I am your healer

[trophy33]

The sad part is allowing our attitudes to frustrate what He delights to do.

Nobody restricts God from what He delights to do. Everybody would like to be miraculously healed from everything.

But its simply not happening to a vast majority of people, therefore we cannot count on that (or even worse, attack those people for little faith, secret sins, not being good Christians and similar).

 

[Guojing]

Nobody restricts God from what He delights to do. Everybody would like to be miraculously healed from everything.

But its simply not happening to a vast majority of people, therefore we cannot count on that (or even worse, attack those people for little faith, secret sins, not being good Christians and similar).

If the high priest servant who was trying to arrest Jesus, his ears still can get healed by Jesus, his healing won't be frustrated by attitudes

 

[Carl Emerson]

Nobody restricts God from what He delights to do.

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

 

[trophy33]

Matthew 23:37
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

Thats a different context. People are willing to be healed, but they are not.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Thats a different context. People are willing to be healed, but they are not.

Exactly my point so your claim is incorrect.

Your claim that 'no one restricts God from what He delights to do' - is false.

 

[sandman]

Here are the Scripture verses:

John 1:14
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”

31 The Jews picked up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you going to stone me?” 33 The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, being a man, make yourself God.”

Also, on some occasions Jesus allowed Himself to be worshipped. Every time an angel appeared and the person went to worship him, the angel stopped him and said, "Don't worship me. I am just a fellow servant as you are." If Jesus was just a man, He would not have allowed anyone to worship Him, but being God and man, He had no problem when worshiped as God.

What you are supporting is the heresy of:
Socianism: A version of Arianism called Socianism (from the Latin socius, meaning "companion), simply says that Jesus was an extraordinary man. This heresy still lives on in two very different forms, the Unitarians and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you have ever read any of my posts …You will notice I do not surmise or fill in the gaps to complete God’s train of thought…………religion does that.

The Word of God is my only source of faith, practice, and truth. What God wants us to know …He had written in His Word. And I just happen to think that God is big enough to mean what He says and say what He means without assuming what He really meant or interpret some hidden message behind what is written ….

But to be transparent… there are a couple of areas where I do draw a conclusion based on various scriptures that point in a specific direction … one of those areas is “what died when Adam blew it?” Many scriptures point to it being “the spirit connection that was lost” …. but God has not specifically stated it in His Word...... So, I put in a disclaimer stating that I have surmised this…. based on such and such scripture….. It doesn’t matter to me if it’s “strongly implied” or “if everybody believes it” …. It’s not absolute unless God states it … until then it is speculation….and that is how it remains.

You might consider doing the same with the god/man situation… since it’s not specifically stated …. However, your supporting scripture needs to be without blemish, and you cannot honestly or rationally surmise something if it contradicts other scripture.

BTW…. trying to marginalize me by accusing me of supporting “Socianism” is like the Pharisees telling Jesus He had a devil …both cases are laughable. If you want to accuse me of something, accuse me of being narrow minded because I support what is written in the Word of God …that I will proudly accept.



Your statement about worship

The word worship does not represent what religion surmises today. The Greek word proskyneō means advanced or to make advances. This verb does not refer to anything specifically religious or even spiritual…. It is the meaning of the word intertwined with eastern culture.

proskyneō describes the entire spectrum or range of actions between initially noticing an interesting person in a far foggy distance, up to the point of becoming one (as a figure of speech) with that person.

I know the definition of this word goes against todays mental picture of worship …. at least it did for me, and based on your statement If Jesus was just a man, He would not have allowed anyone to worship Him, but being God and man, He had no problem when worshiped as God…… You have the same mental picture. Regardless of what the word worship means today, the meaning of words has to apply at the time they were used. And the meaning of this Greek word simply expresses the action of advancing toward someone, without specifying at which level of closeness or intimacy the process is halted or for what reason it is paused.

 

[trophy33]

Exactly my point so your claim is incorrect.

Your claim that 'no one restricts God from what He delights to do' - is false.

I do not think your logic is right.

When people are willing to be healed, but are not, nobody restricts God from doing that.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I do not think your logic is right.

When people are willing to be healed, but are not, nobody restricts God from doing that.

