From what law did Paul set us free?

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

We don't disagree on a single belief you listed. The only possible things I can think of might be Judas where we can grieve away the HS and thus lose our salvation, and the seventh day Sabbath.

One of my favorite preachers was an Irish guy by the name of James Macconnell who was an Episcopalian minister at the Belfast. Ireland Whitewell Memorial Tabernacle. He taught righteousness by faith as well as any SDA minister I've ever heard. God used him to take a small membership church in a rented room of 10 people and before he retired that church had grown to a church of 3500 people of whom the vast majority really loved the Lord. Their enthusiasm for God comes through in their congregational singing. Here is a sample video of it. This is probably my favorite video and two of my favorite hymns they sing. I think you'll see why.

Seems like we mostly agree, so that's good. Those old hymns often have deep meaning. I agree that their enthusiasm for the Lord comes through in their singing.

 

[Gary K]

Seems like we mostly agree, so that's good. Those old hymns often have deep meaning. I agree that their enthusiasm for the Lord comes through in their singing.

Mcconnell's comes through in his singing too. I don't know that I've ever seen a more enthusiastic preacher.

Here is a link to his testimony. From what I understand it is the last time he gave his testimony outside of Ireland.

 

[Guojing]

Brother, the strongest evidence comes from his benediction of Hebrews. Paul makes his customary exit, citing his fellow worker and faithful servant, Timothy:

I urge you, dear brothers and sisters, to pay attention to what I have written in this brief exhortation. I want you to know that our brother Timothy has been released from jail. If he comes here soon, I will bring him with me to see you. Greet all your leaders and all the believers there. The believers from Italy send you their greetings. May God’s grace be with you all. (Hebrews 13:22-25 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

That is not definitive proof that Paul is the author.

While Timothy was most definitely a helpful coworker of the Apostle Paul, Paul had many other ministry companions as well. It could have been one of these friends of Paul who wrote Hebrews. At that time, many believers called Timothy “brother.”

In fact, Paul considered Timothy as a “son” (1 Corinthians 4:17; Philippians 2:19-23; 1 Timothy 1:2,18; 2 Timothy 1:2) more often than he considered him a “brother” (2 Corinthians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 3:2; Philemon 1).

Therefore, Hebrews 13:23 is not definitive proof Paul wrote Hebrews.

 

[guevaraj]

Circumcision was a sign that Abraham already had faith and that God had already accepted him and declared him to be righteous—even before he was circumcised. So Abraham is the spiritual father of those who have faith but have not been circumcised. They are counted as righteous because of their faith. And Abraham is also the spiritual father of those who have been circumcised, but only if they have the same kind of faith Abraham had before he was circumcised. (Romans 4:11-12 NLT)

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! Abraham put his faith in God, unlike his wife Sarah, who's decision to give Abraham a son through Hagar is compared to Judaism, by substituting what God promised with a human solution. Judaism put their faith in their substitute human "law", replacing what God asked with something easier for them to obey. Paul compares Judaism to Hagar, who is a human replacement for God's promise to give Abraham a son through Sarah, because Sarah did not have the faith to wait on God to fulfill His promise. Judaism's substitute human "law" cannot save you from sin because you are not obeying "all" of God's Eleven Commandments, which free you from sin. Jesus' forgiveness will not last long before you sin again if you fail to take advantage of His forgivenesses to grow out of your sin by putting forth the effort to "obey" God's Eleven Commandments, which set us free from sin when obeyed. We grow out of sin by obeying the Eleven Commandments like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. Judaism failed because they sabotaged what God asked, replacing His Ten Commandments with human "law". Making their obedience to human "law" not remove the sin that obeying God's Ten Commandments would have removed.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law/commandment and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

