Hamas-Israel News Thread

[essentialsaltes]

JUST IN: Hamas Confirmed to Have Released Two American Hostages Abducted During Horrific Attack on Israel (~200 total hostages still held)​

 

[JosephZ]

Hamas genocidal intentions we never secret:

The most relevant of the document’s 36 articles can be summarized as falling within four main themes:

1. The complete destruction of Israel as an essential condition for the liberation of Palestine and the establishment of a theocratic state based on Islamic law (Sharia),
2. The need for both unrestrained and unceasing holy war (jihad) to attain the above objective,
3. The deliberate disdain for, and dismissal of, any negotiated resolution or political settlement of Jewish and Muslim claims to the Holy Land, and
4. The reinforcement of historical anti-Semitic tropes and calumnies married to sinister conspiracy theories.

This, along with the actions of Hamas, is why they've been designated as a terrorist group by many countries, and rightfully so.

 

[JosephZ]

You know where one of the battle headquarters is located? In or under the hospital. In order to take them out the Israelis need the citizens gone in order to stop Hamas.

It's going to take ground forces to root out Hamas from their underground tunnels and bunkers. Aerial bombing of hospitals isn't going to do it and will only make life more difficult for Palestnians for years to come. The sad thing about all of this is that many Israeli soldiers and countless civilians are going to die in a war that can't be won.

...Hamas needs to give up the fight, and surrender. Immediately.

If Hamas surrendered it would be over.

A surrender leaves Hamas intact and would only be temporary. Hamas would lay low for awhile and resume attacks on Israel at some point in the future. They may even emerge stronger as they will have no problem finding recruits and support following all of the devestation and carnage that has taken place since the October 7th attack on Israel.

 

[wing2000]

You know where one of the battle headquarters is located? In or under the hospital. In order to take them out the Israelis need the citizens gone in order to stop Hamas. This is Israel once again doing what they can to limit civilian casualties.

If Hamas surrendered it would be over. But again they DONT CARE about their own people.

To expect a hospital with 400 patients in a war zone to evacuate is simply unrealistic. Even more so when the hospitals are barely able to function with resources cut off and no safe evacuation route. Let's get real here. If it was your family in that hospital, you would expect Israel to exercise a bit humane judgement no?

Israel has a choice when it comes to targeting Hamas military assets near or in hospitals. They can chose to bomb the target and write off the inevitable loss of human life or they can use other means to go after Hamas.

 

[wing2000]

[note the sources are religious officials from the Greek Orthodox Chuch]

"The historic Greek Orthodox Church of St. Porphyrius, Gaza’s oldest active church, was struck Thursday by Israel as it sheltered hundreds of Palestinians displaced by the war, according to religious officials.

Maher Ayyad, 72, a member of the community, said the strike hit a two-story building in the church compound, killing 18 people and injuring at least 20. About 100 people were in the bombed building at the time of the strike, he said, and about 400 displaced civilians, mainly Christians, were taking shelter in the entire complex.

Among those reported killed were relatives of former U.S. representative Justin Amash, a Libertarian who once represented Michigan’s 3rd Congressional District."

There are about 1,000 Palestinian Christians remaining in Gaza, and the loss was “huge” for the community, Ayyad said. About 500 Christians, including Ayyad, have relocated to the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate School in Gaza City.

The Israel Defense Forces said in an emailed statement that a strike targeting a Hamas control center “damaged the wall of a church in the area” and that it was “aware of reports on casualties” and was reviewing the incident.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/20/gaza-church-strike-saint-porphyrius/

 

[Vanellus]

However many Palestinians get killed... It's all 100% Hamas' fault, because every single Israeli strike is in reaction to Hamas' continued rocket firings - which must be stopped..

Criticism of the IDF is not support for Hamas.

 

[rjs330]

It's going to take ground forces to root out Hamas from their underground tunnels and bunkers. Aerial bombing of hospitals isn't going to do it and will only make life more difficult for Palestnians for years to come. The sad thing about all of this is that many Israeli soldiers and countless civilians are going to die in a war that can't be won.



A surrender leaves Hamas intact and would only be temporary. Hamas would lay low for awhile and resume attacks on Israel at some point in the future. They may even emerge stronger as they will have no problem finding recruits and support following all of the devestation and carnage that has taken place since the October 7th attack on Israel.

An unconditional surrender saves their people. You see how hypocritical this entire thing is?

Israel attacks Hamas and all it does is create more recruits.

Hamas surrenders and all it does is create more recruits.

Hamas wins no matter what. Well according to you anyway.

If Hamas surrenders at least they aren't responsible for the death of their people. Surrender, lay down their arms, turn over everything to Israel and the war is over. Israel isn't interested in anything else.

They don't want to rule Gaza. In fact they have tried to work things out so Gaza has their own government and country. The Palestinians are responsible for that not happening.

 

[rjs330]

Criticism of the IDF is not support for Hamas.

