It's so difficult to find a non dispensational church...

[Jojo Paguio]

It's mostly because of how pretribulationists handle prophetic scripture, with constant "reassurances" that "we won't be here for any of this, this is for Israel", like they have to convince themselves.

I dunno, I suppose what I value so highly is scripture,

Right stick on your own devotion to God andto the Lord JesusChrist. Just look always unto Jesus focus rely on Him. Only the scripture can lead you near to God, Faith cometh by hearing the words of God.

 

[David Kent]

Romans 1 is for all gentiles in Rome who had converted to Judaism, ie proselytes.

Nonsense. Nothing in Romans mentions that.

 

[David Kent]

You're not going to convince me of dispensationalism. It's just not going to happen.
Dispensationalism basically serves to function as a way to try and force a pretribulation rapture that doesn't exist in the bible.
and I just get oh so tired of pastors having to interrupt their own sermons on any prophetic books with "but this won't happen until after the rapture" almost like they're trying to convince themselves.

I'd settle for historical premillennial post trib since finding one that is pre wrath is going to be extremely difficult but it's just hard finding something that's not full blown dispensational pretribulation, or amillennial replacement theologians. It's 1 extreme or the other.

What I really want is Historical Premillennialism.

In fact I am going to dispel this entire video with 1 verse:
Romans 1


Romans was not written "to Israel" it was written to saved people in Rome. This idea that books need to be carved up so that some parts of it are meant for unsaved Jews who won't even read it is just pure nonsense.

I dont think there are many churches that teach historical premillennialism. Although over here is is not hard to find a non dispensationalist Baptist church. The general Baptists may teach it, but bible based Baptists would not be. Charismatics probably are.

 

[David Kent]

I have been told by a dispensationalist who was a Plymouth Brethren that because I questioned him of his assertion that when the Angel tonnage disciples that Jesus would return in the same way. He said Jesus was speaking to Jews so he was only coming to Jews. When I said "where were Christians at that time" and n
He said, turning and walking away, "You don't believe the scripture."

I have been called a false teacher and an heretic a number of times by dispensationalists. They must believe that for 1800 years the church were all false teachers and heretics.

 

[Jamdoc]

I have been told by a dispensationalist who was a Plymouth Brethren that because I questioned him of his assertion that when the Angel tonnage disciples that Jesus would return in the same way. He said Jesus was speaking to Jews so he was only coming to Jews. When I said "where were Christians at that time" and n
He said, turning and walking away, "You don't believe the scripture."

I have been called a false teacher and an heretic a number of times by dispensationalists. They must believe that for 1800 years the church were all false teachers and heretics.

it's that obnoxious cherrypicking, I can't stand it. "well He was talking to the unbelieving Jews here, but Christians here"... in the same context of the same book? In the same pastoral epistle that Jews won't even read? Get real!

 

[David Kent]

The angel was actually addressing Christians.

 

[Aaron112]

Dispensationalism basically serves to function as a way to try and force a pretribulation rapture that doesn't exist in the bible.

No - apparently some forms of dispensationalism do that .
I'm surprised though to state this as if a fact when it is not.

I had no idea dispensationalist even believe in pretrib.... and found them to be some of the best teachers of Scripture, most accurate in details historically as well as Biblically in line with all Scripture, ....

 

[Aaron112]

What is the difference of a dispensation and non- dispensation church and why you want a non-dispensation church?

Apparently , from this thread, there is a very very wide difference in teachings of some who are called dispensationalists and others who are .... very different in practices and teachings...
but, most important overall, find those who stick with Scripture - they may be dispensationalist or not - stick with Scripture ,
and with the peace of Christ, harmony with all of the Creator's Plan and Purpose and all of Scripture...

 

[Aaron112]

This is not true , at least not for all who might be or might be called dispensationalists.>>>

but anyway, Matthew 24, Revelation, and the old testament prophets are things that dispensationalists just won't really engage,

================================
This is certainly true >> (I don't know what you mean that "the only others" , unless you mean locally, around where you live) >>

but the only others are amillennial, and that's even worse

 

[Jamdoc]

This is not true , at least not for all who might be or might be called dispensationalists.>>>

================================
This is certainly true >> (I don't know what you mean that "the only others" , unless you mean locally, around where you live) >>

yes I mean just around where I live. I found full blown dispensational pretrib statements and amillennial statements. Nothing else.

