The little horn in Daniel 8 poll

[David Kent]

what I'm saying is that the future final Antichrist will fulfill all of Daniel 7, 8, 9 and 11 all as one person, rather than seeing history play out and saying "this fits here" and "this fits there" when the final antichrist comes, the perfect fulfillment, it will just be "this fits"
the bible does not shy away from history repeating itself, in fact biblically there are many "types" of Antichrist beginning with Nimrod, if not all the way back to Cain.
But there is a specific one being referred to repeatedly in scripture who all types (including future types that would come after the bible was completed) are predecessors to, including AE4, including Caesar, including Mohammad. including Hitler.
the final antichrist will be like Nimrod, like Pharaoh, like Antiochus, like Mohammad, and like Hitler.

like, yes, there was a Greek empire that took over the Persian empire, I agree with that, what I'm saying is there will be another one. an empire from that region of Western Turkey/Greece from the area that biblically the Javanites were, will attack Iran, then be split up, and a little horn will come from the Northern state of the 4 splintered states.

Logically speaking, there's rationale to it even in modern times. Erdogan wants to reestablish the Ottoman Empire, they're Sunni, Iran is Shia.
Hypothetical scenario, Iran declares they have the 12th Imam, and begins to make campaigns in Afghanistan, and Iraq and other neighboring countries, conquering under the black flag of Khorasan (an Islamic prophecy about the Mahdi, the reason why ISIS used the black flag). Erdogan declares the revival of the Ottoman Empire, and himself as the Caliph. You now have a Shi'a, and Sunni leaders declaring themselves Caliphs, one they proclaim to be the Mahdi. Do you think the Sunni Erdogan, is going to accept a Shi'a Mahdi? No he'd likely attack Iran, and Turkey is much stronger than Iran militarily.
In this scenario, Erdogan is the first king of a newly declared Empire.
He would then be killed, as the rest of the world won't just allow the Ottoman Empire coming back.. and divide it up. It can go on from there.
Obviously that's a hypothetical, not saying it will happen, but something like it could happen, and something like it will happen, not necessarily with those players but those regions of the world.

There is no antichrist in. Daniel 9

 

[Jamdoc]

There is no antichrist in. Daniel 9

the 70th week.

 

[Douggg]

There is no antichrist in. Daniel 9

David, who is this verse referring to.... Jesus, right ? Jesus is the rightful King of Israel. The "Anti" (instead of, against, Jesus) christ is the forthcoming King of Israel, the Jews will erroneously believe is their messiah for a while.

That is who will confirm the Mt Sinai covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27.

Mark 15:32

32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

 

[David Kent]

the 70th week.

Show me where it says Antichrist is the 70th week.

 

[David Kent]

David, who is this verse referring to.... Jesus, right ? Jesus is the rightful King of Israel. The "Anti" (instead of, against, Jesus) christ is the forthcoming King of Israel, the Jews will erroneously believe is their messiah for a while.



That is who will confirm the Mt Sinai covenant for 7 years in Daniel 9:27.



Mark 15:32



32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

Jesus came as the king of the Jews and they rejected him.

He confirmed the covenant in his blood at the last supper

 

[David Kent]

Yes the little horn of Daniel 7 is the Antichrist, What is his mission? To wear out the saints of the most high.
Daniel 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

We find it fulfilled in Revelation when the papal Antichrist did just that.
Revelation 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

His mission is not primarily Jews but believers in Christ, but Jews are included as well.

 

[Douggg]

Jesus came as the king of the Jews and they rejected him.

The king of the Jews at that time implied "the" messiah, the promised great King of Israel descended from king David.

John 12:

12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt. [Zechariah 9:9]


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Zechariah 9:9

9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

daughter of Zion, daughter of Jerusalem - refers to the Jews in Jerusalem.

The king of the Jews in fulfillment of that verse means the messiah, King of Israel, descendant of David - which is why his followers in John 12:13 hailed Jesus as the King of Israel, who cometh in the name of the Lord - i.e. the person that God had promised.

The Antichrist will be the one that Jesus said the Jews would accept instead of him, who is come in his own name - i.e. someone God did not send to be their king. John 5:43.

 

[Jamdoc]

Show me where it says Antichrist is the 70th week.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

That is referring to the Abomination of Desolation. Who sets up the Abomination of Desolation?

 

[David Kent]

Who destroyed the temple? The Romans. The Roman troops destroyed the temple and desolated Jerusalem.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

 

[Jamdoc]

Who destroyed the temple? The Romans. The Roman troops destroyed the temple and desolated Jerusalem.

Luke 21:20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Daniel 9:27 is not a reference to AD70, the verse prior to it does have a reference to it though

Daniel 9

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:

First this is about the crucifixion I'm sure we'll both agree

and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

That's AD70, so it comes before the 70th week but after the crucifixion in the 69th week.

27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This is about the Abomination of Desolation, taking place in the 70th week.

There are 2 princes, Messiah, and Anti-messiah. 1 is the true, the other is the imitation.

 

[David Kent]

Daniel 9:27 is not a reference to AD70, the verse prior to it does have a reference to it though

Daniel 9

First this is about the crucifixion I'm sure we'll both agree

That's AD70, so it comes before the 70th week but after the crucifixion in the 69th week.


This is about the Abomination of Desolation, taking place in the 70th week.

