What do Orthodox think of Worship Music?

[HTacianas]

That's fine, but the Psalms are a lot older than the 100s.



We could debate this, but I did not come here to debate with Orthodox people here.

You can post it in the debate forum.

St. Justin Martyr's Corner: Debate an Orthodox Chr

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[ArmyMatt]

Well, that is true that those people worshipped before the Psalms came about. But then what is the purpose of the Psalms?

they are theological meditations, prayers, hymns that were incorporated into the already existing worship, but not the blueprint itself. in fact, we Orthodox still read the entire psalter weekly (aside from Lent when it’s twice weekly) in the full order, and that doesn’t include the psalms that are a part of the established services.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Help me understand how when David wrote the Psalms that he was not worshipping God. If he was, then why can't we still do that today?

how did God tell His people to worship Him? what did they always do in the Tabernacle and Temple?

 

[ArmyMatt]

That's fine, but the Psalms are a lot older than the 100s.

and the worship practices given to Moses are a lot older than the Psalms.

 

[All Becomes New]

@ArmyMatt,

I would contend that God wants our hearts more than our sacrifices. Plenty of things in the prophets that say just that. That is why Christ Himself says, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice."

 

[ArmyMatt]

@ArmyMatt,

I would contend that God wants our hearts more than our sacrifices. Plenty of things in the prophets that say just that. That is why Christ Himself says, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice."

agreed, but that’s not what’s being discussed.

 

[All Becomes New]

agreed, but that’s not what’s being discussed.

I appreciate that you are willing to find an area of agreement with me. The next question would be what does it mean to worship with our whole hearts. This is perhaps unnecessary here since we have already found an area of agreement. If you choose not to engage and further, I would understand.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I appreciate that you are willing to find an area of agreement with me. The next question would be what does it mean to worship with our whole hearts. This is perhaps unnecessary here since we have already found an area of agreement. If you choose not to engage and further, I would understand.

how does God say to worship Him?

 

[All Becomes New]

how does God say to worship Him?

"Jesus told her, “Believe me, woman, an hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, because salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth.”" (John 4:21–24)

In spirit and truth. That is my answer.

 

[ArmyMatt]

"Jesus told her, “Believe me, woman, an hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know. We worship what we do know, because salvation is from the Jews. But an hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and in truth. Yes, the Father wants such people to worship him. God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and in truth.”" (John 4:21–24)

In spirit and truth. That is my answer.

right, but how does He show us to worship Him truly?

 

[All Becomes New]

right, but how does He show us to worship Him truly?

Well, you have rejected the Psalms, so I am not sure. Maybe you can tell me?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, you have rejected the Psalms, so I am not sure. Maybe you can tell me?

I don’t reject the psalms at all, you asserted they are the blueprint for worship. THAT I do reject. plus I said in the Orthodox Church, the full order calls for the entire book of psalms to be read weekly, twice a week during Lent, and the form a large chunk of every service we do.

to answer your question, what does He tell Moses to do, and what do the Apostles do?

 

[E.C.]

Hi.

I am just wondering what the Orthodox (and variants) think of traditional contemporary worship music that is sung in many Evangelical churches today? I understand that the Orthodox generally do chants (which are beautiful!) but what do Orthodox think of contemporary worship music?

Here is one that I like (especially the lyrics):

Personally, I find most of the Evangelical stuff cringey and creepy. Jesus Christ is our savior, not our "buddy". The Doobie Brothers' song "Jesus is Just Alright With Me" is great for a road trip, but awful for worship. A lot of this sort of music I believe was born out of the Jesus People movement of the 1960s (long before my time, but it would make sense) so that they could appeal to the hippies.

To add to it, some of those artists are frankly just as arrogant as secular artists. Just because they sing that Christ is awesome doesn't automatically make them saints. A childhood friend of mine lost his faith over how one of those artists treated people after a concert.

A lot of this music reminds me of the pharisee when we should be more like the publican.

Someone commented once that attending the Liturgy is to attend a worship service, but attending a protestant service is more of a concert followed by a lecture.

I went to a Presbyterian service once and saw Evangelical services in "Jesus Camp", it checks out.

 

[All Becomes New]

I don’t reject the psalms at all, you asserted they are the blueprint for worship. THAT I do reject. plus I said in the Orthodox Church, the full order calls for the entire book of psalms to be read weekly, twice a week during Lent, and the form a large chunk of every service we do.

to answer your question, what does He tell Moses to do, and what do the Apostles do?

