The first heresy

[Saber Truth Tiger]

And what does "perpetual" mean in Hebrew? I recall that its meaning is "for an undefined period of time" and that it had an implied "until it is fulfilled". The Sabbath, like circumcision, is a sign of a religious bond between God and Israel as a nation and a people who were bound by a law once Moses brought the people out of Egypt. That undefined time was fulfilled when Jesus Christ came to fulfil the Law, which he did, and now that covenant has vanished away, as saint Paul said it would.

Must we begin again to commend ourselves? Or are we in need (as some are) of epistles of commendation for you, or from you? ​

You are our Epistle, written in our hearts, which is known and read by all men. It has been made manifest that you are the Epistle of Christ, ministered by us, and written down, not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, and not on tablets of stone, but on the fleshly tablets of the heart. And we have such faith, through Christ, toward God. ​

It is not that we are adequate to think anything of ourselves, as if anything was from us. But our adequacy is from God. And he has made us suitable ministers of the New Testament, not in the letter, but in the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. ​

But if the ministration of death, engraved with letters upon stones, was in glory, (so much so that the sons of Israel were not able to gaze intently upon the face of Moses, because of the glory of his countenance) even though this ministration was ineffective, how could the ministration of the Spirit not be in greater glory? For if the ministration of condemnation is with glory, so much more is the ministration of justice abundant in glory.​

And neither was it glorified by means of an excellent glory, though it was made illustrious in its own way. For if even what was temporary has its glory, then what is lasting has an even greater glory. ​

Therefore, having such a hope, we act with much confidence, and not as Moses did, in placing a veil over his face, so that the sons of Israel would not gaze intently at his face. This was ineffective, for their minds were obtuse. And, even until this present day, the very same veil, in the readings from the Old Testament, remains not taken away (though, in Christ, it is taken away).​

But even until today, when Moses is read, a veil is still set over their hearts. But when they will have been converted to the Lord, then the veil shall be taken away. Now the Spirit is Lord. And wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Yet truly, all of us, as we gaze upon the unveiled glory of the face of the Lord, are transfigured into the same image, from one glory to another. And this is done by the Spirit of the Lord. ​

2 Corinthians 3:1-18 CPDV2009
The temporary Law is fulfilled, the glory that it came with faded away after a few days or weeks, but the glory of Christ in the new covenant is unfading and his law is truly eternal. It is not by means of sacrifices of bulls, rams, or goats that sins are cleansed away, even though the Law of Moses said that these sacrifices were necessary and "permanent", but since the "permanent" comes to an end when it is fulfilled so the Law is at an end.

All this is about Moses' Law, and all the religious elements in it, including the need to keep dietary restrictions and to be circumcised and to keep sabbath. That is why keeping Saturday as if it were objectively holy and to be observed by gentiles as well as Israelites is bad exegesis. The truth is in Christ, and Christ is the Christian's sabbath rest. The day was a type which is now fulfilled in Christ and which all who are likewise in Christ are by means of Christ's obedience and sacrifice set free from the Law.

None of this is a license to commit sins, none of it makes morality irrelevant as some who are enemies of the gospel preaches by saint Paul and the apostles said in the first century. What is surprising is that the Ebionite heresy is revived by many today - by people who seek to keep the Law and obligate others to do the same.

Xeno.of.athens,​

I am sorry I misspelled your name repeatedly on a previous post I made. I was corrected and I apologise.​

Xeno.of.athens​

And what does "perpetual" mean in Hebrew? I recall that its meaning is "for an undefined period of time" and that it had an implied "until it is fulfilled".​

SABER TRUTH TIGER
It CAN refer to time indefinite but overwhelmingly Hebrew translating the Bible into English render it as perpetual or forever. Why do you think your translation on “time indefinite” have priority over the many Hebrew scholars who translate it as perpetual?

Xeno.of.athens
The Sabbath, like circumcision, is a sign of a religious bond between God and Israel as a nation and a people who were bound by a law once Moses brought the people a out of Egypt.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Jesus claimed the Law was created for Anthropos, or mankind in Mark 2:27. But when Yahweh saw the faithfulness of Abram and he saw the corruptness of mankind as a whole he asked Abram to leave his ancestorial home and move to Caanan and he promised Abram would own this land, not only he, but his descendants as well.

