Pre-Mil Only Can those who were non-believers at the start of Tribulation survive the 7 years then get saved and enter the 1000 years w/o dying as martyrs?

[dwb001]

Yes, when Jesus is physically present on the Earth, it won't be about faith anymore, everyone will know He exists & can resurrect people etc. It will then be about will people worship Him, for eternity. Some will still choose not to.

I disagree.
That is not what Revelation narrates.
Only the chosen that are part of the first resurection/millennium kingdom, will worship Christ.
The rest of the world will not worship Christ.
All will choose not to.

 

[d taylor]

That is an assumption, along with no people living in a very isolated way.
Everyone who enters the millennium will be a believer but believing won't be an issue or sufficient any more. It is more correct to say, can someone who is not a worshiper of Jesus / God enter or exist in the millennium.

At that time (7 year trib on) it will be increasingly obvious Jesus exists & is a deity, but will He be worshiped??

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The assumption is that people can survive in bunker for the seven years and have no contact with what is going on. The time of the tribulation will not be like now.

That is like saying someone other than Noah could have survived the flood by having their own boat.

 

[dwb001]

No, there are no nonbelievers going into the 1000 millennium. The nonbelievers in the 1000 millennium come from believing believers (their children and children of their children, etc...) all Jews will be believers in the 1000 millennium, so the nonbelievers are all gentiles.

Sorry... your post makes no sense to me.
I never mentioned Jews.
What about the non Jews that survive until Jesus return?
Where in Revelation is the verse that says the children of millennium saints (persons who stand in the physical presence of Jesus) will not believe and then fight against their parents and the God they grew up with?

 

[Sorn]

No, there are no nonbelievers going into the 1000 millennium. The nonbelievers in the 1000 millennium come from believing believers (their children and children of their children, etc...) all Jews will be believers in the 1000 millennium, so the nonbelievers are all gentiles.

This view then says that only Jews will exist int he millennium, but revelation talks about the nations coming to pay homage to Jesus.
so which nations?? Rev 15:4

 

[Sorn]

The assumption is that people can survive in bunker for the seven years and have no contact with what is going on. The time of the tribulation will not be like now.​

That is like saying someone other than Noah could have survived the flood by having their own boat.

No its not, what about these:

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See inside the luxury bunkers where the superrich reportedly plan to save themselves from a future apocalypse

Companies like Vivos and Rising S offer luxury shelters with amenities that include underground pools, gardens, horse stables, and bars.

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Some Bear Gryll's types could go live in the middle of a jungle surviving off the land for 7 years. There were Japanese soldiers that lived by themselves for years on Pacific islands long after the war was over because they had been forgotten about. Of course it can be done, but probably only 1% of 1% of people could do this.

 

[dwb001]

No its not, what about these:

How do you doomsday prep if you’re a billionaire? With OTT luxury bunkers

Tech billionaires are spending millions on luxury doomsday bunkers to keep them safe in case of future apocalypse … but what are they like exactly, and can they actually help residents survive?

www.scmp.com

See inside the luxury bunkers where the superrich reportedly plan to save themselves from a future apocalypse

Companies like Vivos and Rising S offer luxury shelters with amenities that include underground pools, gardens, horse stables, and bars.

www.businessinsider.com

Some Bear Gryll's types could go live in the middle of a jungle surviving off the land for 7 years. There were Japanese soldiers that lived by themselves for years on Pacific islands long after the war was over because they had been forgotten about. Of course it can be done, but probably only 1% of 1% of people could do this.

So you have not considered the intensity of the earthquake that removes every mountain and island?
A hole in a mountain that is not there anymore is not much of a shelter.

 

[d taylor]

This view then says that only Jews will exist int he millennium, but revelation talks about the nations coming to pay homage to Jesus.
so which nations?? Rev 15:4

The believing believers are gentile, i then state all Jews will be believers.

In the millennium all Jews will be believers but also in the millennium, at the start there will be only believing gentiles. But as they (gentile believers) have children some of those children will be nonbelievers but there will never be an unbelieving Jew in the millennium

At the start of the millennium there are believing gentiles and also Jewish believers, there are no nonbelieving gentiles or nonbelieving Jews that go into the millennium

 

[dwb001]

The believers believers are gentile, i then state all Jews will be believers.

In the millennium all Jews will be believers but also in the millennium, at the start there will be only believing gentiles. But as they (gentile believers) have children some of those children will be nonbelievers but there will never be an unbelieving Jew in the millennium

So someone who is raised from childhood with Jesus (and with no Satan to tempt them) will turn away and make bloody war with their parents and God?
Does not pass the sniff test.

 

[Sorn]

The believing believers are gentile, i then state all Jews will be believers.

In the millennium all Jews will be believers but also in the millennium, at the start there will be only believing gentiles. But as they (gentile believers) have children some of those children will be nonbelievers but there will never be an unbelieving Jew in the millennium

Everyone who makes it into the millennium will be a believer, by definiton.
Its like saying I believe the city of Paris exists but I am not a Parisian because I don't live there

So can a person who says yes to the 2 following points (who didn't take the mark of the beast) enter the millennium??
1) I believe the city of Paris exists = I believe Jesus exists and is a deity because I can see Him on TV and saw how He destroyed armies etc
2) I am not a Parisian because I don't live there = I am not a Jew or Christian because I do not worship Him

there is a difference. If you want to say that only people who are from group 1 and worship Jesus enter the millennium thats fine but others are saying that there may be people from group 2 also. Certainly will be at the end of the millennium. At the end of the day its just a thought experiment, for now, not core doctrine either way.

