How Does One Put A Pre-Trib Rapture Before “The Last Day”?

[WilliamK76]

Been asking them this for years. Not to mention:
before the "falling away" (Paul said do not be deceived about this timing!)
before "the man of sin" emerges, (Paul said do not be deceived about this timing!)
before the "last trump," (the last of a series of trumps)
before the "great tribulation of those days," (Jesus said it would be immediately after)
and before the "first resurrection" found at the end of the book of Revelation. (there could not be any general resurrections before the first)
An individual who has never heard of this theory would never find it in scripture. As with anything else, if you go into the scripture with a mind to find something, you will find it. But it simply is not there without a lot of twisting, stretching, taking verses out of context, and ignoring the plain and simple text found from cover to cover.

Nice post The 7 year tribulation is false too. Jesus already fulfilled the first 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week. He’s the one who caused the sacrificial system of the old covenant to cease. And He made their temple desolate for the past nearly 2000 years. His ministry lasted 3.5 years and He confirmed “the covenant” with many he was cut off in the midst of the week. There remains 3.5 years left to be fulfilled.

 

[Diamond72]

An individual who has never heard of this theory would never find it in scripture.

Jesus was talking about two different events at the same time. When the temple would be destroyed which turned out to be 70 ad. Then the end of the church age. People were very convinced that the church age would end around the year 2,000 starting 2,000 years from the birth of Jesus in 1996. Nothing happened and it was just life as usual. Soon we are going to have the 2,000 year university of the church. No one seems to be talking about that.

The whole point of the rapture is that in 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Amen. And it’s so clear that the antiChrist is revealed before the rapture.

2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Those who make the “falling away first” the rapture absolutely butcher this scripture to make their piece meal theology fit lol. No, they won’t be falling away up into the air because the rapture is happening, but falling away from the faith because they realize that they are going to have to suffer for Christ.

How can “falling away” be synonymous with “gathering together unto him”?

Yes, to read it that way would mean the "rapture" could not happen until the rapture happens.

 

[DavidPT]

The last day is the seventh day. This world is a seven thousand year plan in God’s economy.

What day is it when satan's little season begins since that is after the last day if the 7th day is the last day? Also keeping in mind that the great white throne judgment is at the end of satan's little season. Plus, we need to factor the following in as well.

John 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

What day is this meaning, the last day when those that reject Him shall be judged by Him?


Basically then, per Premil, we have the following.

A) Six 1000 year days pertaining to this present age(Is at the end of this being when the very last day occurs, thus no more days that follow?)

B) One 1000 year day pertaining to the age following this present age(Or is at the end of this being when the very last day occurs, thus no more days that follow?)

C) satan's little season at the end of B) (Or is at the end of this being when the very last day occurs, thus no more days that follow?)

D) The great white throne judgment at the end of C) (Or is at the end of this being when the very last day occurs, thus no more days that follow?)

As to the last day per John 12:48, what is that being applied to then? A), B), C), or D)?

 

[Bobber]

Nice post The 7 year tribulation is false too. Jesus already fulfilled the first 3.5 years of Daniels 70th week. He’s the one who caused the sacrificial system of the old covenant to cease. And He made their temple desolate for the past nearly 2000 years. His ministry lasted 3.5 years and He confirmed “the covenant” with many he was cut off in the midst of the week. There remains 3.5 years left to be fulfilled.

And when would that take place? Revelations talks about a 3 1/2 years period. Are you saying that's it?

 

[eleos1954]

We know from 1 Thess. that the rapture takes place almost simultaneously when Jesus raises His physically dead believers up out of their graves. All those who are in their graves are actually caught up first, then those who are still alive in their physical bodies at that time, and on that day get caught up right after them.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:


1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

So we can clearly see that the rapture takes place on the day of the resurrection of all His saints who have died(as far as their physical existence is concerned) in Him.

So when did Jesus tell us several times that He is going to “raise the dead”?

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Jhn 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.


Jhn 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Jhn 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.


Wow, this must be too simple for a lot of people to understand?

It is the teaching of an immortal soul that leads people into other ideas.

We are mortal and do not become immortal until Jesus returns.