Xeno.of.athens​

That undefined time was fulfilled when Jesus Christ came to fulfil the Law, which he did, and now that covenant has vanished away, as saint Paul said it would.​

SABER TRUTH TIGER
You must take it in context. Exodus 31:15-17, in context declares the Law given in Exodus was an entirely new law apart from the fourth commandment. It was a perpetual law, and it was for the Hebrews, not Gentiles. It would not vanish away because the Scriptures plainly claim that that Law was perpetual and for all their generations. Which is another fancy way of saying forever.

Xeno.of.athens​

(QUOTING 2 Corinthians 3:1-18)

Must we begin again to commend ourselves? Or are we in need (as some are) of epistles of commendation for you, or from you?

You are our Epistle, written in our hearts, which is known and read by all men. It has been made manifest that you are the Epistle of Christ, ministered by us, and written down, not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God, and not on tablets of stone, but on the fleshly tablets of the heart. And we have such faith, through Christ, toward God.

It is not that we are adequate to think anything of ourselves, as if anything was from us. But our adequacy is from God. And he has made us suitable ministers of the New Testament, not in the letter, but in the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

But if the ministration of death, engraved with letters upon stones, was in glory, (so much so that the sons of Israel were not able to gaze intently upon the face of Moses, because of the glory of his countenance) even though this ministration was ineffective, how could the ministration of the Spirit not be in greater glory? For if the ministration of condemnation is with glory, so much more is the ministration of justice abundant in glory.

And neither was it glorified by means of an excellent glory, though it was made illustrious in its own way. For if even what was temporary has its glory, then what is lasting has an even greater glory.

Therefore, having such a hope, we act with much confidence, and not as Moses did, in placing a veil over his face, so that the sons of Israel would not gaze intently at his face. This was ineffective, for their minds were obtuse. And, even until this present day, the very same veil, in the readings from the Old Testament, remains not taken away (though, in Christ, it is taken away).

But even until today, when Moses is read, a veil is still set over their hearts. But when they will have been converted to the Lord, then the veil shall be taken away. Now the Spirit is Lord. And wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Yet truly, all of us, as we gaze upon the unveiled glory of the face of the Lord, are transfigured into the same image, from one glory to another. And this is done by the Spirit of the Lord.

2 Corinthians 3:1-18 CPDV2009

Xeno.of.athens​

The temporary Law is fulfilled, the glory that it came with faded away after a few days or weeks,​

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The Law was said to be perpetual and throughout all the Hebrew’s generations. Fulfilling the Law is not the same thing as abolishing it. Jesus fulfilled the law because 1) he did what the Law said he would do, and 2) he also came to magnify the law and make it honorable (Isaiah 42:21). Moreover, Jesus declared the Law was made for man (Anthropos) and not man for the Sabbath. But I am agreeing with you that the New Covenant was for all who accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The Law still exists for those who choose to obey the Law. The religious Jews are an example. They choose to follow the Law under the first covenant but if they don’t repent, they will be judged by the Law.

Xeno.of.athens​

but the glory of Christ in the new covenant is unfading and his law is truly eternal. It is not by means of sacrifices of bulls, rams, or goats that sins are cleansed away, even though the Law of Moses said that these sacrifices were necessary and "permanent", but since the "permanent" comes to an end when it is fulfilled so the Law is at an end.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The PURPOSE of the Law and its applicability to modern Christians has been replaced by the New Covenant but the Old One, which was abolished for those who choose to accept Christ as their Savior. But the Old Law still exists for those who wish to observe that Law instead.

Xeno.of.athens​

All this is about Moses' Law, and all the religious elements in it, including the need to keep dietary restrictions and to be circumcised and to keep sabbath. That is why keeping Saturday as if it were objectively holy and to be observed by gentiles as well as Israelites is bad exegesis.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
The keeping of the Sabbath is not required for Gentiles but that doesn’t mean it is wrong to celebrate it, as long as you don’t condemn those that don’t and as long as you are not doing it to elevate yourself against your Christian brethren and sisters. Paul said long ago to not judge anyone in regards to the new moons and the Sabbaths. At the time Paul wrote that Gentiles would worship in Jewish synagogues and when the Gentiles wanted to hear more Paul did not tell them to meet him the next day at a certain location, instead, he told them to come back on the Sabbath to hear more. Most scholars admit that most Jews and Gentiles alike that observed the Sabbath did so on Saturday. So, we shouldn’t condemn those who choose a day to worship on, even if it’s not the day we are setting aside for worshiping our creator.