The many forgivenesses for sin in disobedience to the Ten Commandments would have made them obedient had they put the effort to obey God instead of the substitute human "law" that did not remove the sin of disobeying the Ten Commandments, replacing God's "order" through the prophets, which would have removed their sin. We can grow out of sin by obeying God because of Jesus' daily forgivenesses as our High Priest. Those who do not take advantage of Jesus' many forgivenesses to grow out of their sins will die because of their sin, having wasted the opportunity Jesus gave them through His many forgivenesses when Jesus calls to account the wasted time of grace before judgment to allow you to grow out of your sin. Paul tells us in the following passage that to remain a "slave" to sin leads to death and only through obedience to God can you be free from your slavery to sin. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. We do the same thing Judaism did by replacing the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment with Sunday, started by the bishops of Rome, replacing what God asks with human tradition that does not remove the sin that leads to death.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of humans in Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (disobeying the Eleven Commandments)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace in the Father putting Jesus as our High Priest)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), which leads to death (like Judaism's sabotage of not obeying "all" of God's Ten Commandments), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments that remove sin), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments that remove sin)! Once you were slaves of sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. Heb 9:15

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! We are not in control of Jesus' forgiveness for our sins in a past event at the cross that gained Him the position as our High Priest to forgive or not forgive at His discretion. Jesus is in control of giving or not giving His forgiveness conditionally in obedience to the Eleven Commandments that remove sin. We are forgiven for our "sins" when we pray to our High Priest Jesus for doing what He asks in the Eleven Commandments. Our forgiveness does not take place in the past at the cross, but when we pray daily for our forgiveness of our past sin of disobeying the Eleven Commandments. In the following passage, Jesus has made His forgiveness also conditional on our forgiving others their sin against us, or Jesus will not forgive us our sin at the time we ask for forgiveness in prayer. Before the Father placed Jesus as our High Priest, you turned to the earthly temple with human priests and animal sacrifices to benefit from God's many forgivnesses. Since the Father placed Jesus as our High Priest to give many faster "daily" forgivenesses than animal sacrifices, now you pray for forgiveness, which takes place in the true heavenly temple where Jesus serves as our High Priest for the many "daily" forgivenesses mentioned in the following passage through prayer, for which the earthly was a shadow, a temporary stand-in copy for the true heavenly temple:

Pray like this: Our Father in heaven, may your name be kept holy. May your Kingdom come soon. May your will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us today the food we need, and forgive us our sins, as we have forgiven those who sin against us. And don’t let us yield to temptation, but rescue us from the evil one. “If you forgive those who sin against you, your heavenly Father will forgive you. But if you refuse to forgive others, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:9-15 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

That is the point of Romans 6:14 -- we are free indeed because Jesus set us free from the law and it's condemnation for our sin.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! Even if Paul used the law to refer only to what comes from God, which he did not, comparing Judaism to Hagar for replacing what God asked with human "law". God's Law and grace make the same demand of obedience to the Eleven Commandments to remove sin. The deference is that the Law of God alone is unforgiving without the grace of Jesus, not allowing growth through practice when you have gone far away from God's way, unable to return without practice, while grace gives you as many chances as you need to grow out of sin, bringing you back to obedience even if you have gone far away from God's Eleven Commandments to return without practice. The law alone does not encourage a child to learn to walk because it demands the child's death on the first fall and what child can learn to walk without practice? Jesus' added grace does empower the child to learn to walk by letting him get up again and again until he no longer falls. Instead of fearing to learn to walk, the child is encouraged to learn to walk by the grace of its parents. However, grace is for the child who wants to learn to walk without falling and grace will not benefit the person who prefers to be unable to stand on the day of judgment. Such a man will suffer the punishment of the law, having no excuse for the wasted grace of Jesus provided, on the day of judgment.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law(Hebrew word "nomos", of humans in Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (disobeying the Eleven Commandments)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace in the Father putting Jesus as our High Priest)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), which leads to death (like Judaism's sabotage of not obeying "all" of God's Ten Commandments), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments that remove sin), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments that remove sin)! Once you were slaves of sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

Paul didn't set us free. Jesus did..

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! Jesus did no such thing, wanting us to obey "all" His Eleven Commandments!