Okay, so you are very familiar with the Psalms then. I do not know for that reason why it is so difficult for you to see David's prayers and music as a viable way to worship (with emotion).

I am not sure what you are referring to Moses and the Apostles so you will have to tell me if that is alright.

 

[All Becomes New]

Personally, I find most of the Evangelical stuff cringey and creepy. Jesus Christ is our savior, not our "buddy". The Doobie Brothers' song "Jesus is Just Alright With Me" is great for a road trip, but awful for worship. A lot of this sort of music I believe was born out of the Jesus People movement of the 1960s (long before my time, but it would make sense) so that they could appeal to the hippies.

To add to it, some of those artists are frankly just as arrogant as secular artists. Just because they sing that Christ is awesome doesn't automatically make them saints. A childhood friend of mine lost his faith over how one of those artists treated people after a concert.

A lot of this music reminds me of the pharisee when we should be more like the publican.

Well, that is not very charitable.

Yes, much of the worship music today came out of the Jesus Revolution of the 60s and 70s. I'm not sure why that is a problem.

And you are right that people are people regardless of what they believe. This is a universal. Not just some people are like this. For example, I would never say I am without sin. That would be arrogant and would betray the Apostle John in his letter to Ephesus in 1 John 1:8.

I'm not sure I get the connection that contemporary worship music is more like the Pharisees than a publican. Could you explain what you mean about this more?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Okay, so you are very familiar with the Psalms then. I do not know for that reason why it is so difficult for you to see David's prayers and music as a viable way to worship (with emotion).

I am not sure what you are referring to Moses and the Apostles so you will have to tell me if that is alright.

worship is always centered around a communal offering with God. that’s what God told Moses, it’s what Christ did, and it’s what the Apostles did.

 

[All Becomes New]

worship is always centered around a communal offering with God. that’s what God told Moses, it’s what Christ did, and it’s what the Apostles did.

Yes, I would certainly say that offering to God is a very common way in the Bible that we worship God. I do not think it is always though, unless you want to count offering ourselves in worship, but then I can't see why contemporary worship can't do that. Not just that it usually doesn't but that it cannot do it.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Yes, I would certainly say that offering to God is a very common way in the Bible that we worship God. I do not think it is always though, unless you want to count offering ourselves in worship, but then I can't see why contemporary worship can't do that. Not just that it usually doesn't but that it cannot do it.

aside from making an offering, what does the Bible say worship is? like what is actually commanded by God in Scripture?

 

[All Becomes New]

aside from making an offering, what does the Bible say worship is? like what is actually commanded by God in Scripture?

To worship in spirit and truth, as I said earlier. I think David was worshipping in spirit and truth. I think he gives a good demonstration of how to talk to God.

I also know Apostle Paul said, "Greet one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs."

I cannot think of many other places in the NT where were are told exactly how to worship. That does not mean that there is none, only that I am drawing a blank on a prescriptive methodology on how to worship in the NT.

 

[Plenipotent]

I'm currently denomination-less, but I want to share my thoughts on the music at the church I attend as a new Christian who grew up surrounded by it. While I enjoy Christian music and have no issue with its performance, personally, I find it distracting and it negatively impacts my Sunday service. I believe that worship should be a deeply meaningful experience, and for me, the current music setup doesn't align with that.

Our service dedicates a significant portion of time to a musical performance. A one hour service is begun with 30 minutes of music, complete with elaborate visuals and lyrics on a screen. Initially, I thought memorizing the songs could help me connect with worship, but I often find myself just following along without truly engaging spiritually. The lack of explanation on how to worship this way leaves me completely lost, and the frequent introduction of new songs makes it challenging to remember lyrics.

"Please stand up and worship with us." To me, is a call to action, yet I find myself standing for those 30 minutes, gazing at the screen amidst the atmospheric lights, pondering what's actually unfolding. I'm attempting to decipher the unfamiliar song lyrics, all the while questioning how this aligns with worship.

The music presentation feels more like a show to entertain people rather than fostering genuine worship. In my mind, it seems to prioritize being trendy rather than creating a space for a meaningful connection with God. I personally feel more connected during the pastor's sermon when I'm reflecting on the word of God.

For me, the music becomes a distraction from my relationship with God. I would prefer to spend more time on the message and scripture, even if it meant a shorter service. It's disheartening to consider skipping the first half of the service to maintain my focus on God and the pastor's message. I feel like I'm somehow being bad for not wanting to participate in it.

I understand that others may find worship through the music, and I'm genuinely happy for them. However, for me, it's a negative experience that feels more like a tactic to attract attendees rather than a genuine worship opportunity.