Xeno.of.athens​

The truth is in Christ, and Christ is the Christian's sabbath rest. The day was a type which is now fulfilled in Christ and which all who are likewise in Christ are by means of Christ's obedience and sacrifice set free from the Law.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Yes, Jesus Christ is the Sabbath rest for all Jews and Gentiles embrace Jesus and his Father and strive to keep the New Covenant. By the way, the New Covenant is not perfect either. Just like the Law in the Hebrew Scriptures failed to keep the obedience of the people, the New Covenant has not stopped adherents of the new covenant from sinning either. But the new covenant is for Christians. That doesn’t mean you can’t observe the Sabbath if you choose. Paul wrote that we are not to judge each other if one man esteems one day above the other and another man esteems every day the same. Paul says let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. Paul also writes not to judge anyone inn regards to the new moon or Sabbath.

Xeno.of.athens​

None of this is a license to commit sins, none of it makes morality irrelevant as some who are enemies of the gospel preaches by saint Paul and the apostles said in the first century. What is surprising is that the Ebionite heresy is revived by many today - by people who seek to keep the Law and obligate others to do the same.

SABER TRUTH TIGER
Well, I am not an Ebionite and I don’t try to convert anyone to keep the Sabbath. All I can do is tell everyone how much better I am doing mentally, emotionally, and even physically since I started observing the Sabbath a couple years ago. If you want to keep Sunday then keep it.

 

[Diamond72]

That, except you be circumcised after the manner of Moses, you cannot be saved.

I must have rocked their world when the temple was tore down. Isaiah 1:11 was a lot more extreme: "Stop bringing meaningless offerings!... Take your evil deeds out of my sight; stop doing wrong. Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed."


The Apostle Paul indeed emphasized the importance of circumcising the heart rather than focusing solely on external rituals, such as physical circumcision. This theme is prevalent in several of his letters in the New Testament.

1. Romans 2:28-29 (NIV): "A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person's praise is not from other people, but from God."

In this passage, Paul emphasizes that true circumcision is a matter of the heart and the work of the Spirit, not merely a physical act. He emphasizes that being a part of God's people is based on inner transformation and faith rather than outward rituals.

 

[trophy33]

In all fainess a few came up with it way back in 17th century.

Who?

 

[ozso]

Who?

Seventh Day Baptists - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[trophy33]

Seventh Day Baptists - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Did they? I searched for "new moons", "millennium" or Isaiah 66 on your webpage and found nothing.

 

[ozso]

Did they? I searched for "new moons", "millennium" or Isaiah 66 on your webpage and found nothing.

I just meant they were into Christian seventh day sabbatarianism. What I was really saying is that even though it didn't really get rolling until the 19th century, it dates way back to the 17th century, which of course isn't really way back at all in the history of Christianity.

 

[ViaCrucis]

For Lutherans we often speak of the first and chief heresy of man, the arch-heresy, as theologia gloria: theology of glory. Namely: The belief that man can be good and right on the basis of himself and his efforts. This is the first heresy, not just in the problems facing the ancient Church in the time of the apostles concerning the Judaizers. It is a heresy that goes back to the Garden, where the serpent suggests that by eating of the fruit of the tree of good and evil we could "be as gods". For the desire for glory in ourselves is the desire to ascend to God. So we see this condemned in the Garden, condemned at the Tower of Babel, condemned in Isaiah, and condemned in the New Testament.

Man has life from God, and only from God, by His grace and His grace alone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[trophy33]

I just meant they were into Christian seventh day sabbatarianism. What I was really saying is that even though it didn't really get rolling until the 19th century, it dates way back to the 17th century, which of course isn't really way back at all in the history of Christianity.

I see. I thought you meant they read Isaiah 66 literally and as our future in supposed millennium.

 

[Studyman]

For Lutherans we often speak of the first and chief heresy of man, the arch-heresy, as theologia gloria: theology of glory. Namely: The belief that man can be good and right on the basis of himself and his efforts. This is the first heresy, not just in the problems facing the ancient Church in the time of the apostles concerning the Judaizers. It is a heresy that goes back to the Garden, where the serpent suggests that by eating of the fruit of the tree of good and evil we could "be as gods". For the desire for glory in ourselves is the desire to ascend to God. So we see this condemned in the Garden, condemned at the Tower of Babel, condemned in Isaiah, and condemned in the New Testament.

Man has life from God, and only from God, by His grace and His grace alone.

