all six of Gaza’s water-waste treatment plants are now non-operational due to the lack of fuel or power.”

She described the current situation as being on the “verge of becoming a catastrophe,” stressing that more civilians will likely die from dehydration and waterborne illnesses unless clean water supply is restored.

“We are doing our best to reach every child in need, but the delivery of humanitarian aid – especially Gaza – is now extremely challenging. This is due to both the current siege conditionsimposed on Gaza, and the highly dangerous circumstances under which our staff are operating,” Russell continued.

 

[Ana the Ist]

on a supposed terrorist-hunt

"Supposed"???

What bizarre standard do you hold for terrorism? Hamas literally murdered over 1500 innocent civilians including women, children, and babies and kidnapped hostages.

The same people downplaying this are the people who called January 6th a "violent insurrection" carried out by "domestic terrorists".

There's nothing supposed about this....Hamas are terrorists and yes, it's a shame they cowardly hide behind the people who voted for them, but those people already knew that Hamas used human shields back when they voted Hamas into power in 2006.

If they're upset about being used as human shields, they need only to look in a mirror to find someone to blame.

 

[Vanellus]

I can't play the my opinion is better than your opinion game anymore. Whatever the reason, the Palestinians and the Nazi's murdered Jews, including their children. That's the end of the story.

For that, the penalty is death.

Some Jews have murdered Palestinians and others e.g. King David Hotel

 

[rjs330]

The less than 15% is being generous, it's probably closer to 10%. 70% of Palestinians in Gaza today are under the age of 30. Anyone under the age of 35 were either not born yet or were too young to vote when the 2006 election was held. When Hamas did win in 2006, it won with just 44% of the vote.

It's those 30 year olda that have been raiaed to hate and want to kill Jews in the anti-Semetic education system. The media has also educated them.

70% under 30? Where did all those Palestinians go that voted for Hamas? They all die? Like I said that was only 20 years ago. The 30 year olds at the time would only be 50 now. The 40 year olds 60. And these kids that were 10 or so at the time have been raised in a system that tells them everyday to hate and want to kill Jews. You actually think they are less inclined to want to?

At least 53% of Palestinians support Hamas. So it sounds like they would just get voted in again.

 

[rjs330]

The Arabs of Palestine Said No to the Jewish Right of Return

What confusion would ensue all the world over if this principle on which the Jews base their "legitimate" claim were carried out in other parts of the world! What migrations of nations must follow! The Spaniards in Spain would have to make room for the Arabs and Moors who conquered and ruled their country for over 700 years…

— Palestine Arab Delegation, Observations on the High Commissioner's Interim Report on the Civil Administration of Palestine during the period 1st July 1920 – 30th June 1921

The Palestinian Arabs Said No to Equating National Consciousness with Land Rights

There is not a single Arab who has not been hurt by the entry of Jews into Palestine: there is not a single Arab who does not see himself as part of the Arab race… In his eyes, Palestine is an independent unit.

— Moshe Shertok, Speech MAPAI Central Committee, June 9th 1936


They Said No to the Notion That Palestine Was Desolate and Empty

In our lovely country there exists an entire people who have held it for centuries and to whom it would never occur to leave…The time has come to dispel the misconception among Zionists that land in Palestine lies uncultivated for lack of working hands or the laziness of the local residents. There are no deserted fields.
— Yitzhak Epstein, "The Hidden Question," 1907

They Said No to the Exchange of Political for Economic Rights

You say my house has been enriched by the strangers who have entered it. But it is my house, and I did not invite the strangers in, or ask them to enrich it, and I do not care how poor or bare it is if only I am master in it.

—1937 Royal Commission Report, paraphrasing the remarks of an Arab witness

The Arabs Said No to the Jewish Settlement Enterprise

Land is the most necessary thing for our establishing roots in Palestine. Since there are hardly any more arable unsettled lands in Palestine, we are bound in each case of the purchase of land and its settlements to remove the peasants who cultivated the land so far, both owners of the land and tenants.
—Arthur Ruppin, 1930

They Said No to the Reneging on Promises, and They Said No to the Incongruity Enshrined in the 1917 Balfour Declaration

There is not one nation in the world that would accept voluntarily and of its own desire that its position should be changed in a manner which will have an effect on its rights and prejudice its interests … We as a nation are human beings with our own culture and civilization and we feel as any other nation would feel. It will have to be imposed on us by force.

