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Excluding Farmer's Market Vendor for Refusing to Host Same-Sex Weddings

rjs330

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Just like we haven't seen any scripture saying "hey people, stop it with all the baking cakes for gay people".

But if you want to find people torturing scripture to get to agree with their preconceptions about social issues, take a look at the court cases leading up to Loving v. Virginia. There's a lot of parallels to be drawn to the current target of that sort of approach.

You are doing it again. Man will you guys ever stop? Why do you all just keep on spreading disinformation? No one has actually given me an answer to that. They just keep making things up. Just like you.

When you stop maybe we can actually have a decent conversation.

Still no evidence that people used scripture to state a black couple getting married is sinful? No? Didn't think so.

Now if you are really looking for scriptures concerning homosexuality and sin specifically, well those have been provided to you many times.

Yet you haven't provided any regarding black relationships.
 
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rjs330

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Do you really want protection of religious expression subject to polling? We could start by looking at polls of public support for gay marriage, and if certain believers' views aren't in the majority, do away with the idea that they have any sort of legal standing to use their professed beliefs to ignore anti-discrimination laws.

Seem fair? Or is this idea of using public opinion to figure out which religious view deserve protection yet another one of those rationalizations for beating up on minorities that wasn't thought through to its natural conclusion? Seem to be a lot of them - excuses which seem to work in the moment if you ignore that they might apply in situations other than the very specific ones they're dreamed up to justify.
Hey you're the one making the claims of what Christians believe. I'm asking you to prove it.
 
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ozso

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You are doing it again. Man will you guys ever stop? Why do you all just keep on spreading disinformation? No one has actually given me an answer to that. They just keep making things up. Just like you.

When you stop maybe we can actually have a decent conversation.

Still no evidence that people used scripture to state a black couple getting married is sinful? No? Didn't think so.

Now if you are really looking for scriptures concerning homosexuality and sin specifically, well those have been provided to you many times.

Yet you haven't provided any regarding black relationships.
The idea as I understand it is that since "God separated the races at the Tower of Babel" based on Genesis 11:1-8, that means he doesn't want interracial marriages. Which is pure poppycock of course.
 
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rjs330

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Do you really want protection of religious expression subject to polling? We could start by looking at polls of public support for gay marriage, and if certain believers' views aren't in the majority, do away with the idea that they have any sort of legal standing to use their professed beliefs to ignore anti-discrimination laws.

Seem fair? Or is this idea of using public opinion to figure out which religious view deserve protection yet another one of those rationalizations for beating up on minorities that wasn't thought through to its natural conclusion? Seem to be a lot of them - excuses which seem to work in the moment if you ignore that they might apply in situations other than the very specific ones they're dreamed up to justify.
Hey you're the one making the claims of what Christians believe and the scriptural support they used. I'm asking you to prove it.
 
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RileyG

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You are doing it again. Man will you guys ever stop? Why do you all just keep on spreading disinformation? No one has actually given me an answer to that. They just keep making things up. Just like you.

When you stop maybe we can actually have a decent conversation.

Still no evidence that people used scripture to state a black couple getting married is sinful? No? Didn't think so.

Now if you are really looking for scriptures concerning homosexuality and sin specifically, well those have been provided to you many times.

Yet you haven't provided any regarding black relationships.
Interracial relationships aren't sinful, homosexual relationships are. From a Christian perspective, people cannot support sin for any reason. It doesn't matter what is politically correct or not. Period.
 
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RileyG

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One would think that agreeing the reasoning behind saying the two are different was invalid would lead to a post proposing yet another reason why the two are different, or perhaps abandoning the idea.

Instead, we get one agreeing the reasoning behind saying the two are different is invalid while reasserting that they are different.

Not sure about anyone else, but that doesn't seem particularly convincing.
Someone's race and someone's chosen sinful lifestyle is not the same.
 
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KCfromNC

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Why do you all just keep on spreading disinformation? No one has actually given me an answer to that. They just keep making things up. Just like you.

Hey look, ignoring what I wrote and making empty accusations instead. It's just a transparent attempt to try and make the conversation about me personally instead of addressing the content of my posts. No one's going to fall for it.

I understand why there's a need to do this given how strong the comparisons are between racial discrimination and the current fad of discriminating against gay people. But that doesn't make it any less obvious of a concession that there's nothing of substance that can be said to dispute what I wrote.