-CryptoLutheran

Wasn't the First Heresy, Eve listening to another voice in the garden, who quoted "some" of God's Word to convinced her that God lied to her? (You shall surely die") And that in the day she rejected God's Command, "Then" she would "be as gods"? What difference would it make if God's Command was not to Steal, or "you will die". Would the serpent not also quote some of God's word to convinced Eve that "she shall surely not die", because God knows that in the day you trust yourself over God, and disobey, "Then" your eyes will be open?

How can you say she "couldn't be good". And how was she on her own? She had a husband, she had God's Word. Did God not also give her an "Escape" from temptation?

1 Cor. 10: 13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Are you saying God placed her in a world with temptations, but not an escape?



Great topic.

 

[LW97Nils]

So then, in your religion, there is no need for Gentiles to Love our Neighbor as ourselves, as Moses teaches, or Love God with all our heart, as Moses teaches. That the only instruction for Gentiles is not to eat blood or eat animals which have not been dispatched according to the Law of Moses, or not to partake with images of God after the likeness of anything under heaven, according to the Law of Moses, or from fornication, which includes adultery and whoredoms, according to the Law of Moses.

And why do the Apostles then promote that the Gentiles continue to hear Moses on the Sabbath days, as they had already been doing since long before Acts 15?

What if Jesus was right about the Pharisees? And the "Yoke" they placed on the necks of the fathers, was NOT God's Law, but their own Commandments they called the Law of Moses?

What if God wanted them to hear Moses being read on the Sabbath Days, like Jesus instructed them to do before He was murdered?

I know you are convinced that Acts 15 should be separated from the rest of the entire Bible, and used as a standalone chapter to prove God placed a Yoke on the necks of HIS Own People. And you will not be persuaded otherwise, because Jesus told me.

Luke 16: 31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

But for those reading along, is it wise to ignore the Words of the Christ of the Bible, just to prop up popular religious philosophy?

Keep in mind. Moses' teachings were less stricts than Christ. Did Moses teach falsehood? Absolutely not, but he did not go into it as deep as Christ did.
Moses taught loving your brother.
Christ taught loving your brother AND your enemy.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The belief that man can be good and right on the basis of himself and his efforts.

Wasn't man created good? Thus goodness was an endowment of human nature in the beginning. Later, after the first sin, matters changed. Corruption started its work in human nature. ... anyway ...

The first church council was called to deal with the first heresy facing the church; a form of Ebionite teaching.

 

[Studyman]

Keep in mind. Moses' teachings were less stricts than Christ. Did Moses teach falsehood? Absolutely not, but he did not go into it as deep as Christ did.
Moses taught loving your brother.
Christ taught loving your brother AND your enemy.

I appreciate the reply. But I would like to show you a few examples of God's Love Jesus showed to His Enemies, according to Scriptures.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So, it seems that the "Truth" is God's Love that Jesus shared with His Friends and His Enemies.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That's pretty strict in my view. And this goes even to those "many" who call HIM Lord, Lord.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Again, this seems pretty strict to me. And why was Jesus/God so upset with the religions of the world God placed Him in?

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

And what happens to men who promote such a religion?

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, (and Lazarus) and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

I don't see much difference in strictness between Moses's teaching regarding religions men who call God their God, but transgress God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, and the Christ of the Bible's teaching for those who do the same.

Truly a great topic of discussion though. Thanks for the reply.

 

[LW97Nils]

I appreciate the reply. But I would like to show you a few examples of God's Love Jesus showed to His Enemies, according to Scriptures.

Luke 13: 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Matt. 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

So, it seems that the "Truth" is God's Love that Jesus shared with His Friends and His Enemies.

Matt. 13: 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

That's pretty strict in my view. And this goes even to those "many" who call HIM Lord, Lord.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Again, this seems pretty strict to me. And why was Jesus/God so upset with the religions of the world God placed Him in?

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

And what happens to men who promote such a religion?

Luke 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, (and Lazarus) and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

I don't see much difference in strictness between Moses's teaching regarding religions men who call God their God, but transgress God's Commandments by their own religious traditions, and the Christ of the Bible's teaching for those who do the same.

Truly a great topic of discussion though. Thanks for the reply.

Exactly. This has no relation to our discussion tho, brother. All only confirm what I say. Keep in mind, things did change. Christ did not. His law however was made stricter, jumping from the outward to the inward.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19-20

And then Christ goes on to say what the commandments are. Not corrections towards the OT law, but corrections towards what Moses had not been fully revealed thus far.