“If you love me, obey my commandments (plural meaning "all" of the Eleven Commandments). And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you. Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live. When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Those who accept my commandments (plural meaning "all" of the Eleven Commandments) and obey them (unlike Judaism sabotage of the Ten Commandments) are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” (John 14:15-21 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

Many think Paul did in the following passage where Paul says that God's grace has set us free from the "law". What "law" is Paul referring to? Paul does not qualify it like some have assumed "of Moses" to eliminate the Ten Commandments when such a qualification of Paul's use of "law" in the passage does not fit the context of Paul's message where he tells us he is not saying we can go on sinning. Sinning being to disobey the Ten Commandments.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (lawlessness)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (lawlessness), which leads to death (like Judaism's example of sabotaging God's Ten Commandments to not remove sin), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus's many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments)! Once you were slaves of sin (lawlessness), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey God's Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

What "law" is Paul referring to above that God's grace has set us free from? Notice that Paul is not setting us free to sin, which is the purpose of God's Ten Commandments, to keep us from sinning when obeyed. The context reveals that Paul is not setting us free from the Ten Commandments because that would allow us to sin. Paul is saying that the grace of God has set us free from some other "law" whose removal would not allow us to sin. Obviously Paul is referring to the human "law" of Judaism confirmed through Hagar in the following passage. Human "law" in Judaism that sabotaged the Ten Commandments to not remove the sin that the Ten Commandments were meant to remove. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly.

Tell me, you who want to live under the law (the "law" of Judaism that does not remove sin), do you know what the law actually says? (The law says what is sin) The Scriptures say that Abraham had two sons, one from his slave wife and one from his freeborn wife. The son of the slave wife was born in a human attempt to bring about the fulfillment of God’s promise (the promise to remove sin from our character). But the son of the freeborn wife was born as God’s own fulfillment of his promise. These two women serve as an illustration of God’s two covenants. The first woman, Hagar, represents Mount Sinai where people received the law that enslaved them (Judaism is enslaved in sin because they sabotaged God's law to not remove sin). And now Jerusalem is just like Mount Sinai in Arabia, because she and her children live in slavery (to sin) to the law (added by the translators, not found in the original). But the other woman, Sarah, represents the heavenly Jerusalem. She is the free woman (free from sin), and she is our mother (Sarah). As Isaiah said, “Rejoice, O childless woman (Sarah), you who have never given birth! Break into a joyful shout, you who have never been in labor! For the desolate woman (Sarah) now has more children than the woman (Hagar) who lives with her husband!” And you, dear brothers and sisters, are children of the promise (the promise to remove sin from our character), just like Isaac. But you are now being persecuted by those who want you to keep the law (of Judaism that does not remove sin), just as Ishmael, the child born by human effort, persecuted Isaac, the child born by the power of the Spirit. But what do the Scriptures say about that? “Get rid of the slave and her son, for the son of the slave woman will not share the inheritance with the free woman’s son.” So, dear brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman (Hagar); we are children of the free woman (Sarah). (Galatians 4:21-31 NLT fixed and overlaid with commentary)​

Hagar's son to Abraham came from the human will and not from God's will to give Abraham a son through Hagar. Hagar is not the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai but the "human attempt" to fulfill the will of God expressed on Mount Sinai. Therefore, it is not God's "order" through the prophets that are tied to Hagar, but human "law" found in Judaism that come from sinful "blind guides" to use "law" to accomplish God's will expressed on Mount Sinai, that Jesus says in the following passage: "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces". It is not God's "order" through the prophets expressed on Mount Sinai that "shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces", it is Judaism's human replacement "law" for God's "order" through the prophets that "shut the door of the Kingdom of heaven in people's faces".

“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you shut the door of the Kingdom of Heaven in people’s faces. You won’t go in yourselves, and you don’t let others enter either. “What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! “Blind guides! What sorrow awaits you! For you say that it means nothing to swear ‘by God’s Temple,’ but that it is binding to swear ‘by the gold in the Temple.’ Blind fools! Which is more important—the gold or the Temple that makes the gold sacred? And you say that to swear ‘by the altar’ is not binding, but to swear ‘by the gifts on the altar’ is binding. How blind! For which is more important—the gift on the altar or the altar that makes the gift sacred? When you swear ‘by the altar,’ you are swearing by it and by everything on it. And when you swear ‘by the Temple,’ you are swearing by it and by God, who lives in it. And when you swear ‘by heaven,’ you are swearing by the throne of God and by God, who sits on the throne. (Matthew 23:13-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[guevaraj]

