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Should Hamas Surrender?

Should Hamas surrender to Israel?

  • No, Israel should surrender

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    34

ThatRobGuy

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maybe the zionists who have colenized and supressed the Palestinians for 75 years should up sticks and return to their native countries ...
Which native countries are those?

They were driven out of their native countries by Islamists and were forced to settle in a patch of land the size of New Jersey that was carved out for them.

1697844239383.png


The above would suggest that it was a case where predominantly Muslim nations decided "we don't want them here" and when they went somewhere else, they all said "well, we don't want them there either"

It's almost like they don't want them to exist at all from the sounds of it...
 
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RocksInMyHead

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While you make a good point about a DIFFERENT website, if the clear agenda was an issue, then even a cursory look at it should give some hints of problems with the information. The situation that those articles are dealing with are VERY subjective; data is not nearly as subjective.
They're the same website - just different pages within it. And while data is objective, it can definitely be presented subjectively. If you cherry-pick data that supports your point of view, you can easily create a narrative that runs counter to reality.
But the website is just graphs. Ita data. I just don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the website outright because it has obvious bias. It's a bit of an ad hominem non?
I'm not dismissing it outright - I'm saying that it may not be a reliable source based on its biased reporting. Do the Israelis do bad things to the Palestinians? Absolutely. Are they worse than the things the Palestinians do to the Israelis? Not sure - but I wouldn't rely solely on a website that's clearly focused on pushing the idea that the Israelis are terrible people to inform my opinion, and I definitely wouldn't link to that site when trying to change someone's mind.
You know what I would love if you could find it though? ANY kind of data that would show this kind of imbalance that Israeli's are on the losing end of. Because I have the worrying thought that there really isn't a rubric where Palestine isn't suffering exponentially more than Israelis.
I don't really think it's productive to get into a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ing match over who's worse.

Edit to correct: just noticed that the article was hosted on a different site. However, it was written by the person who founded ifamericansknew.org (Alison Weir) and was originally published on their own news/analysis site (israelpalestinenews.org) before being re-hosted by IMEMC (which is also owned by If Americans Knew).
 
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Ana the Ist

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maybe the zionists who have colenized and supressed the Palestinians for 75 years should up sticks and return to their native countries ...

Fun fact.

Israel is not a colony, nor was it ever a colony. Israel is a sovereign nation.
 
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Ana the Ist

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i am in favour of the people of Palestine not being discriminated against by the present apartheid

Fun fact #2...

Apartheid is a race based class system, and no such system exists in Israel.



regime and also not being genocided by this same fascist zionist agenda ....

You know what? I'll just keep it simple and point out you're also using the term fascist wrong.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Which native countries are those?

They were driven out of their native countries by Islamists and were forced to settle in a patch of land the size of New Jersey that was carved out for them.

View attachment 338039

The above would suggest that it was a case where predominantly Muslim nations decided "we don't want them here" and when they went somewhere else, they all said "well, we don't want them there either"

It's almost like they don't want them to exist at all from the sounds of it...

You ever think it's weird that the same political side of the aisle that threw a 4-5 year hissy fit about guys with tiki torches...

Now fervently support actual nazis and ethno-nationalists in the Ukraine, to the point of overlooking selling them cluster bombs (a war crime and humanitarian disaster)




....and even support Palestine despite Palestinians overwhelmingly rejecting a 2 state solution.


I mean...one has to wonder how few people have to support a 2 state solution in Palestine before those on the left abandon their support. I think if 1 Palestinian said he supported a peaceful 2 state solution....the young leftists here in the US would claim they're with that guy lol.

I know that sounds a bit grim...but I can't recall left wing protesters ever arguing over whether or not Palestinian terrorists beheaded babies before. They aren't arguing that the terrorists didn't kill babies at all....just that they didn't behead them. It's not an argument worth having imo.

I feel bad for young Israelis and Jews here in the US. There's a preponderance of them on the left. They marched with BLM, they supported a lot of this "intersectionality" nonsense.

They're now learning that none of that actually matters. While their relatives and friends went through the Israeli equivalent of 9/11....their political peers celebrated the terrorists and want sympathy for the murderers.
 
