The Book of Enoch?

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

It's a game changer once you find out / realize that Stars are Literally Angels both Fallen and Holy :

The Nephilim (fallen angels) messing with genetics and mixing with animals and humans is what created Dinosaurs / Centaurs / The Titans etc. before Noah’s Flood :

Stegosaurus carving at 800 year old Ta Prohm Temple in Cambodia :

 

[The Liturgist]

I'm guessing you're not Orthodox because in the Orthodox church we do not read Revelation at all Liturgically. It's in our Bibles, but we never read it Liturgically.

The Coptic Orthodox (you did not specify Eastern Orthodox, and therefore I will include them as Oriental Orthodox, who are in a state of limited intercommunion with the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria and also have good relations with the Church of Sinai*) do read it liturgically on the afternoon of Holy Saturday, while Eastern Orthodox Athonite monks also read it albeit in a more informal setting, at the same time.

*This is an autonomous church under the omophorion of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem, whose Archbishop is the Hegumen of St. Catharine’s Monastery, which represents most of the Church of Sinai, although I have heard they have a few chapels elsewhere on the peninsula that occasionally operate, and the monastery itself provides health care to several Bedouin tribes, and some of these Bedouins are possibly Christian; this ministry also helps safeguard the monastery from terrorist attack. Although pilgrimages remain dangerous; in the past few years incidents such as a bus filled with pilgrims traveling to St. Anthony’s Monastery (which is Coptic Orthodox) was blown up I think by an RPG or other extremely violent attack while en route, granting everyone on board the destroyed bus a crown of martyrdom.

 

[Yekcidmij]

It's a game changer once you find out / realize that Stars are Literally Angels both Fallen and Holy :

Well, it is at least rare to find someone that sees this in the book and also believes it. Indeed, the Book of Enoch does present the stars as being literal angels. The bad angels/stars transgressed the "sacred" calendar of that community by not showing up at their appointed times - ie, in accordance with a 364 day solar calendar. Most people miss this observation and get fixated on other things.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Well, it is at least rare to find someone that sees this in the book and also believes it. Indeed, the Book of Enoch does present the stars as being literal angels. The bad angels/stars transgressed the "sacred" calendar of that community by not showing up at their appointed times - ie, in accordance with a 364 day solar calendar. Most people miss this observation and get fixated on other things.

Plus scriptures also convince me that stars are literally angels :

"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The Seven Stars Are The Angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."
- Revelation 1:20



"And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery Red Dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew A Third of The Stars Of Heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So The Great Dragon Was Cast Out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, And His Angels Were Cast Out With Him."
- Revelation 12:3-9

 

[Yekcidmij]

Plus scriptures also convince me that stars are literally angels :

"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The Seven Stars Are The Angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."
- Revelation 1:20

I doubt it. I would accept they could have been something like a metonym for the literal pastors/bishops of the 7 churches in Asia Minor.

 

[The Liturgist]

Plus scriptures also convince me that stars are literally angels :

"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The Seven Stars Are The Angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."
- Revelation 1:20



"And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery Red Dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew A Third of The Stars Of Heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So The Great Dragon Was Cast Out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, And His Angels Were Cast Out With Him."
- Revelation 12:3-9

Interesting to consider that the two churches which regard 1 Enoch as canon, namely the Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox Churches, do not interpret it literally, or believe the stars are angels, because of course they are using Alexandrian Christocentric typological-metaphorical-prophetic interpretation rather than Antiochene literal-historical interpretation on those passages, which is the only way to reconcile them with what we know about angels and reality. My friend @dzheremi who is of the closely related Coptic Orthodox Church may be able to confirm this.

Specifically, angels cannot literally be stars because spectrographic analysis of stars indicates they consist primarily of hydrogen, with older stars fusing heavier elements such as helium and carbon, and occasionally old stars die and new stars are born, and this has been observed within recorded history on multiple occasions, and we can also see the ejecta from stars which have exploded in a supernova. Since angels are spiritual and not material, and do not die, they cannot be stars, because we know stars are material, and have a finite existence.