Are you saying that Jesus was God and man when He was in the world, or that He was just an extraordinary man empowered by the Holy Spirit and didn't become God again until He rose from the dead?

The answer to the question is vital to being able to believe that we can do exactly what Jesus was able to do, like walk on water, still storms, and feed thousand of people with someone's lunch, also to heal everyone who came to Him for healing, and raising the dead.

What I see today, in spite of believers being empowered by the Holy Spirit, there is no evidence that they are able to do any of these works, let alone greater works. So, what did Jesus really mean when He said that we will be able to do the works that He did, even greater works?

 

[trophy33]

Are you saying that Jesus was God and man when He was in the world, or that He was just an extraordinary man empowered by the Holy Spirit and didn't become God again until He rose from the dead?

The answer to the question is vital to being able to believe that we can do exactly what Jesus was able to do, like walk on water, still storms, and feed thousand of people with someone's lunch, also to heal everyone who came to Him for healing, and raising the dead.

What I see today, in spite of believers being empowered by the Holy Spirit, there is no evidence that they are able to do any of these works, let alone greater works. So, what did Jesus really mean when He said that we will be able to do the works that He did, even greater works?

Iam saying that many Christians want to be healed, pray both for themselves and for others, but are not. Thats simply how facts are.

Maybe somebody somewhere is healed miraculously, like 1 in 1000 people, and his story travels through internet. But the silent majority of sick and dying people do not share this publicly, because its private and painful.

So, this positive result publicity bias may make some Christians feel like its common, but its really not.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Iam saying that many Christians want to be healed, pray both for themselves and for others, but are not. Thats simply how facts are.

Maybe somebody somewhere is healed miraculously, like 1 in 1000 people, and his story travels through internet. But the silent majority of sick and dying people do not share this publicly, because its private and painful.

So, this positive result publicity bias may make some Christians feel like its common, but its really not.

You avoided answering my question, so I assume you don't know the answer.

 

[Guojing]

Iam saying that many Christians want to be healed, pray both for themselves and for others, but are not. Thats simply how facts are.

Maybe somebody somewhere is healed miraculously, like 1 in 1000 people, and his story travels through internet. But the silent majority of sick and dying people do not share this publicly, because its private and painful.

So, this positive result publicity bias may make some Christians feel like its common, but its really not.

Reminds me of what I read on someone's social media page, who is ex-Word of faith.

"What I really sympathize with is those people who are caught up in this movement [Word-of-Faith] and are leading lives of quiet desperation. Because, when you're in this mess you feel like you’re the only one who just can’t seem to get the blessings promised to manifest. You feel so all alone. And you can’t talk to anybody and tell them what you are really going through because it would be a bad confession.

And since you’re told one of the reasons it’s not working is because you lack enough faith, you buy the latest book/CD/DVD or whatever. And you are promised if you just get “this” teaching it will answer your questions and you will have real breakthroughs! In the WOF world it’s phrases like, “Fresh anointing”, “New Revelations”, “The latest move of God” and so forth, you don’t want to miss any of those things!

But that never works! It’s depressing when you realize you’re stuck on the charismatic carousel. Oh, the horses appear to be moving but all you do is spin round and round on your road to nowhere. Those promised blessings are always just beyond your grasp.

Then one day you wake up and realize that all those other people who attend the Camp meetings, seminars etc. are just like you. And nobody else is really getting anything either! There is that unwritten code of silence because after all you don’t want to make a bad confession. So, nobody says anything. Everybody just keeps smiling suffering in silence and going to the meetings and lifting their hands in praise while they live Lifes of quiet desperation. However, their billfold is a lot lighter!"

 

[trophy33]

You avoided answering my question, so I assume you don't know the answer.

I do not know what Jesus meant by that sentence (if He said it), because He did not explain it. So we can only speculate.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I do not know what Jesus meant by that sentence (if He said it), because He did not explain it. So we can only speculate.