There are 2 princes, Messiah, and Anti-messiah. 1 is the true, the other is the imitation.

Jesus' ministry began when he was baptised, he was cut off in the middle of the week, the 70th week. The people of the prince who was to come, the Romans, the people of the prince not the prince destroyed the sanctuary. The prince is not the subject, but his people are. Therefore "27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease," refers back to Messiah, the last person mentioned, who was a minister to the circumcised to confirm the promise the covenant obviously, made to the fathers. Romans 15:8

 

[David Kent]

Daniel 9:27 is not a reference to AD70, the verse prior to it does have a reference to it though

Daniel 9

First this is about the crucifixion I'm sure we'll both agree

That's AD70, so it comes before the 70th week but after the crucifixion in the 69th week.


This is about the Abomination of Desolation, taking place in the 70th week.

There are 2 princes, Messiah, and Anti-messiah. 1 is the true, the other is the imitation.

I am sure you can read and understand. So read carefully. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

After 62 weeks. That is in the 70th week. Jesus came and was announced by John and a voice from heaven at his Baptism 3½ years later, in the midst of the prophetic week and a literal week, Wednesday, he was cut off.

 

[Jamdoc]

Jesus' ministry began when he was baptised, he was cut off in the middle of the week, the 70th week. The people of the prince who was to come, the Romans, the people of the prince not the prince destroyed the sanctuary. The prince is not the subject, but his people are. Therefore "27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease," refers back to Messiah, the last person mentioned, who was a minister to the circumcised to confirm the promise the covenant obviously, made to the fathers. Romans 15:8

He was cut off before any covenant was confirmed for a week, so no.

not to mention, the 70th week is the last week, the purposes of the 70 weeks:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

We still have sin and transgression, and if you believe prophecy is sealed up, then you do not belong in the Eschatology forums (full preterists are to go to controversial Christian theology)

Oh and finally, in the text of Daniel 9:26 it describes the destruction of Jerusalem, THEN the covenant is confirmed for 1 week.

 

[Jamdoc]

I am sure you can read and understand. So read carefully. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself

After 62 weeks. That is in the 70th week. Jesus came and was announced by John and a voice from heaven at his Baptism 3½ years later, in the midst of the prophetic week and a literal week, Wednesday, he was cut off.

Not how Israelites reckon dates. They count the day they are on currently. IE it was not AFTER 69 weeks and thus the 70th week, but DURING the 69th week.

Just like they count the day that Jesus was crucified as day 1 of the 3 days before the resurrection, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, where in our western reckoning we'd expect if Jesus was crucified on Friday then He would be resurrected after 3 days.... on Monday. There was certainly not 72 hours between Jesus' death and resurrection. He died in the middle of the day on Friday, and was resurrected on Sunday morning, so in reality only 1 of those days was a full 24 hours

 

[David Kent]

He was cut off before any covenant was confirmed for a week, so no.

not to mention, the 70th week is the last week, the purposes of the 70 weeks:



We still have sin and transgression, and if you believe prophecy is sealed up, then you do not belong in the Eschatology forums (full preterists are to go to controversial Christian theology)

Oh and finally, in the text of Daniel 9:26 it describes the destruction of Jerusalem, THEN the covenant is confirmed for 1 week.

The transgression was finished or as Jesus said in Matthew 23, the Jews filled up the measure of their fathers who had killed the prophets, but killing Him.

The Law and prophets were till John. The prophecy concerning Messiah.

 

[David Kent]

Not how Israelites reckon dates. They count the day they are on currently. IE it was not AFTER 69 weeks and thus the 70th week, but DURING the 69th week.

Just like they count the day that Jesus was crucified as day 1 of the 3 days before the resurrection, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, where in our western reckoning we'd expect if Jesus was crucified on Friday then He would be resurrected after 3 days.... on Monday. There was certainly not 72 hours between Jesus' death and resurrection. He died in the middle of the day on Friday, and was resurrected on Sunday morning, so in reality only 1 of those days was a full 24 hours

So people keep saying but they are not reading.

Firstly the women were going to the tomb towards the end of the sabbath. They got there when it was yet dark. Early on the 1st day, our Saturday evening. He rose at the same time he was put in the tomb, 3 days and 3 nights later.

You take "In three days" as if that is the only one.

But we have 4 different descriptions.
In three days,
On the third day,
Three days and three nights.
After 3 days:
Mark 8:31And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
Matthew 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

As these all refer to the same time they must all fit together and the only one which the other 3 fit into is thre days and three nights.

 

[Jamdoc]

The transgression was finished or as Jesus said in Matthew 23, the Jews filled up the measure of their fathers who had killed the prophets, but killing Him.

The Law and prophets were till John. The prophecy concerning Messiah.

there's still sin, and there's still prophecy to be fulfilled.

 

[David Kent]

there's still sin, and there's still prophecy to be fulfilled.

There is still sin but there is now forgiveness of sin through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jesus brought an end to sin.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

 

[Jamdoc]

There is still sin but there is now forgiveness of sin through the death and resurrection of Jesus. Jesus brought an end to sin.

1 Corinthians 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.

Forgiving sin is not the same as ending sin.
This current world is an eyesore that needs to be destroyed, it's an affront to a Holy God, an offense.
If this current sin rotten world is the fulfillment of the 70 weeks, then God is a disappointment and really doesn't care about ongoing sin that much.