 

[Studyman]

Exactly. This has no relation to our discussion tho, brother. All only confirm what I say. Keep in mind, things did change. Christ did not. His law however was made stricter, jumping from the outward to the inward.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:19-20

And then Christ goes on to say what the commandments are. Not corrections towards the OT law, but corrections towards what Moses had not been fully revealed thus far.

This is the Leaven that Jesus said to beware of my friend. Moses revealed nothing but what God instructed Him to reveal. This is simply Biblical Fact. So what you are saying, is that Jesus corrected His Father. This is the same thing the Serpent did to Eve. It "corrected" the One True God. "Thou shall surely not die". This is what this world's religions preach, that the "Them of old time" in Matthew 5, was God and Moses. When the Biblical Truth is, that Jesus was "correcting" the Pharisees and their fathers, who, as the bible teaches, led people astray;

Jer. 23: 16 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. 17 They say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you.

Jer. 50: 6 My people hath been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray, they have turned them away on the mountains: they have gone from mountain to hill, they have forgotten their restingplace.

Mal. 2: 7 For the priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth: for he is the messenger of the LORD of hosts.

8 But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the LORD of hosts.

9Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been "partial in the law."

The Pharisees, like their fathers of old time, did the exact same thing.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Matt. 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Neither God, nor Moses engaged in this behavior, but the "them of Old Time" did.

The Law and Prophets teach to love your brother in your heart, not to lust after another woman in your heart, not to repay evil for evil etc. Everything Jesus mentioned in Matt. 5 was taught by the Law and Prophets, just not be the Priests and Pharisees that Jesus just rebuked, who were supposed to teach them.

Think about it. Why would Jesus rebuke a people for rejecting God's righteousness that you teach had not yet even been revealed?

Like me at one point, I too believe everything this world's religions, "who come in Christ's Name" promoted. But Jesus and Paul warned us about this very thing, and this teaching you speak of in your post, is widely taught, but it is Not True according to the Scriptures.

I hope you might take some time, not to seek justification for one of this world's religious philosophies, but to seek the Truth that God has provided us in His Inspired Word.

As Paul teaches;

2 Tim. 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[LW97Nils]

This is the Leaven that Jesus said to beware of my friend. Moses revealed nothing but what God instructed Him to reveal.

Exactly. See my previous commented where I quoted Matthew 19:8. Moses explained the carnal, Christ the spiritual meaning. Moses made no mistake, but he was not God. Jesus was and is God.

 

[LW97Nils]

The Law and Prophets teach to love your brother in your heart, not to lust after another woman in your heart, not to repay evil for evil etc.

Here is what it does not teach. To love your enemy also. Moses indeed knew to oppose lust. Most people who misinterpreted this do not.

 

[LW97Nils]

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Matt. 23: 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

To teach that Leviticus 11 adresses actual animals is an own tradition.

Barnabas - a disciple Paul himself adressed - explains this in Chapter 10 of his Epistle. The entire early church agrees.

Now, wherefore did Moses say, You shall not eat the swine, nor the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the raven, nor any fish which is not possessed of scales? He embraced three doctrines in his mind [in doing so]. Moreover, the Lord says to them in Deuteronomy, And I will establish my ordinances among this people. Deuteronomy 4:1 Is there then not a command of God they should not eat [these things]? There is, but Moses spoke with a spiritual reference. For this reason he named the swine, as much as to say, You shall not join yourself to men who resemble swine. For when they live in pleasure, they forget their Lord; but when they come to want, they acknowledge the Lord.

Does that make any sense?

 

[Studyman]

Here is what it does not teach. To love your enemy also. Moses indeed knew to oppose lust. Most people who misinterpreted this do not.

You have your love, and God has His. Here is how Jesus Loved the mainstream preachers of His Time, His enemies.

Matt. 23: 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

John 8: 44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Telling people the truth, is God's Love, regardless of whether they are friends or enemies.

The 10 commandments teach you how to Love God and Love your enemies.

It was the same for the Apostles.

Matt. 10: 13 And if the house be worthy, (What, a judgment?) let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Is this not loving the enemy, and doing good to others according to God and HIS Son?

How much truth have to told me about God? So far, you are only promoting the doctrines and philosophies of this world's religions. Why can't we ever talk about what is actually written?