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because if they send their poorly trained reservists into Gaza to fight a street battle they will take heavy casualties, and should Hezbolla Iran and Jordan and other Arab nations send in troops (because of the genocide happening in Gaza) most Israelies with dual passports will high tail it out of there as they be already doing so, not to mention a large portion of Israelies who stand against Netanyaho's fascist government can see this happening because of his stance against the Palastinians ...

if this war sucks in the Arab nations Israel as a state is finished as will any influence the USA has in the region ...
 
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Fun fact #2...

Apartheid is a race based class system, and no such system exists in Israel.





You know what? I'll just keep it simple and point out you're also using the term fascist wrong.

it is most definatly an apartheid system and the current political party is most definatly fascist ...
 
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Which native countries are those?

They were driven out of their native countries by Islamists and were forced to settle in a patch of land the size of New Jersey that was carved out for them.

View attachment 338039

The above would suggest that it was a case where predominantly Muslim nations decided "we don't want them here" and when they went somewhere else, they all said "well, we don't want them there either"

It's almost like they don't want them to exist at all from the sounds of it...

what i wrote was in reply to another saying the Palastinians should go to Egypt ... also i specifically said zionists as it is the zionists who are hell bent on genociding the native Palastinians ....
 
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Ana the Ist

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because if they send their poorly trained reservists into Gaza to fight a street battle they will take heavy casualties,

I don't know where you're coming up with this fantasy...but urban warfare is where the IDF is arguably the strongest.


and should Hezbolla Iran

Iran lost the best military mind they had when Trump zapped him into the phantom zone. Their response was to call ahead and make sure they didn't accidentally kill any US forces in a strike they made to save face....and then they accidentally shot down a Ukrainian commercial airliner.

With Biden trailing in the polls and a real chance of Trump being reelected....I don't think they'll roll the dice on a conflict with a nuclear power like Israel.




and Jordan and other Arab nations send in troops

They won't. I know they think Biden is weak and that may have factored into this attack...

The reality is we're pretty friendly militarily with many of those states, including Jordan.


I don't see Jordan lending more than the military equivalent of a Hallmark "get well soon card". Saudi Arabia buys their weapons from us...to bomb Libya back into the stone age. Turkey won't move, they won't want us rearming Kurds and Kurds will gladly shoot at pretty much anyone we ask as a favor for rearming them. Egypt hasn't shown any sympathy for Palestinians and frankly, I'd say they're Palestine's most likely supporters. I think Qatar might have been willing to covertly help them in the past but ever since those Trump Era middle east accords....I'd be surprised if they still did. Other nations like Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan aren't likely to do anything simply because they're in various stages of war or post war recovery. In fact, Afghanistan getting a free cache of US weapons can actually work in Israel's favor because the Taliban hates Iran....and should they move against Israel the Taliban may be tempted to move against Iran.

Obviously, I don't know you or why you have these fantasies of Palestinian victory but it seems rather obvious that if your opening strategy in a military conflict is to abduct hostages in hope that your enemy won't turn you into a smoldering pile of ash....you clearly aren't even ready for a battle in the "streets" let alone a victory.




(because of the genocide happening in Gaza) most Israelies with dual passports will high tail it out of there as they be already doing so, not to mention a large portion of Israelies who stand against Netanyaho's fascist government can see this happening because of his stance against the Palastinians ...


2500 isn't exactly a lot of Israelies....not to mention the Jewish people entering Israel to do their part.


if this war sucks in the Arab nations Israel as a state is finished as will any influence the USA has in the region ...

Sucks in the Arab nations?

I'm not an expert on middle east geopolitics but more Arab nations than ever are maintaining friendly relations with Israel. When they had to fight alone with weapons and intelligence supplied by their foreign allies like the US and Britain....Israel mopped the floor with a coalition of Arab states in a humbling defeat that happened in near record time. I know that if we go back enough decades....Arab states would openly threaten Israel, but that's died down a lot over the years. Now they're more interested in building strategic alliances with Israel with few dedicated enemies like Iran. Again, Iran had a competent if not brilliant military general in Soliemani....but now he's just a crater in a road somewhere thanks to Trump.
 
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Ana the Ist

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the zionists have colenized Palastine ... no way around this fact ...

Colony, noun-

a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country, typically a distant one, and occupied by settlers from that country.


Israel isn't under the control of any foreign nation. By definition, it's not a colony. Words have meanings... and while it's okay that you don't understand the meaning of colony....I do.