 

[WilliamK76]

And when would that take place? Revelations talks about a 3 1/2 years period. Are you saying that's it?

Shortly after the man of sin is revealed.. the count down of the 3 1/2 years will most likely begin when he commits the abomination of desolation. Which is resurrecting the Old Testament sacrificial system and it’s temple in Jerusalem.. the very thing the Son of God came to earth to make desolate. Any religion that in the course of time would bring about the crucifixion of the very God who created it is an abomination, therefore God having fulfilled it, made it desolate and it ceased to exist. That’s why when Satan resurrects it in theses last days, the Jews will believe that he is God, because in their minds only God could bring back to life their religious system and temple worship that’s been dead and desolate for 2000 years.

 

[Aaron112]

Wow, this must be too simple for a lot of people to understand?

Did not notice if the time period God Refers to as The Last Day
is indicated in the thread ?

 

[WilliamK76]

What day is it when satan's little season begins since that is after the last day if the 7th day is the last day? Also keeping in mind that the great white throne judgment is at the end of satan's little season. Plus, we need to factor the following in as well.

One can only imagine what a “little season” is in the mind of God lol. What if it’s another 7 thousand year cycle of testings for the people on the earth that begins all over again? Anyways the 8th day is eternity with God and in God for all those who are in Christ idk, these can only be speculations at this point lol

 

[WilliamK76]

Did not notice if the time period God Refers to as The Last Day
is indicated in the thread ?

There’s all kinds of different ideas floating around in this thread lol. Just go through it if you like, and see which one’s you agree with. I’m not dogmatic on any of my views. I have my own views like everyone else, but try to keep an open mind when it comes to things like prophecy.

God bless

 

[WilliamK76]

Hi William,

One of the important things we need to do when reading God`s word, or the newspaper etc is to find out `who is talking to whom. ` All your John scriptures reveal that Jesus was talking to the Jews regarding their resurrection - the last day.

The Body of Christ was NOT revealed at that time as Jesus hadn`t died or been resurrected or ascended. The Body of Christ is a different group than the Jews and will be caught away and go to their home in glory. This revelation was NOT revealed earlier.

Note: when you read a newspaper or on line you don`t take what is given to other people as for yourself. We apply the same rules of reading to how we read God`s word - who is God talking to.

We can learn lessons on what God is doing but we don`t take what is said to others as to ourselves.

Hi, I understand all these arguments for a pretrib rapture.. I use to believe in a pretrib, but I’m sorry, it’s just not the truth in my opinion. We can thank Scofield, and Darby for all the confusion and deception in the body of Christ over these things. I pray that you have a blessed day though, God bless

 

[SavedByGrace3]

The idea has been in the background for years.
"Does it really matter when or even if a "rapture" occurs?"


Yes, it does. It does not "make it or break it" concerning our salvation. You can be wrong on this and still be saved. But it does matter when it comes to both your doctrinal and spiritual maturity.
Consider Heb 6:1-3

Hebrews 6:
1 KJV Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.

Here, the author lists the 6 "Elementary," "foundational," "milk," "first principles of the oracles of God."
This is only the baby food.

1. repentance from dead works,
2. faith toward God,
3. the doctrine of baptisms
4. laying on of hands,
5. resurrection of the dead,
6. eternal judgment.

He calls us to proceed from these "baby food" doctrines" to mature "meat" doctrines. (Context suggests that the Priesthood would be part of the mature "meat" doctrines.)
But the point is, these are called baby food, which is intended for babies. Among the babyfood is teaching about "the resurrection of the dead." Which would include the resurrection of living and sleeping believers.

But the most important point with regard to our discussion is verse 3.

"And this we will do if God permit."

Before going on to the "mature, meat" doctrines, we must be well versed in the "elementary, baby doctrines." If you are not well versed in these baby doctrines, God may not allow you to proceed! So, misunderstanding this "rapture" theory may actually prevent you from going on to the mature meat doctrine and greater spiritual maturity.

Why? Because if you are stuck in the milk diet, then heavy meat will cause you to choke. Paul even warns us specifically not to be deceived about the timing of this event. He suggests holding to a "pre-falling away," "pre-man of sin," and "pre-trib rapture" view may result in harm to believers.