Do you blanketly condemn Hamas for all their actions before and during this conflict?

 

[rjs330]

To expect a hospital with 400 patients in a war zone to evacuate is simply unrealistic. Even more so when the hospitals are barely able to function with resources cut off and no safe evacuation route. Let's get real here. If it was your family in that hospital, you would expect Israel to exercise a bit humane judgement no?

Israel has a choice when it comes to targeting Hamas military assets near or in hospitals. They can chose to bomb the target and write off the inevitable loss of human life or they can use other means to go after Hamas.

I'm not buying it. If it were your family members who were burned alive and had their babies heads chopped off in front of them i don't think you would be sounding so reasonable. Especially if you knew there was a headquarters and weaponry upon the hospital. Having the hospital evacuate is reasonable under the circumstances.

 

[JosephZ]

An unconditional surrender saves their people. You see how hypocritical this entire thing is?

Israel attacks Hamas and all it does is create more recruits.

Hamas surrenders and all it does is create more recruits.

Hamas wins no matter what. Well according to you anyway.

As I said earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it again, the only way to end this cycle of violence is for Israel to recognize and respect a Palestinian state and improve the lives of the Palestinian people. Israel will have to also play a direct role in rebuilding Gaza and improving infrastructure. This, along with supporting economic development and offering livelihood opportunities, would go a long way in changing the attitude and mindset of those who live in Gaza. If Israel can show that they care more about the Palestinian people than Hamas, then Hamas will lose the support of the Palestinian people and their primary recruiting tool. This is the only way to destroy Hamas. To make this happen, it will take a concerted effort by the Israeli government, the UN, NGO's, and the Palestinians themselves.

 

[essentialsaltes]

[note the sources are religious officials from the Greek Orthodox Chuch]

"The historic Greek Orthodox Church of St. Porphyrius, Gaza’s oldest active church, was struck Thursday by Israel as it sheltered hundreds of Palestinians displaced by the war, according to religious officials.

Former GOP (and briefly Libertarian) Congressman Justin Amash notes relatives were killed in the attack that damaged the church. Amash (born in the US) was the first Palestinian American elected to Congress.

 

[rjs330]

As I said earlier in this thread, and I'll repeat it again, the only way to end this cycle of violence is for Israel to recognize and respect a Palestinian state and improve the lives of the Palestinian people. Israel will have to also play a direct role in rebuilding Gaza and improving infrastructure. This, along with supporting economic development and offering livelihood opportunities, would go a long way in changing the attitude and mindset of those who live in Gaza. If Israel can show that they care more about the Palestinian people than Hamas, then Hamas will lose the support of the Palestinian people and their primary recruiting tool. This is the only way to destroy Hamas. To make this happen, it will take a concerted effort by the Israeli government, the UN, NGO's, and the Palestinians themselves.

Man are you kidding. Israel has tried to allow a Palestinian state for years. The Palestinians have rejected every proposal.

Israel isn't responsible at all for any of those things. How about Egypt helps, Jordan, Iran. You haven't been paying attention at all to history have you. You know Egypt doesn't want anything to do with them. Jordan doesn't, either there does Iraq. But you somehow expect Israel to after the Palestinians have been trying to kill them for years. And after they went in and burned babies, beheaded babies, raped the women and burned families alive? And Israel is supposed to just lay down and roll over?

What about the Palestinians. Why aren't you telling them they should lay down their arms, give up and help their own people. You know Hamas refused to allow their people to drill wells? They took the money from others that was sent as aid and bought weapons without? They took the pipe that was given then for water pipes and made rockets out of them?

Israel creat d the Iron Dome just to protect itself from Palestinian rockets. The have built bomb shelters for their citizens because Palestinians kept bombing them.

Yet you think Israel should be responsible for giving them money and aid?

You don't understand the Palestinian mind at all. They don't think like you and me. They aren't interested in Israeli aid. They are interested in Israeli deaths.

Palestinians Rejected Statehood Three Times, Claim Frustration — with Israel

Palestinians may indeed be frustrated with more than 18 years of on-again, off-again negotiations, but the question is with whom should they be frustrated

www.camera.org

 

[rjs330]

NPR notes people who lost family members in Hamas attack.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/17/1206359243/survivors-of-the-hamas-attack-on-kibbutz-beeri-describe-the-apocalyptic-scene

 

[rjs330]

Woman was talking with family when they were killed by Hamas.

https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2023/10/11/israel-woman-family-members-killed-hamas-attack-sot-cnc-vpx.cnn

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

You know where one of the battle headquarters is located? In or under the hospital. In order to take them out the Israelis need the citizens gone in order to stop Hamas. This is Israel once again doing what they can to limit civilian casualties.

Unless it is being used as an active combat position, attacking a hospital (or a church) is a war crime.

 

[JosephZ]

Israel has tried to allow a Palestinian state for years. The Palestinians have rejected every proposal.