That is not definitive proof that Paul is the author. While Timothy was most definitely a helpful coworker of the Apostle Paul, Paul had many other ministry companions as well. It could have been one of these friends of Paul who wrote Hebrews. At that time, many believers called Timothy “brother.” In fact, Paul considered Timothy as a “son” (1 Corinthians 4:17; Philippians 2:19-23; 1 Timothy 1:2,18; 2 Timothy 1:2) more often than he considered him a “brother” (2 Corinthians 1:1; Colossians 1:1; 1 Thessalonians 3:2; Philemon 1). Therefore, Hebrews 13:23 is not definitive proof Paul wrote Hebrews.

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! What convinces me that it was written by Paul is that the book of Hebrews knows the truth about the days of the week God established in Genesis, being from morning to morning. A biblical truth misunderstood since Joshua to be evening to evening because of the Sabbath in Jerusalem falling half a day earlier than the seventh day of the week. This tells me that the book of Hebrews is inspired! God's chosen prophet to deliver such messages was Paul, as God tells us below.

But the Lord said, “Go, for Saul is my chosen instrument to take my message to the Gentiles and to kings, as well as to the people of Israel. And I will show him how much he must suffer for my name’s sake.” (Acts 9:15-16 NLT)​

We know Paul is the one chosen by God to deliver these messages because that is what God said He would do after Moses.

Moses continued, “The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him. For this is what you yourselves requested of the LORD your God when you were assembled at Mount Sinai. You said, ‘Don’t let us hear the voice of the LORD our God anymore or see this blazing fire, for we will die.’ “Then the LORD said to me, ‘What they have said is right. I will raise up a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell the people everything I command him. I will personally deal with anyone who will not listen to the messages the prophet proclaims on my behalf. But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die.’ (Deuteronomy 18:15-20 NLT)​

This truth, unknown to humans in the days of the week since Joshua, is also the reason I believe in the inspiration of our prophetess Ellen White. Though she herself did not understand this truth about the days of the week being from morning to morning during her lifetime, her writings know of the days of the week being from morning to morning, written for our understanding since the beginning in Genesis. The inspiration in her writings knows of the true days of the week since Genesis, making her inspiration the same inspiration that has been with us since the beginning of Genesis. God told us through her to pay attention to "when it is" that evening falls being "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath", but she did not understand "when it is" that evening falls when she "followed the people of God up to this time".

I saw that it is even so: “From even unto even, shall ye celebrate your Sabbath.” Said the angel: “Take the word of God, read it, understand, and ye cannot err. Read carefully, and ye shall there find what even is, and when it is.” I asked the angel if the frown of God had been upon His people for commencing the Sabbath as they had. I was directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath, and followed the people of God up to this time, but did not see that the Lord was displeased, or frowned upon them. I inquired why it had been thus, that at this late day we must change the time of commencing the Sabbath. Said the angel: “Ye shall understand, but not yet, not yet.” Said the angel: “If light come, and that light is set aside or rejected, then comes condemnation and the frown of God; but before the light comes, there is no sin, for there is no light for them to reject.” I saw that it was in the minds of some that the Lord had shown that the Sabbath commenced at six o'clock, when I had only seen that it commenced at “even,” and it was inferred that even was at six. I saw that the servants of God must draw together, press together. (Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, Page 116)​

As she tells us "directed back to the first rise of the Sabbath" in Genesis, I came to understand "when it is" that "evening" falls on the first day. As a Seventh-day Adventist educated in our history, I knew what the word translated as "evening" in our Bibles means in the original language: sunset or the setting of the sun. I understood in Genesis that you cannot have the sunset before having sunlight, placing the first "evening" after God said "let there be light". An "evening" can only occur after light and falls in the middle of the first day, in the special case of the first day, between first light to light again in the morning. Before the light, there was "darkness" and not an "evening". Those are different words that are not interchangeable.

Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. Then he separated the light from the darkness. God called the light “day” and the darkness “night.” And evening passed and MORNING came, marking the first day. (Genesis 1:3-5 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Dahveed]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! We are not in control of Jesus' forgiveness for our sins in a past event at the cross that gained Him the position as our High Priest to forgive or not forgive at His discretion. Jesus is in control of giving or not giving His forgiveness conditionally in obedience to the Eleven Commandments that remove sin.

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace 8 that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, 9 he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. Eph 1

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 11, 2023 at 12:27 pm EDT! Abraham put his faith in God, unlike his wife Sarah, who's decision to give Abraham a son through Hagar is compared to Judaism, by substituting what God promised with a human solution. Judaism put their faith in their substitute human "law", replacing what God asked with something easier for them to obey. Paul compares Judaism to Hagar, who is a human replacement for God's promise to give Abraham a son through Sarah, because Sarah did not have the faith to wait on God to fulfill His promise. Judaism's substitute human "law" cannot save you from sin because you are not obeying "all" of God's Eleven Commandments, which free you from sin. Jesus' forgiveness will not last long before you sin again if you fail to take advantage of His forgivenesses to grow out of your sin by putting forth the effort to "obey" God's Eleven Commandments, which set us free from sin when obeyed. We grow out of sin by obeying the Eleven Commandments like a child who learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. Judaism failed because they sabotaged what God asked, replacing His Ten Commandments with human "law". Making their obedience to human "law" not remove the sin that obeying God's Ten Commandments would have removed.

Jesus replied, “You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, for he wrote, ‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commandments from God.’ For you ignore God’s law/commandment and substitute your own tradition.” Then he said, “You skillfully sidestep God’s law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) in order to hold on to your own tradition. For instance, Moses gave you this law(nomos)/commandment(entolé) from God: ‘Honor your father and mother,’ and ‘Anyone who speaks disrespectfully of father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say it is all right for people to say to their parents, ‘Sorry, I can’t help you. For I have vowed to give to God what I would have given to you.’ In this way, you let them disregard their needy parents. And so you cancel the word of God in order to hand down your own tradition. And this is only one example among many others.” (Mark 7:6-13 NLT fixed)​

The many forgivenesses for sin in disobedience to the Ten Commandments would have made them obedient had they put the effort to obey God instead of the substitute human "law" that did not remove the sin of disobeying the Ten Commandments, replacing God's "order" through the prophets, which would have removed their sin. We can grow out of sin by obeying God because of Jesus' daily forgivenesses as our High Priest. Those who do not take advantage of Jesus' many forgivenesses to grow out of their sins will die because of their sin, having wasted the opportunity Jesus gave them through His many forgivenesses when Jesus calls to account the wasted time of grace before judgment to allow you to grow out of your sin. Paul tells us in the following passage that to remain a "slave" to sin leads to death and only through obedience to God can you be free from your slavery to sin. For example, Judaism is cursed because instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. We do the same thing Judaism did by replacing the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment with Sunday, started by the bishops of Rome, replacing what God asks with human tradition that does not remove the sin that leads to death.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (of humans in Judaism), does that mean we can go on sinning (disobeying the Eleven Commandments)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace in the Father putting Jesus as our High Priest)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), which leads to death (like Judaism's sabotage of not obeying "all" of God's Ten Commandments), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments that remove sin), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments that remove sin)! Once you were slaves of sin (disobeying the Eleven Commandments), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Brother, may you prosper and be in good health!

This passage came to my mind

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:23-24 - New Living Translation

And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit. It was recorded for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

www.biblegateway.com

United in searching God's word!