Still no evidence that people used scripture to state a black couple getting married is sinful?
It's right where I said it was when it was ignored in my previous post


On January 6, 1959, the Lovings pleaded guilty to the charge, and were sentenced to one year in jail; however, the trial judge suspended the sentence for a period of 25 years on the condition that the Lovings leave the State and not return to Virginia together for 25 years. He stated in an opinion that:
"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
Or more generally, this sort of thing that the church found a need to renounce : On Renouncing The Doctrine Of The “curse Of Ham” As A Justification For Racism - SBC.net
 
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KCfromNC

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Someone's race and someone's chosen sinful lifestyle is not the same.
This isn't about someone's lifestyle, it is about gender-based discrimination.

But in any case no one has claimed they are identical. Just that there are a whole lot of parallels between previous justifications for discriminating based on race and current attempts by conservatives to discriminate against gay people. And how the arguments thrown out for the latter can be applied equally to justify the former.

In response, we get empty assertions that nuh-huh, no it isn't, with any attempts to explain why falling apart when even the slightest bit of thought is given to them.

I get it, these comparisons make the attempts to discriminate against gay people look really bad. But there's nothing forcing people to do this, they are freely choosing to make this lifestyle choice to discriminate against people who have done nothing to harm them. That kind of lifestyle is naturally going to reflect badly on them and those who share similar beliefs. Oh well, consequences are to be expected from anti-social behavior.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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The idea as I understand it is that since "God separated the races at the Tower of Babel" based on Genesis 11:1-8, that means he doesn't want interracial marriages. Which is pure poppycock of course.
You believing that the biblical arguments against miscegenation are poppycock is meaningless - plenty of Christians believe that the biblical arguments against gay marriage are poppycock too. In both cases though, there are Christians who do agree with those biblical arguments, and those biblical arguments are remarkably similar.
Interracial relationships aren't sinful, homosexual relationships are. From a Christian perspective, people cannot support sin for any reason. It doesn't matter what is politically correct or not. Period.
There are Christians who believe that interracial relationships are sinful too. Do you agree that they should not support what they see as sin?

Also, you might be interested to know that the majority of Christians in the US actually support gay marriage. White evangelicals are the only denomination that does not:
 
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RileyG

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You believing that the biblical arguments against miscegenation are poppycock is meaningless - plenty of Christians believe that the biblical arguments against gay marriage are poppycock too. In both cases though, there are Christians who do agree with those biblical arguments, and those biblical arguments are remarkably similar.

There are Christians who believe that interracial relationships are sinful too. Do you agree that they should not support what they see as sin?

Also, you might be interested to know that the majority of Christians in the US actually support gay marriage. White evangelicals are the only denomination that does not:
Just because a majority Christians supports gay marriage, doesn't mean all Christians do. They still have a right to say no.
 
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RileyG

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This isn't about someone's lifestyle, it is about gender-based discrimination.

But in any case no one has claimed they are identical. Just that there are a whole lot of parallels between previous justifications for discriminating based on race and current attempts by conservatives to discriminate against gay people. And how the arguments thrown out for the latter can be applied equally to justify the former.

In response, we get empty assertions that nuh-huh, no it isn't, with any attempts to explain why falling apart when even the slightest bit of thought is given to them.

I get it, these comparisons make the attempts to discriminate against gay people look really bad. But there's nothing forcing people to do this, they are freely choosing to make this lifestyle choice to discriminate against people who have done nothing to harm them. That kind of lifestyle is naturally going to reflect badly on them and those who share similar beliefs. Oh well, consequences are to be expected from anti-social behavior.
There is no "gender-based discrimination" occurring. Businesses have a right to choose who they associate with. They have a right to say no to a same-sex wedding if it goes against their sincerely held religious beliefs.
 
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rjs330

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Hey look, ignoring what I wrote and making empty accusations instead. It's just a transparent attempt to try and make the conversation about me personally instead of addressing the content of my posts. No one's going to fall for it.

I understand why there's a need to do this given how strong the comparisons are between racial discrimination and the current fad of discriminating against gay people. But that doesn't make it any less obvious of a concession that there's nothing of substance that can be said to dispute what I wrote.


It's right where I said it was when it was ignored in my previous post


On January 6, 1959, the Lovings pleaded guilty to the charge, and were sentenced to one year in jail; however, the trial judge suspended the sentence for a period of 25 years on the condition that the Lovings leave the State and not return to Virginia together for 25 years. He stated in an opinion that:
"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And, but for the interference with his arrangement, there would be no cause for such marriage. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix."
Or more generally, this sort of thing that the church found a need to renounce : On Renouncing The Doctrine Of The “curse Of Ham” As A Justification For Racism - SBC.net
Dude you are talking 1967. And the quote you gave is exactly what I've been telling you. He didn't provide anything from any verses in the bible saying blacks shouldn't marry whites. He gave his opinion on the matter in 1967.