There hasn't been any serious dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians in well over a decade.

Israel isn't responsible at all for any of those things. How about Egypt helps, Jordan, Iran.

If Israel ever wants to have a peaceful coexistence with Palestinians and the surrounding Arab nations and defeat terrorist groups like Hamas and hezbollah, Israel must play a key role rebuilding Gaza. This can be done in conjunction with surrounding Arab countries and the international community, but Israel should be the one to lead these efforts.

You haven't been paying attention at all to history have you.

Yes I have, and history tells us a couple of things; first, the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians isn't going to be resolved by war; and second, military force alone can't defeat a terrorist group like Hamas.

You know Hamas refused to allow their people to drill wells? They took the money from others that was sent as aid and bought weapons without? They took the pipe that was given then for water pipes and made rockets out of them?

Hamas is a terrorist group, those types of actions should be expected.

But you somehow expect Israel to after the Palestinians have been trying to kill them for years. And after they went in and burned babies, beheaded babies, raped the women and burned families alive? And Israel is supposed to just lay down and roll over?

What about the Palestinians. Why aren't you telling them they should lay down their arms, give up and help their own people.

The have built bomb shelters for their citizens because Palestinians kept bombing them.

You don't understand the Palestinian mind at all. They don't think like you and me. They aren't interested in Israeli aid. They are interested in Israeli deaths.

Palestinans≠Hamas

 

[rjs330]

Unless it is being used as an active combat position, attacking a hospital (or a church) is a war crime.

In fact in this case it is not a war crime.

 

[rjs330]

There hasn't been any serious dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians in well over a decade.

Who's fault is that? Certainly not Israel.

If Israel ever wants to have a peaceful coexistence with Palestinians and the surrounding Arab nations and defeat terrorist groups like Hamas and hezbollah, Israel must play a key role rebuilding Gaza. This can be done in conjunction with surrounding Arab countries and the international community, but Israel should be the one to lead these efforts.

No it doesn't. Why does Israel have to lead the efforts? Why aren't you calling for Hamas and the Palestinians to lead the efforts?

Yes I have, and history tells us a couple of things; first, the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians isn't going to be resolved by war; and second, military force alone can't defeat a terrorist group like Hamas.

Then you should tell that to the Palestinians. Guess who makes up Hamas. PALESTINIANS . They started the war. I get the feeling they won't listen to you though and all your wisdom. Because they just want to kill the Jews.

Since they can't fight Hamas, and can't talk to Hamas, what do they do? Just die then? Hamas doesn't want dialogue. They want all the Jews dead. They've said so. They proven it by actions. Palestinians want the Jews dead. Every chance they got they've tried to kill Jews.

It's just odd that Palestinians have rejected every offer. Constantly tried to kill Jews. Have called for the extinction of Jews, Constantly attacked Jews no matter who was in power. Chose radical leaders who hate Jews. Shoot rockets at Jews and launched an attack at Jews murdering babies by chopping their heads off and somehow you think they will be reasonable?

And despite all that it's Israel's job to reach out? Israel has been more than reasonable.

 

[rjs330]

Palestinans≠Hamas

Yes they do. Palestinians voted for Hamas. They put Hamas in power and left them there. I don't see any Palestinians calling for the ouster of Hamas. I see Palestinians calling for the death of Jews though.

 

[JosephZ]

Who's fault is that? Certainly not Israel.

Both sides are at fault.

No it doesn't. Why does Israel have to lead the efforts? Why aren't you calling for Hamas and the Palestinians to lead the efforts?

Isn't the end goal to destroy Hamas? Do you think allowing them to assist in the rebuilding of Gaza would help in achieving that goal? Also, if you go back and read my earlier post, you will see that I included the Palestinians as one of the parties in the rebuilding process.

The United States wasn't responsible for all of the catostrophic damage found in most cities in Germany and Western Europe that occurred during World War II, yet it led the way in rebuilding. This played a major role in a long-term path to recovery and political and economic stability in the region. It also benefited the US economy and formed strong relationships between the US and western European countries that continue to this day. Same with Japan.

If the United States hadn't led the way in rebuilding Western Europe and Japan following World War II, someone else would have, and the world would be much different than it is today.

If Israel doesn't lead the way in rebuilding Gaza, someone else will fill that void, and it could eventually lead to the downfall of the state of Israel.

Palestinians voted for Hamas. They put Hamas in power and left them there.

The last election held in Gaza was in 2006 and have since been suspened. At least half of the people in Gaza today either weren't born yet or couldn't vote back then.

I don't see any Palestinians calling for the ouster of Hamas.

The Palestinians aren't happy with their current leadership.

In a poll taken just four months ago, 69% of Palestinians said Hamas doesn't deserve to represent the Palestinian people and satisfaction with the President of the Palestinian National Authority, Abbas, stood at 17% with 80% wanting him to resign.