There's no way around that fact.

it is most definatly an apartheid system and the current political party is most definatly fascist ...

Again, words have meanings...


"Apartheid was a system of institutionalised racial segregation that existed in South Africa and South West Africa (now Namibia) from 1948 to the early 1990s.[note 1] "

Now....even if you were to broaden the term Apartheid to include religious segregation instead of racial segregation and class based institutions....it still doesn't apply to Israel, which promotes religious tolerance and doesn't exclude Muslims.

In fact, if the word applies to either side....it clearly applies to Palestine more than Israel. Palestinians are far less inclined towards and accepting of religious freedom than Israel is.

Honestly, I get that you're just repeating talking points you heard somewhere and probably don't stop to think about what those words mean in any meaningful ways. Its merely political rhetoric that is thrown around in hopes of gaining some sort of moral high ground that doesn't exist.

I know what those words mean though and I understand they don't apply.
 
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I don't know where you're coming up with this fantasy...but urban warfare is where the IDF is arguably the strongest.




Iran lost the best military mind they had when Trump zapped him into the phantom zone. Their response was to call ahead and make sure they didn't accidentally kill any US forces in a strike they made to save face....and then they accidentally shot down a Ukrainian commercial airliner.

With Biden trailing in the polls and a real chance of Trump being reelected....I don't think they'll roll the dice on a conflict with a nuclear power like Israel.






They won't. I know they think Biden is weak and that may have factored into this attack...

The reality is we're pretty friendly militarily with many of those states, including Jordan.


I don't see Jordan lending more than the military equivalent of a Hallmark "get well soon card". Saudi Arabia buys their weapons from us...to bomb Libya back into the stone age. Turkey won't move, they won't want us rearming Kurds and Kurds will gladly shoot at pretty much anyone we ask as a favor for rearming them. Egypt hasn't shown any sympathy for Palestinians and frankly, I'd say they're Palestine's most likely supporters. I think Qatar might have been willing to covertly help them in the past but ever since those Trump Era middle east accords....I'd be surprised if they still did. Other nations like Syria, Iraq, Libya, and Afghanistan aren't likely to do anything simply because they're in various stages of war or post war recovery. In fact, Afghanistan getting a free cache of US weapons can actually work in Israel's favor because the Taliban hates Iran....and should they move against Israel the Taliban may be tempted to move against Iran.

Obviously, I don't know you or why you have these fantasies of Palestinian victory but it seems rather obvious that if your opening strategy in a military conflict is to abduct hostages in hope that your enemy won't turn you into a smoldering pile of ash....you clearly aren't even ready for a battle in the "streets" let alone a victory.







2500 isn't exactly a lot of Israelies....not to mention the Jewish people entering Israel to do their part.




Sucks in the Arab nations?

I'm not an expert on middle east geopolitics but more Arab nations than ever are maintaining friendly relations with Israel. When they had to fight alone with weapons and intelligence supplied by their foreign allies like the US and Britain....Israel mopped the floor with a coalition of Arab states in a humbling defeat that happened in near record time. I know that if we go back enough decades....Arab states would openly threaten Israel, but that's died down a lot over the years. Now they're more interested in building strategic alliances with Israel with few dedicated enemies like Iran. Again, Iran had a competent if not brilliant military general in Soliemani....but now he's just a crater in a road somewhere thanks to Trump.

its a myth that Israels forces are strong at urban warfare ... for the most part they are reservists who are adapted to riot patroling kids throwing stones ... that aside you have made good points, however this is all changing due to Israel genociding the Palastinians in Gaza, which is uniting the Arabs all over the world ... the Arab states may not want to enter the conflict due to your analysis, however they also want to maintain power within their countries and therefore are subject to the people who are at this time volenteering in mass to go to the aid of their Arab brothers ...

warfare has changed dramatically in the region of late ... Iran as does Hezbolla holds tens of thousands of large accurate misiles which cou;ld easily destroy the military of Israel which at present is out in the open ... not to mention the millitary bases and navy of the USA in the region are now sitting ducks because of these rockets ... as for nukes Pakistan recently vowed to nuke Israel should Israel nuke Iran ...

the people of Israel because of the arogance and blood lust of Netanyahu are extremely vulnreble at this time ...










and for the record i am not suporting any side in this war as it will not resolve anything but only kill maim and destroy
 
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Colony, noun-

a country or area under the full or partial political control of another country, typically a distant one, and occupied by settlers from that country.