 

[Aaron112]

yes I mean just around where I live. I found full blown dispensational pretrib statements and amillennial statements. Nothing else.

Do you happen to feel, think, or agree that this is a problem in many places - that it is difficult if not near impossible to find people who simply agree with Scripture and love to get together and talk about Jesus and the Father and Scripture , without dogmas, etc ?

 

[Jamdoc]

Do you happen to feel, think, or agree that this is a problem in many places - that it is difficult if not near impossible to find people who simply agree with Scripture and love to get together and talk about Jesus and the Father and Scripture , without dogmas, etc ?

Sometimes, I think when there's a really dominant doctrinal view like dispensationalism is (outside of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches which still go with Amillennialism as their dominant view), it can kinda squeeze out other views and in these particular extremes it warps how they treat scripture. If they're dispensational I fear them avoiding a lot of scripture that is "not for the church" and mainly adhering to the letters of Paul
Like if I watch John MacArthur, about 95% of his sermons are on Paul's Epistles, or the 4 gospels+Acts.

There are however some cases where Pastors who are dispensational will teach old testament, Hebrews, Revelation, the letters of John and Peter, etc. and I suppose that's the best I might find.

 

[David Kent]

I would prefer to have a church where different views are put by different ministers. I think that dispensational churches think you are a heretic if you don't agree with ghem. They forget it is just an interpretation.

 

[Aaron112]

I would prefer to have a church where different views are put by different ministers. I think that dispensational churches think you are a heretic if you don't agree with ghem. They forget it is just an interpretation.

That might be said of all the places, disp and non-disp and other.

The disciples themselves, following Jesus, listening to Jesus and obeying Jesus Instructions daily,
did not involve themselves in various interpretations, knowing it was forbidden.

 

[Aaron112]

and I suppose that's the best I might find.

Did you ever find , see, or experience good true fellowship with a few believers following Jesus in a 'house church'/ gathering ?

 

[Aaron112]

I have been called a false teacher and an heretic a number of times by dispensationalists. They must believe that for 1800 years the church were all false teachers and heretics.

Be grieved that all the true teachers, from Jesus on, have been demeaned , dismissed, threatened, accosted, called liars, called 'of the devil', called false,
just as Jesus was Himself,
just as Jesus said plainly would happen to anyone who decides to follow Jesus.

Also, ever since Jesus time on earth, not all, but more were false teachers than true.

 

[Jamdoc]

Did you ever find , see, or experience good true fellowship with a few believers following Jesus in a 'house church'/ gathering ?

actually some of the best fellowship I've had have been just some house based bible studies.

 

[Jojo Paguio]

No - apparently some forms of dispensationalism do that .
I'm surprised though to state this as if a fact when it is not.

I had no idea dispensationalist even believe in pretrib.... and found them to be some of the best teachers of Scripture, most accurate in details historically as well as Biblically in line with all Scripture, ....

It is just only a presumption to the coming of second coming of the Lord JesusChrist When where what might be look like on that time and what might come first if Jesus is coming then who is the real will be saves or ruptured on that time as stated on the books of revelation and other related books in the bible.

 

[Jamdoc]

I mean as far as I knew pretrib was kinda an almost universal belief among dispensationalists

 

[Aaron112]

I mean as far as I knew pretrib was kinda an almost universal belief among dispensationalists

It seems that way and it is sad or grievous or ironic or whatever
that
others have been labelled 'dispys' who are not, but labelled because they have shown from Scripture and history different dispensations , such as they might be called,
and
when sticking with Scripture they do not agree with dispys or others who think pre-trib is true .

i.e. throw out the labels and preconceived (though popular?) notions
and agree with Scripture as the Creator Reveals His Plan and His Purpose
without man's labels..