 

[guevaraj]

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us. With all wisdom and understanding, he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment—to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. Eph 1

And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit. It was recorded for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. (Romans 4:23-24 NLT)

Brothers, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 18, 2023 at 12:19 pm EDT! You must "believe" Jesus' words in the following passage that it is "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments and not "forgiveness" for disobeying the Eleven Commandments in the past that overcomes your sinful nature! Forgiveness of disobeying the Eleven Commandments gives you the opportunity to grow up in "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments, but it is "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments that overcomes your sinful nature when the Eleven Commandments are obeyed. Only "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments overcomes your sinful nature! Obedience without forgiveness does not save you from punishment for your past sins of having disobeyed the Eleven Commandments. You cannot say that you have saved yourself by obeying the Eleven Commandments, because that is not possible without Jesus' forgiveness for disobeying the Eleven Commandments in the past. The need for forgiveness for past disobedience to the Eleven Commandments you could not have achieved without Jesus. Forgiveness for past disobedience of the Eleven Commandments is a gift of God that allows you to overcome your sinful nature through the practice of obedience to the Eleven Commandments. Obedience through practice made possible by Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest in the true heavenly temple for which the earthly was a temporary stand-in copy of the true one in heaven.

“If you love me, obey my commandments (plural meaning "all" of the Eleven Commandments). And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate, who will never leave you. He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth. The world cannot receive him, because it isn’t looking for him and doesn’t recognize him. But you know him, because he lives with you now and later will be in you. No, I will not abandon you as orphans—I will come to you. Soon the world will no longer see me, but you will see me. Since I live, you also will live. When I am raised to life again, you will know that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. Those who accept my commandments (plural meaning "all" of the Eleven Commandments) and obey them (unlike Judaism sabotage of the Ten Commandments) are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.” (John 14:15-21 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel that displays the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 2 Cor 4

The "veil" in Judaism removed by Jesus shows that you must "obey" God and not instead "obey" any substitute human tradition for what God asked. Only God knows how to overcome your sinful nature through "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments. What Judaism does not understand is that their substitute human "law" does not make them "obedient" to God. Only obeying the Eleven Commandments overcomes the sinful nature and their substitute human "law" does not overcome the sinful nature that leads to death. For example, Judaism is perishing, blinding the minds of unbelievers with human "law" substituting what God asked. For example, instead of obeying God by learning to use His name properly, Judaism replaced God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, thus disobeying to learn to use God's name properly. We do the same thing Judaism did by replacing the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment with Sunday, started by the bishops of Rome, replacing what God asks with human tradition that does not remove the sin that leads to death.

Well then, since God’s grace has set us free from the law (humans have added to Judaism replacing God's Ten Commandments with human "law"), does that mean we can go on sinning (by disobeying the Ten Commandments)? Of course not (don't misunderstand God's grace in the Father putting Jesus as our High Priest to give you as many chances as you need to grow in obedience to the Eleven Commandments)! Don’t you realize that you become the slave of whatever you choose to obey (sin or God)? You can be a slave to sin (by disobeying the Ten Commandments), which leads to death (like Judaism's sabotage of not obeying "all" of God's Ten Commandments by replacing them with human "law"), or you can choose to obey God (Eleven Commandments that remove sin), which leads to righteous living (freedom from sin). Thank God (Jesus' many forgivenesses as our High Priest allowing us to grow in obedience through practice of the Eleven Commandments that remove sin)! Once you were slaves of sin (disobeying the Ten Commandments), but now you wholeheartedly obey this teaching we have given you (of obeying a total of Eleven Commandments). Now you are free from your slavery to sin (when you obey Jesus' Eleven Commandments), and you have become slaves to righteous living (obeying the Eleven Commandments). (Romans 6:15-18 NLT overlaid with commentary)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

You must "believe" Jesus' words...

Hi brother!

The passage I quoted says,
''...God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead."

I agree that we want to follow Jesus's words, but that's not what that particular passage is about.

Peace be with you, my brother!

 

[Leaf473]

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 11:33 - New Living Translation

Oh, how great are God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!

www.biblegateway.com

 

[guevaraj]

I agree that we want to follow Jesus's words, but that's not what that particular passage is about.

Brother, it is written in the following passage what kind of belief made God count Abraham "righteous". It was Abraham's "obedient" belief in God to the point of his willingness to sacrifice his only son Isaac and not God's "forgiveness" that made Abraham have the "faith" that made him "righteous" before God. Judaism does not share this faith of Abraham when they substitute God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, disobeying to use God's name properly. We equally, to Judaism, do not share this faith of Abraham when we substitute God's Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment with our own human tradition of Sunday, started by the bishops of Rome, having us disobey the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment.