 

[Sorn]

So you have not considered the intensity of the earthquake that removes every mountain and island?
A hole in a mountain that is not there anymore is not much of a shelter.

Well if they have a bible handy they'll know approx when the earthquakes start and then go Bear Gryll's in a jungle somewhere

 

[dwb001]

Everyone who makes it into the millennium will be a believer, by definiton.
Its like saying I believe the city of Paris exists but I am not a Parisian because I don't live there

Sources... you appear to keep making these statements without backing your claims.
I disagree with your assessment and so does a simple reading of Revelation.

So can a person who says yes to the 2 following points (who didn't take the mark of the beast) enter the millennium??
1) I believe the city of Paris exists = I believe Jesus exists and is a diety because I can see Him on TV and saw how He destroyed armies etc
2) I am not a Parisian because I don't live there - I am not a Jew or Christian because I do not worship Him

there is a difference. If you want to say that only people who are from group 1 and worship Jesus enter the millennium thats fine but others are saying that there may be people from group 2 also. Certainly will be at the end of the millennium. At the end of the day its just a thought experiment, for now, not core doctrine either way.

So if it is not core doctrine you are ok with out providing any references that back your baseless claims?

 

[d taylor]

So someone who is raised from childhood with Jesus (and with no Satan to tempt them) will turn away and make bloody war with their parents and God?
Does not pass the sniff test.

I have to leave for work/

People are still sinners from Adam

 

[dwb001]

I have to leave for work/

People are still sinners from Adam

That does nothing to bolster your claim about the Millennium.
You have created a scenario in which we have a new Eden during the Millennium.
100% faithful people living in close relationship with Christ.
The Godly Resurrected walking the streets and worshiping the Almighty.
If there is no Satan(Rev 20:1-3) to tempt then why would man fall a second time?
Nope... there has to be something missing from your view of the Millennium.

 

[d taylor]

That does nothing to bolster your claim about the Millennium.
You have created a scenario in which we have a new Eden during the Millennium.
100% faithful people living in close relationship with Christ.
The Godly Resurrected walking the streets and worshiping the Almighty.
If there is no Satan(Rev 20:1-3) to tempt then why would man fall a second time?
Nope... there has to be something missing from your view of the Millennium.

If it is like you say then why are people in danger of being cast into the lake of fire. Do you really understand how strict Jesus will rule His kingdom during the 1000 years.
If not go read Mathew 25 again

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire


The millennium will eventually be filled with unbelievers

 

[d taylor]

Everyone who makes it into the millennium will be a believer, by definiton.
Its like saying I believe the city of Paris exists but I am not a Parisian because I don't live there

So can a person who says yes to the 2 following points (who didn't take the mark of the beast) enter the millennium??
1) I believe the city of Paris exists = I believe Jesus exists and is a deity because I can see Him on TV and saw how He destroyed armies etc
2) I am not a Parisian because I don't live there = I am not a Jew or Christian because I do not worship Him

there is a difference. If you want to say that only people who are from group 1 and worship Jesus enter the millennium thats fine but others are saying that there may be people from group 2 also. Certainly will be at the end of the millennium. At the end of the day its just a thought experiment, for now, not core doctrine either way.

Not sure why you are making this hard, it really is simple. your illustration may make sense to you. But i get nothing from it.

At the start of the millennium, from the tribulation believing gentiles and believing Jews both go into the 1000 years physically alive, again from the tribulation. To begin to repopulate the earth

 

[dwb001]

If it is like you say then why are people in danger of being cast into the lake of fire. Do you really understand how strict Jesus will rule His kingdom during the 1000 years.
If not go read Mathew 25 again

How does this have anything to do with the Rapture? or the Millennium?
Lake of fire for all the unbelievers over all time.
Lake of fire does not make a second appearance until the Great White Throne judgement which is the last thing done on Earth.... AFTER the millennium.

You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’ But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire


The millennium will eventually be filled with unbelievers

Where is your proof to back up your opinion?
Show me the Biblical reference that people will "fall" during the millennium.
The unbelievers... sure.
But the believers will "fall" like a third Adam... I don't see that in Scripture.
Please point out the verses I may have missed that back your claims.

 

[dwb001]

Not sure why you are making this hard, it really is simple. your illustration may make sense to you. But i get nothing from it.

At the start of the millennium, from the tribulation believing gentiles and believing Jews both go into the 1000 years physically alive, again from the tribulation. To begin to repopulate the earth

Along with the unbelieving nations.
Where does the Bible say the believers are to repopulate the Earth during the Millennium?

 

[Tall Timbers]

There will be a great mulititude who coming to know Christ as Savior during the Tribulation years. Most will perish but some will survive, and those will be the mortals who repopulate the earth during the Millennial reign.

 

[dwb001]

There will be a great mulititude who coming to know Christ as Savior during the Tribulation years. Most will perish but some will survive, and those will be the mortals who repopulate the earth during the Millennial reign.

Where is the verse that says people will come to Christ during the Tribulation?
I just keep reading about "apostasy" and "falling away" and the Churches not enduring.
If there are special blessings for enduring... that would indicate that many do not endure... and those are the ones who already believe.

 

[Tall Timbers]

Where is the verse that says people will come to Christ during the Tribulation?
I just keep reading about "apostasy" and "falling away" and the Churches not enduring.
If there are special blessings for enduring... that would indicate that many do not endure... and those are the ones who already believe.

Mat 25:31-46