— Awni Abd al-Hadi, Testimony to Royal Peel Commission, 1937


Finally, the Palestinian Arabs Said No to the "Generous Offers" of Partition, Made by the Royal Palestine (Peel) Commission in 1937 and the UN in 1947.

This opposition [to partition] is based upon the unwavering conviction of unshakeable rights and a conviction of the injustice of forcing a long-settled population to accept immigrants without its consent being asked and against its known and expressed will; the injustice of turning a majority into a minority in its own country; the injustice of withholding self-government until the Zionists are in the majority and able to profit by it.

— Albert Hourani, Statement to the Anglo-American Commission of Inquiry, 1946

The Original “No”: Why the Arabs Rejected Zionism, and Why It Matters - Middle East Policy Council

Natasha Gill Natasha Gill is the founder and director of TRACK4, which runs negotiation simulations for mediators, diplomats, journalists, policy makers, students and people directly involved in conflict. A viable peace process does not require either party to embrace or even recognize the...

mepc.org

Ahh... Jew hatred. There's nothing like it. You notice they said no every time? Yes they want the Israelis gone. And it's obvious from history they will try and kill everyone one to make it happen.

 

[rjs330]

To assume (as many commenting here do) that Palestinians could have simply kicked Hamas out of Gaza over the last 10-15 years is an incredibility naive and uninformed position.

The truth is they didn't want to. As of 2021 Over 50% supported them. So it's kind of a moot point.

But I haven't heard anyone marching for the removal of Hamas. No Palestinian group, none in the United nations, no one marching or declaring Hamas has to go. We only hear that Israel has to go.

 

[rjs330]

Many Palestinians in the West Bank have been killed by the IDF and Jewish settlers (2657 + 83) since the 2nd intifada until Oct 6th. Hamas does not rule the West Bank. It is Israel's bombardment that is killing Gazans. This "war" i.e. conflict started in 1948 if not before.
Database on fatalities and house demolitions

It's clearly illegal to kill civilians for merely voting in a particular way.

Not when it's in self defense against a people who have been shooting rockets at you forever and launched an attack against your people. Children were raped so hard that their pelvises broke. People were burned alive. Yeah attacking g people who did that to you and their supporters? Not illegal.

 

[Vanellus]

What lands were taken in 1948? Who took them?

I don't want to give out history lessons but for centuries before your grandad was born there was this large and powerful empire called the Ottoman Empire that ruled over the whole region and much more territory and you might call them "colonizers" or "slavers" but the people living in Palestine just called them "the guys in charge that own this place".

Then, as empires tend to do, the once mighty Ottomans got weaker and weaker, lost much of their territory in several wars....until losing that particular region to the British post WW1. This isn't a matter of dispute. Nobody questioned that it was Ottoman territory and nobody questioned that they ceded control of the region to the British. It's indisputable.

Now the British controlled the land and while the locals caused them some trouble, it wasn't a big concern...after all WW2 was starting up and the British had more to worry about.

The locals, as it turned out, were big fans of the nazis. They shared a similar hatred of jews. When WW2 closed...a lot of Jewish people had been displaced...either fleeing their countries or not wanting to stay in them because so many of their countrymen were more than willing to hand jews over to the nazis. Poland is notorious for this, of course, but they aren't the only ones...even places that the nazis hadn't invaded were shipping their jews to the nazis for extermination. Antisemitism was so common for so long it was rampant all throughout the political spectrum....

Some jews had already had an idea for a land of their own where they could be safe from the antisemitism that dogged them wherever they went....and after the cold bureaucratic nature of the Holocaust was revealed to the world...a lot of people felt this was not only a good idea, but the least they could do for sitting by while jews were being exterminated.

And so the British decided to give a portion of the region to the jews for their own nation to live in....and everyone learned that the Arabs and various Islamic cultures of the middle east were some of the worst antisemites of all.

I'm leaving a fair portion out but I'm not your history teacher...those are the broad strokes up to 1948.

So who exactly stole what from whom?