The answer is that Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure. What this means is that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one in essence, although three Persons. so they are not separated. Jesus said that the Father was in Him and He was in the Father, and that shows a direct unity between them. The same is said of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was in Him from birth, as He was in total unity with the preincarnate Son. Jesus didn't stop being the Son of God when He was born of Mary, so therefore, Jesus had the Father and the Holy Spirit in Him from birth and so He was in the Father and the Holy Spirit. This is the reason why He did works that we could never do, because we are just mere humans empowered by a measure of the Holy Spirit according to our faith. Jesus didn't need faith. As God He could do what was necessary without being limited by our law of physics.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The answer is that Jesus had the Holy Spirit without measure. What this means is that Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are one in essence, although three Persons. so they are not separated. Jesus said that the Father was in Him and He was in the Father, and that shows a direct unity between them. The same is said of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was in Him from birth, as He was in total unity with the preincarnate Son. Jesus didn't stop being the Son of God when He was born of Mary, so therefore, Jesus had the Father and the Holy Spirit in Him from birth and so He was in the Father and the Holy Spirit. This is the reason why He did works that we could never do, because we are just mere humans empowered by a measure of the Holy Spirit according to our faith. Jesus didn't need faith. As God He could do what was necessary without being limited by our law of physics.

If you theory is correct, how was Philip transported after talking to the eunuch ??? He wasn't limited to physical laws.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

If you theory is correct, how was Philip transported after talking to the eunuch ??? He wasn't limited to physical laws.

Are you saying then that Philip was a god then? Or is the Holy Spirit capable of transporting someone from one place to another without the person having a divine nature? Was Philip able to heal all who came to him for healing? The Scripture doesn't say. Also the Scripture does not say that Philip had that ability on a routine basis. All we know is that it happened once. This does not support that Philip himself had the ability to overrule the laws of physics.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Are you saying then that Philip was a god then? Or is the Holy Spirit capable of transporting someone from one place to another without the person having a divine nature? Was Philip able to heal all who came to him for healing? The Scripture doesn't say. Also the Scripture does not say that Philip had that ability on a routine basis. All we know is that it happened once. This does not support that Philip himself had the ability to overrule the laws of physics.

And Peter walking on Water?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

And Peter walking on Water?

Jesus gave him that ability. After Jesus was risen and ascended there is no record that Peter repeated it, because without the direct physical presence of Jesus, Peter couldn't have walked on water again.

 

[Fervent]

I'm not entirely sure I understand why you're receiving so much push back, since whether or not God heals should not impact our willingness to pray for faith and healing. There seems to be a great deal of unbelief in this thread, and it's dressed up as caution. We don't have to tread into word of faith waters or name it and claim it type of thinking to desire and pray that our faith be increased and to constantly pray for miraculous healing in every case. If we who are evil know how to give good gifts, how much more does God? If we ask for bread, would he give us a stone? What harm is there in praying for the miraculous intervention of God in our diseases and infirmities? What good comes from resigning ourselves to the ravages of sin and death?

 

[sandman]

There is only one action that is required for healing in the Bible and that is the verb believing pisteuō (G4102, (G4100) from which we get the feminine noun pistis (G3982) = faith and that originates from the primary verb peithō (G3982) which means persuaded, having confidence and trust.

So many times we hear the phrase “you got to have more faith”, probably due to certain passages like “the mustard seed”. Which people take as quantity not quality. But we have been given the capacity of faith (to believe) of Jesus Christ. Believing is not a measurable thing (per se) on a scale of 1-10 …....ten being believing. You either believe or you don’t….it’s a 10 or it’s a zero. (it is quality not quantity)

You know those sledgehammer ring the bell things at the fair …You don’t get a prize for almost ringing the bell, just as you don’t get results for almost believing. Fortunately, it doesn’t take strength, articulation, and coordination to believe as it does with ringing the bell.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

A better translation to this verse is: For as the body without the spirit is dead so is believing without action dead also.

It’s either alive or dead …there is no in-between.

The literal translation of Hebrews_ 11:1 Now believing is the title deed of things hoped for, the evidence it is yours before you have it.



Believing is so simple and yet so hard ….because it is outside the realm of the 5 senses .. but most of us do it within the natural realm with ease. How often do you go to a gas station and debate with yourself whether to put fuel in your auto because you are concerned it might pump water, chocolate milk or Gatorade in your tank; you don’t …..You believe, and have that confidence that people you don’t even know have refined that crude oil down to the specific grade of gasoline that will not ruin your engine. You may baulk at the price ….but you don’t think twice about pumping gas ……….All you EV people …just play along …you have your own concerns.