 

[Studyman]

To teach that Leviticus 11 adresses actual animals is an own tradition.

But not man's tradition. Yes, it was God's instruction and Jesus' Tradition, and Paul's and certainly Peters. As well as Noah's and no doubt Abraham. And it is mine as well. But not the tradition of this world's religions, "who come in Christ's Name". It takes a lot of butts to fill the seats of so many religious businesses, without which they would not prosper. Constantine figured it out, just dilute God's Ways, with the practices of the heathen, and you can rule the world.

It's a great marketing strategy, and the Catholic and her daughters have created some of the wealthiest religious businesses and corporations that ever existed on this planet.

But "being Christ Like", which is what the Name "Christian" used to mean, would not entail rejecting God's Commandments "that ye may keep your own tradition.", in my view.

Barnabas - a disciple Paul himself adressed - explains this in Chapter 10 of his Epistle. The entire early church agrees.

For every theologian who says it was the same Barnabas, there is another who teaches it is not. And if it was, he must have been very old, because this was written after the fall of the Temple in 70 AD.

You are free to adopt the religious philosophies of anyone you choose. I know the flesh wants what it wants, and if man can't find justification from Jesus or Moses, they will just keep looking until they find a writer who does.

And the Church that came out of Pentecost, would never eat Swine's flesh any more than they would eat blood. The reason for this is not because they were an enemy of God but had become "Servants of His Righteousness". I'm ok with that.

Now, wherefore did Moses say, You shall not eat the swine, nor the eagle, nor the hawk, nor the raven, nor any fish which is not possessed of scales? He embraced three doctrines in his mind [in doing so]. Moreover, the Lord says to them in Deuteronomy, And I will establish my ordinances among this people. Deuteronomy 4:1 Is there then not a command of God they should not eat [these things]? There is, but Moses spoke with a spiritual reference. For this reason he named the swine, as much as to say, You shall not join yourself to men who resemble swine.

What does that even mean, "to resemble swine? To be a Fat man? A bald men? What made the Swine unclean? Was it made "unclean of itself"? But you don't answer questions.

For me it's much simpler. What do I drink? What shall I eat? With what religion shall I wrap myself in? Since the Jesus of the Bible is my Redeemer, I will listen to Him.

Matt. 6: 31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? 32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.

33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Simple, even a child can understand. It's right there in the Oracles of God we all have in our own homes.

For when they live in pleasure, they forget their Lord; but when they come to want, they acknowledge the Lord.

Does that make any sense?

What is forgetting the Lord? Isn't that the old man, "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:?

Don't you find it troubling that you had to reject the teaching of Moses, and the Righteousness of Jesus, and Noah and all who understood and honored God in HIS Definition of clean and unclean, and seek justification through some obscure writings from an Author nobody know for sure who he is.

For me it's real simple. I won't eat maggots, or slugs or Swine's flesh for the same reason Jesus and the faithful didn't partake. God said they were not clean for consumption. And Paul confirms this in acts 15 when he told the New Gentiles Converts to abstain from their tradition of eating meats that were "unclean" for them, according to Moses.

You are free to yield yourself a servant to obey anyone you want. It might not even matter. But even though it's the least of God's commandments, I have come to understand why God created it for me in this wickedest of times, by reason of use. And I am Grateful for His instruction that HE made "for my sakes no doubt".

I only argue because men use the Scriptures to justify their lawlessness. To do this, they must misrepresent them. For this reason I post a perspective that implies God actually knows what HE is doing. Not a very popular perspective in this world God placed me in.

 

[LW97Nils]

But not man's tradition. Yes, it was God's instruction and Jesus' Tradition, and Paul's and certainly Peters. As well as Noah's and no doubt Abraham. And it is mine as well. But not the tradition of this world's religions, "who come in Christ's Name". It takes a lot of butts to fill the seats of so many religious businesses, without which they would not prosper. Constantine figured it out, just dilute God's Ways, with the practices of the heathen, and you can rule the world.

It's a great marketing strategy, and the Catholic and her daughters have created some of the wealthiest religious businesses and corporations that ever existed on this planet.

But "being Christ Like", which is what the Name "Christian" used to mean, would not entail rejecting God's Commandments "that ye may keep your own tradition.", in my view.

Which is a good point. I see it the same way Barnabas did. While the Epistle of Barnabas is not inspired, we can still learn from it and suggest he was the same Barnabas adressed in Acts 11.