Israel isn't under the control of any foreign nation. By definition, it's not a colony. Words have meanings... and while it's okay that you don't understand the meaning of colony....I do.

There's no way around that fact.



Again, words have meanings...


"Apartheid was a system of institutionalised racial segregation that existed in South Africa and South West Africa (now Namibia) from 1948 to the early 1990s.[note 1] "

Now....even if you were to broaden the term Apartheid to include religious segregation instead of racial segregation and class based institutions....it still doesn't apply to Israel, which promotes religious tolerance and doesn't exclude Muslims.

In fact, if the word applies to either side....it clearly applies to Palestine more than Israel. Palestinians are far less inclined towards and accepting of religious freedom than Israel is.

Honestly, I get that you're just repeating talking points you heard somewhere and probably don't stop to think about what those words mean in any meaningful ways. Its merely political rhetoric that is thrown around in hopes of gaining some sort of moral high ground that doesn't exist.

I know what those words mean though and I understand they don't apply.
Oxford dictionary COLONIZED send settlers to (a place) and establish political control over it.
 
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Fantine

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Fun fact #2...

Apartheid is a race based class system, and no such system exists in Israel.





You know what? I'll just keep it simple and point out you're also using the term fascist wrong.
So what do you call a religion-based class system?

If this was India, the Palestinians would be the "untouchables."

Their inability to travel without going through checkpoints (or at all) seems similar to the yellow star Jews had to wear in Nazi Germany.

BTW, apartheid by any other name is just as evil.
 
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Lukaris

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I love the experts who only focus on the faults of the Israelis because Israel is always wrong in their anointed understanding. Facts are brought up about the criminal Palestinian, Syrian, Iranian leaders who export violent revolution & they go back to their useless rhetoric, “fascist, apartheid bla bla .”
 
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I love the experts who only focus on the faults of the Israelis because Israel is always wrong in their anointed understanding. Facts are brought up about the criminal Palestinian, Syrian, Iranian leaders who export violent revolution & they go back to their useless rhetoric, “fascist, apartheid bla bla .”
I am quite certain that we would be able to discover that 'the experts' have a much more nuanced response to this violence and would cast blame on both sides, unfortunately this generalized comment against 'the experts' is void of context in order dig deeper into a better understanding.
 
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Ana the Ist

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its a myth that Israels forces are strong at urban warfare ... for the most part they are reservists who are adapted to riot patroling kids throwing stones ... that aside you have made good points, however this is all changing due to Israel genociding the Palastinians in Gaza, which is uniting the Arabs all over the world ... the Arab states may not want to enter the conflict due to your analysis, however they also want to maintain power within their countries and therefore are subject to the people who are at this time volenteering in mass to go to the aid of their Arab brothers ...

That's interesting. If you're correct...yeah, that could pose problems for Israel.

warfare has changed dramatically in the region of late ... Iran as does Hezbolla holds tens of thousands of large accurate misiles which cou;ld easily destroy the military of Israel which at present is out in the open ...

Out in the open?

Israel has vowed in the past that they will not allow any large scale destruction of their people again. If Iran launches...they almost certainly will be nuked. If Pakistan has vowed to retaliate should this happen....they may get nuked along with Iran.


not to mention the millitary bases and navy of the USA in the region are now sitting ducks because of these rockets ... as for nukes Pakistan recently vowed to nuke Israel should Israel nuke Iran ...

I don't think Iran would risk becoming Iraq. US carrier groups are far from "sitting ducks".

the people of Israel because of the arogance and blood lust of Netanyahu are extremely vulnreble at this time ...

I think it's going to be an extended bombing campaign and whomever is left to fight in Palestine will be swept aside with gusto once troops come pouring in.

But time will tell....so there's not much point in speculation.

and for the record i am not suporting any side in this war as it will not resolve anything but only kill maim and destroy

That seems to be the popular position.

I support Israel unequivocally. I think it was ultimately a mistake to cede conquered territory back to the Palestinians and even they would have benefited from resettling in one of their foreign neighbor countries.
 
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