You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

Brother, it is written in the following passage what kind of belief made God count Abraham "righteous". It was Abraham's "obedient" belief in God to the point of his willingness to sacrifice his only son Isaac and not God's "forgiveness" that made Abraham have the "faith" that made him "righteous" before God. Judaism does not share this faith of Abraham when they substitute God's Third Commandment with their own human "law" to not utter God's name at all, disobeying to use God's name properly. We equally, to Judaism, do not share this faith of Abraham when we substitute God's Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment with our own human tradition of Sunday, started by the bishops of Rome, having us disobey the Sabbath in the Fourth Commandment.

You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless? Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete. And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” He was even called the friend of God. So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone. (James 2:19-24 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Hi brother, good to hear from you again!

That's right, Abraham was shown to be righteous. That's when other people could see that Abraham's sins were forgiven, that is, that he was declared righteous.

If we say that Abraham was not actually righteous until he was about to sacrifice Isaac, that creates a real issue with this passage imo

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:10 - New Living Translation

But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

www.biblegateway.com

Abraham was counted righteous before he was circumcised. That was before Isaac was born, if I remember right.

May the Lord bless you and keep you!

 

[Gary K]

Hi brother, good to hear from you again!

That's right, Abraham was shown to be righteous. That's when other people could see that Abraham's sins were forgiven, that is, that he was declared righteous.

If we say that Abraham was not actually righteous until he was about to sacrifice Isaac, that creates a real issue with this passage imo

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:10 - New Living Translation

But how did this happen? Was he counted as righteous only after he was circumcised, or was it before he was circumcised? Clearly, God accepted Abraham before he was circumcised!

www.biblegateway.com

Abraham was counted righteous before he was circumcised. That was before Isaac was born, if I remember right.

May the Lord bless you and keep you!

Do you have the faith of Abraham so that you obey when it's hard to obey like Abraham did when God asked him to sacrifice his son. his only son?

 

[Dahveed]

Brothers, happy Sabbath, starting this Friday August 18, 2023 at 12:19 pm EDT! You must "believe" Jesus' words in the following passage that it is "obedience" to the Eleven Commandments and not "forgiveness" for disobeying the Eleven Commandments in the past that overcomes your sinful nature!

All of us also lived among them at one time relying on how well you endeavored to keep the commandments and were by nature children of wrath. (Eph 2)

The Eleven Commandments is a gift of God that allows you to overcome your sinful nature through the practice of obedience to the Eleven Commandments.

Again, how did you receive the gift of the Spirit, was it by your endeavor to keep the "11 commandments" or was it by faith?

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:
“See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble and a rock that makes them fall,
and the one who believes in him will never be put to shame.” Rom 9

 

[NewLifeInChristJesus]

Do you have the faith of Abraham so that you obey when it's hard to obey like Abraham did when God asked him to sacrifice his son. his only son?

I am a little put off at the wording of this question, since it ignores that Abraham's faith was in God's promise that Isaac would be his heir. He was obedient because he believed God would raise Isaac from the dead in order to fulfil His promise that Isaac would be his heir. Besides, one must always be careful with extending this story to people today because we don't want crazy people going around killing their children because God told them to do it.

 

[Leaf473]

Do you have the faith of Abraham so that you obey when it's hard to obey like Abraham did when God asked him to sacrifice his son. his only son?

Yes. As it is written,

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:23-24 - New Living Translation

And when God counted him as righteous, it wasn’t just for Abraham’s benefit. It was recorded for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Leaf473]

I am a little put off at the wording of this question, since it ignores that Abraham's faith was in God's promise that Isaac would be his heir. He was obedient because he believed God would raise Isaac from the dead in order to fulfil His promise that Isaac would be his heir. Besides, one must always be careful with extending this story to people today because we don't want crazy people going around killing their children because God told them to do it.

I hear what you're saying. My sense is that we believe that God raised Jesus from the dead

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 4:24-25 - New Living Translation

for our benefit, too, assuring us that God will also count us as righteous if we believe in him, the one who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. He was handed over to die because of our sins, and he was raised to life to make us right with God.

www.biblegateway.com