Here is the way it’s laid out in the Word.

When you believe (without doubt) according to promises written in the Word they absolutely will come to pass.

As for ministering to people…………. God has given every born-again believer the ability to operate the manifestation of the holy spirit that is within you. What you choose to operate is up to you, but each and every one of the 9 manifestation(s) of the spirit listed in 1Co 12:8-10 are available for you to tap. They are not gifts …they are a manifestation (evidence) of the gift … of holy spirit. These did not cease with the apostles ….if they did…. the Word of God would fall to pieces.

When it comes to ministering to people you need to ask God first, or in some instances God may just tell you without asking. (that is word of Knowledge)…. what to do is “word of Wisdom”. Sometimes it may be just speaking the Word to someone about healing to get them to the point of believing and then God will tell you what to do. It may be to minister healing …it may not…. at that specific time.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

There is only one action that is required for healing in the Bible and that is the verb believing pisteuō (G4102, (G4100) from which we get the feminine noun pistis (G3982) = faith and that originates from the primary verb peithō (G3982) which means persuaded, having confidence and trust.

So many times we hear the phrase “you got to have more faith”, probably due to certain passages like “the mustard seed”. Which people take as quantity not quality. But we have been given the capacity of faith (to believe) of Jesus Christ. Believing is not a measurable thing (per se) on a scale of 1-10 …....ten being believing. You either believe or you don’t….it’s a 10 or it’s a zero. (it is quality not quantity)

You know those sledgehammer ring the bell things at the fair …You don’t get a prize for almost ringing the bell, just as you don’t get results for almost believing. Fortunately, it doesn’t take strength, articulation, and coordination to believe as it does with ringing the bell.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

A better translation to this verse is: For as the body without the spirit is dead so is believing without action dead also.

It’s either alive or dead …there is no in-between.

The literal translation of Hebrews_ 11:1 Now believing is the title deed of things hoped for, the evidence it is yours before you have it.



Believing is so simple and yet so hard ….because it is outside the realm of the 5 senses .. but most of us do it within the natural realm with ease. How often do you go to a gas station and debate with yourself whether to put fuel in your auto because you are concerned it might pump water, chocolate milk or Gatorade in your tank; you don’t …..You believe, and have that confidence that people you don’t even know have refined that crude oil down to the specific grade of gasoline that will not ruin your engine. You may baulk at the price ….but you don’t think twice about pumping gas ……….All you EV people …just play along …you have your own concerns.



Here is the way it’s laid out in the Word.

When you believe (without doubt) according to promises written in the Word they absolutely will come to pass.

As for ministering to people…………. God has given every born-again believer the ability to operate the manifestation of the holy spirit that is within you. What you choose to operate is up to you, but each and every one of the 9 manifestation(s) of the spirit listed in 1Co 12:8-10 are available for you to tap. They are not gifts …they are a manifestation (evidence) of the gift … of holy spirit. These did not cease with the apostles ….if they did…. the Word of God would fall to pieces.

When it comes to ministering to people you need to ask God first, or in some instances God may just tell you without asking. (that is word of Knowledge)…. what to do is “word of Wisdom”. Sometimes it may be just speaking the Word to someone about healing to get them to the point of believing and then God will tell you what to do. It may be to minister healing …it may not…. at that specific time.

All this is perfectly true, and if the church in general were in a right place with God then we would see the supernatural gifts of the Spirit flowing, But we don't, and that is because the church in general has strayed from the sound doctrine of the Gospel, and has gone into fables, ritual, ceremony and man-directed programmes. As Leonard Ravenhill said, "Instead of agonising in the Upper Room, there is organising in the supper room", and "playing instead of praying." In fact, generally, the church has become more of a religious club catering for its members, than a visible representation of Christ in the world in order to draw sinners to Christ.

Even though there may be a number of faithful believers in a church who are praying for the gifts to manifest, the general attitude of the rest, even in the leadership, is quenching and grieving the Spirit, and where the Spirit is being grieved, His gifts don't function.