You still haven't provided a single piece of evidence that the church in your article quoted scriptures in order to deny marrying a black couple.

And you are still spreading misinformation. And that's being generous to you. When you said "hey people stop making cakes for gay people". You are spreading disinformation at best or now it's bordering on flat out lying about our position.

And in your last article the SBC flat out stated that the churches were using false doctrine to justify racist acts. Here's the scripture that was used a LONG time ago.

When Noach awoke from his wine, he knew what his youngest son had done to him. He said, “Cursed be Kena‘an; he will be a servant of servants to his brothers.” Then he said, “Blessed be , the God of Shem; Kena‘an will be their servant. May God enlarge Yefet; he will live in the tents of Shem, but Kena‘an will be their servant.”
Bible Gateway passage: Genesis 9:24, Genesis 9:25, Genesis 9:26, Genesis 9:27 - Complete Jewish Bible

Now tell me where in that scripture does it say anything about black people?

The church article you posted didn't even quote a scripture. And no one said not to bake cakes for gay people.
 
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rjs330

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I can't help but notice the entire content of my post is ignored yet again. There seems to be a pattern forming here.
Nope you still haven't proven what Christians believe. All you got is something that happened 50 years ago. It's like going back to Jim Crow and claiming people still have Jim Crow laws.
 
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Aaron112

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Hey look, ignoring what I wrote and making empty accusations instead. It's just a transparent attempt to try and make the conversation about me personally instead of addressing the content of my posts. No one's going to fall for it.

I understand why there's a need to do this given how strong the comparisons are between racial discrimination and the current fad of discriminating against gay people. But that doesn't make it any less obvious of a concession that there's nothing of substance that can be said to dispute what I wrote.
I saw nothing of your posts or the other's posts.
Only it is useless to carry on regardless of who is right or wrong, if anybody - all might be wrong, and then it is still pointless to carry on...
and if someone on one side cannot acknowledge their own errors, so they blame the opposition even if the opposition is right, then it is likewise pointless....
This happens on many threads, and recent posts as well, unrelated to this one.
 
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rjs330

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This isn't about someone's lifestyle, it is about gender-based discrimination.
When did gender enter into this. A gay men couple are still men. Are you claiming that they were discriminating against men, or the one of them was claiming the gender of woman?

Yes this IS about the gay lifestyle, homosexual relationships the sin of homosexual sex. You have been told this a million times. Now you are flat out bordering on lying about people's positions. You need to stop.
 
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rjs330

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You believing that the biblical arguments against miscegenation are poppycock is meaningless - plenty of Christians believe that the biblical arguments against gay marriage are poppycock too. In both cases though, there are Christians who do agree with those biblical arguments, and those biblical arguments are remarkably similar.

There are Christians who believe that interracial relationships are sinful too. Do you agree that they should not support what they see as sin?

Also, you might be interested to know that the majority of Christians in the US actually support gay marriage. White evangelicals are the only denomination that does not:
We don't care what other believers say. We care about what the Bible says. Did you catch what the mega church pastor said?

White evangelicals have not valued justice and equality,”

“We don’t want to become the monster of intolerance and inequality that we’ve fought for 400 years,” he said. “I think justice and the humanity of all of God’s creations is a supreme value in the African American community, especially in the Christian community. When you marry that with the American value of equality, it becomes a no-brainer.”

Funny he didn't quote one scripture. In fact he ignored many. He used political language of the left to support his positions. I would put money on it that he totally rejects Romans 1. Thus rejecting scripture. That is the state of the church today. And scripture is clear as to what happens to the church when it rejects sound doctrine and follows false teachers.

The great falling away is happening. How often do you hear, "well I don't believe that" when it comes to scripture or "that's not the God in believe in"?

The fact that Christians are flat out supporting sin is an indictment of the church today. They might as well support adultery.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Just because a majority Christians supports gay marriage, doesn't mean all Christians do. They still have a right to say no.
Just because a majority of Christians support interracial marriage doesn't mean that all Christians do. Do they still have a right to say no too?
 
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RileyG

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Just because a majority of Christians support interracial marriage doesn't mean that all Christians do. Do they still have a right to say no too?
Not the same at all. One is a union between a man and a woman of different races, the other is a relationship which most traditional conservative Christians consider sinful.
 
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Pommer

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Not the same at all. One is a union between a man and a woman of different races, the other is a relationship which most traditional conservative Christians consider sinful.
And most traditional conservative Christian are free to not marry a person of the same sex.
 
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