2 Thessalonians 2:
2 KJV That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

So, for people who want to mature both in the word and spiritually, it does matter what you believe.

 

[Divide]

No, on the last day before the millennium begins.

So you are saying that even the Bride of Christ will go through the great tribulation and experience the wrath of God?

One other thing. ...last day before the millenium begins...so that would mean that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is here on earth right at the end of WW III????!!

 

[Divide]

God didn't save Noah and his family after the flood. He saved them before the flood.

Types & shadows.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

So you are saying that even the Bride of Christ will go through the great tribulation and experience the wrath of God?

One other thing. ...last day before the millenium begins...so that would mean that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is here on earth right at the end of WW III????!!

Well, Jesus did say regarding the great tribulation of those days and the times leading up to and including the battle of Armageddon:

Matthew 24:13 KJV But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
It would be tough enduring all that. Renouncing Christ would seem to be the "easy" way out of the persecution of the Antichrist. But stand fast.

 

[WilliamK76]

So you are saying that even the Bride of Christ will go through the great tribulation and experience the wrath of God?

One other thing. ...last day before the millenium begins...so that would mean that the Marriage Supper of the Lamb is here on earth right at the end of WW III????!!

The wrath of God is eternal suffering after death. Not the temporary experience in the form and way physical death comes to a person. Good and bad people a like die in horrific disasters all the time, every day.

 

[Divide]

Where most people mistake that the rapture is on the very last day is in Matthew 24 and there is talk in that chapter about both the rapture day and the last day. If you spoke Greek then you would catch the change of subject but if you don't know Greek it's easy to miss.

What about all those verses about we will not go through the wrath of God? (1 Thessalonians 5:9 Revelation 3:10)

Revelation 3:10
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.../KJV

The hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world to try them...That's talking about the Great Tribulation!

The Rapture is clearly before the Tribulation. Those raptured will be in Heaven having a party & a BBQ at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb while great tribulation is upon the earth. And it is our last day as humans because we will be transformed at the rapture and receive our spiritual body's at that time. And when Jesus returns after the tribulation, He brings all of His Saints with Him. Then we go into the 1000 year Millenium (as spiritual beings) and live on earth for 1000 years more.

I think this must be when the meek inherit the earth?

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God didn't save Noah and his family after the flood. He saved them before the flood.

Types & shadows.

1 Peter 3:20 RV which aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:

Please note they were still on the earth smack dab in the middle of the flood. They went "through" the flood (water) and were not taken off the planet.

 

[Divide]

Well, Jesus did say regarding the great tribulation of those days and the times leading up to and including the battle of Armageddon:

Matthew 24:13 KJV But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
It would be tough enduring all that. Renouncing Christ would seem to be the "easy" way out of the persecution of the Antichrist. But stand fast.

The easy way out? Would Jesus allow HIS Bride to take the easy way out? Remember your own wedding day? Would you let your Bride take the easy way out? I would my Bride!! Jesus would too.

Noah got to take the easy way out. Lot got to take the easy way out. Enoch and Elijah both took the easy way out. So why wouldn't Yeshua allow HIS Bride to take the easy way out.

I know! Read this:

Revelation 19:7
7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.../KJV

I ask, praytell, what does the Bride make herself ready for?

This speaks of marriage and not of war or Armegeddon or the Anti-Christ. Jesus comes once for His Wife to snatch her out and save her from God's wrath. And then we go to Heaven. The Marriage of the Lamb is in Heaven, where He went to prepare...a place for us. We wont be BBQ'ing hotdogs by a bombed out city.

 

[WilliamK76]

God didn't save Noah and his family after the flood. He saved them before the flood.

Types & shadows.

Yeah, 8 people went up in Noah’s ark. How many people do you reckon will still be alive and remain by the end of the tribulation when the rapture happens? Not very many.. types ands shadows lol. People just assume that the rapture is a world wide global event. Not so, by the end of the tribulation it will be a very localized event because very few people will still be alive. If God had not cut those days short no flesh would survive.