I understand that many of the locals decided to "fight the jewish people" for the land and because they had the backing of many of their Arab neighbors who actually had armies....they thought they'd win and there was no need to settle for control of just part of the region. Sadly for them...they got beaten like a rented mule. In a nearly unprecedented display of generosity...the Israeli people actually handed back large chunks of what the locals lost...in hopes that this generosity would lead to peaceful relationships with their new neighbors.

As it turns out....that was probably a mistake and they should have just kept it. Everyone would be better off now if they had.

So please....enlighten me on this problem you speak of?




Well you're talking about a home invader...implying that the home is mine.

The jewish people didn't take anything from anyone....it was given to them from the British...who got it from the Ottomans.

If we go back any further we'll be discussing the Holy Roman Empire and the people they took the land from....the jews.


I don't understand who the home invader is here....the British? The Ottomans? Who?




If it's an apartment full of terrorists and their supporters....they absolutely should.

Palestinians owned their own homes and properties while living under Turkish and British rule. Then they were chased off their own land with violence when the state of Israel was created.

(Jewish historian) Tom Segev concluded that "most of the Arabs in the country, approximately 400,000, were chased out and expelled during the first stage of the war. In other words, before the Arab armies invaded the country" (Haaretz, July 18, 2010)

 

[Vanellus]

What makes you think all life is equal? All life isn't equal. Evil people are not equal to good people. The rapist is not equal to the victim.

Is a Palestinian baby "equal" to a Jewish baby?

 

[rjs330]

To limit civilian casualties and suffering. Its easier with modern weapons, satellite images and better trained army.

Apparently it isn't. And you have no idea what you are talking about. Haven't we been hearing about how all these Hamas live with their families and are surrounded by other Palestinians? How you can't tell a Hamas or a Hamas supporter just by looking at them?

You've been watching too many movies. Satellite images don't have the ability to parse out Hamas supports and those who aren't. They dont have the ability to see which Arab that is dressed line all the other Arabs happens to be Hamas and which aren't. That's exactly why Hamas wants the shields. Cause you can't tell the difference when looking at them. That's why they wouldn't let them go. They need to hide among them. There is not an easy or clean way to do this.

Far many of you think that a clean war is possible in these circumstances. It's not.

 

[JosephZ]

70% under 30? Where did all those Palestinians go that voted for Hamas? They all die? Like I said that was only 20 years ago.

Nope, there just wasn't as many Palestinians in Gaza when the vote took place as there are today. The population of Gaza was only around 1.3 million in 2006 compared to 2+ million today.

At least 53% of Palestinians support Hamas. So it sounds like they would just get voted in again.

Not likely. In a poll taken just four months ago, 69% of Palestinians said Hamas doesn't deserve to represent the Palestinian people

 

[Vanellus]

Cornell University Jewish community threatened in online posts; police, FBI investigate

Cornell University Jewish students were threatened online on Sunday and now the university police and FBI are investigating the threats.

www.foxnews.com

Not ironic, is that Jewish students have been having to hide in school libraries, and attics, while pro-Palestinian rallies take place on campus. Now pro-Palestinian students are threatening to kill Jewish students online.

...Nobody has threatened Palestinian students, however. We see where the evil is..!

Much worse than killing over 8000 by heroically bombing them from the air when the opposition have no air force.

 

[rjs330]

All this evil, revenge and the circle of violence is terrible. So much death on both sides. If people could just go with "love your enemy", "do good to your neighbor", "better suffer a loss", as Christianity teaches...

I agree, but we don't live in that world. As was demonstrated once again on October 7. All of those people are not Christians. They are unbelievers who could care less what Christ had to say. Just like all the other people who say the same thing here in America.

But one thing we do know as that Israel has all th right in the world even biblically to protect their people and visit vengeance on evil doers who would do them harm. That's biblical too.

 

[rjs330]

Is a Palestinian baby "equal" to a Jewish baby?

We've seen what those Palestinian babies grow up to be. Jew hating murdering terrorists. We've got the pictures.

Once again it's the Palestinians who are guilty here. And if you create a society where you raise your kids to hate and practice killing Jews well then who entire society is wicked and underserved of existence.

STOP DOING THAT. If you just stop Israel will to. All you are doing is bringing righteous vengeance upon your own house.