I would note that it would be beneficial, given the Eastern Orthodox icon of the Last Judgement you are displaying in your signature, to learn the Alexandrian exegetical technique that is frequently, albeit not exclusively, used by the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox (I would argue the most important Eastern and Oriental Orthodox saints like the Three Holy Hierarchs, St. Athanasius the Great, St. Cyril of Alexandria, St. Jacob of Sarugh, St. Maximus the Confessor, St. Severus of Antioch, St. Ephrem the Syrian, St. Gregory of Nyssa and St. John Damascene, among others, used both techniques, and problems arose with the exegesis resulting from the strong Alexandrian favoritism of Origen and the strong Antiochene favoritism of Theodore of Mopsuestia, both of whom are anathema in the Eastern Orthodox Churches.

 

[Paul4JC]

Plus scriptures also convince me that stars are literally angels :

"The mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: The Seven Stars Are The Angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands which you saw are the seven churches."
- Revelation 1:20



"And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery Red Dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. His tail drew A Third of The Stars Of Heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days.
And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. So The Great Dragon Was Cast Out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, And His Angels Were Cast Out With Him."
- Revelation 12:3-9

Amen, yes they are!

They sing. They praise God.​

[Job 38:7 NASB20] When the morning stars sang together And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
[Psa 148:3] Praise him, sun and moon; praise him, all you shining stars.

They fight!​

[Jdg 5:20] From the heavens the stars fought, from their courses they fought against Sisera.

They all have names.​

[Psa 147:4] He determines the number of the stars and calls them each by name.

They have splendor​

[1Co 15:41] The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another, and the stars another; and the star differs from star in splendor.

They fall from the sky, even to the earth.​

[Mar 13:25] the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'
[Rev 6:13 a] and the stars in the sky fell to earth,

They are referred to as being angels.​

[Rev 1:20 b] The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches…
[Rev 12:4a, 9b] Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. 9 … Satan) was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

They are also flames of fire​

[Psa 104:4] He makes winds his messengers, flames of fire his servants.

I was studying this last year and one possible conclusion is that the stars are some kind of abode of the angels. Just like our homes are in a way us, so the stars are the angels. There are inside the 3-Tier Biblical cosmology.

 

[Yekcidmij]

Amen, yes they are!

So on youre view, the star Proxima Centauri is not only sentient, but an angel?

 

[prodromos]

I was studying this last year and one possible conclusion is that the stars are some kind of abode of the angels. Just like our homes are in a way us, so the stars are the angels

How could you possibly come to such a conclusion?

 

[Paul4JC]

So on youre view, the star Proxima Centauri is not only sentient, but an angel?

Not my view. Bible view.

Can you also tell me the name of all the stars below? I took this pic a few weeks ago when I was in the mountains.

How could you possibly come to such a conclusion?

Did you have trouble reading the Bible verses above? Biblically stars are not the sun nor is there a (sol)ar system. The Mazzoroth is fixed by God.

 

[Paul4JC]

Stars, stars, stars!

It takes more effort not to understand 1 Enoch and certain parts of the Bible, than to understand.


1 Enoch 21:3 There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered: Enoch, wherefore do you ask; wherefore do you reason with yourself, and anxiously inquire? These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God; and are here bound, until the infinite number of the days of their crimes be completed.



[2Pe 2:4 ] For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell (5020. Tartaroó.) putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Jude 13b ; wandering (planEtai G410) stars (asteres 792) for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. [Jde 1:13 NASB]

Literary planet stars!

1 Enoch 18:14 And there I beheld seven stars, like great blazing mountains, and like spirits entreating me. 15 Then the angel said, This place, until the consummation of heaven and earth, will be the prison of the stars, and the host of heaven. 16 The stars which roll over fire are those which transgressed the commandment of God before their time arrived; for they came not in their proper season

Jude 6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day, [Jde 1:6 NASB]

Matt 25:30] And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[prodromos]

Did you have trouble reading the Bible verses above?

No trouble reading them at all. Still not seeing how you could come to such a conclusion.

 

[prodromos]

Not my view. Bible view

Just like the Bible view that trees clap their hands, and mountains and hills break into song.

 

[The Liturgist]

No trouble reading them at all. Still not seeing how you could come to such a conclusion.

Indeed, I don’t see how the text supports such an interpretation. That being said, in all fairness to @Paul4JC , his view, while unusual, does strike me as being a permissible theologoumemnon, provided he does not deny the personal physical human-like appearances of angels as mentioned in the Bible, except insofar as astronomical observation indicates the stars are gaseous bodies undergoing nuclear fusion, whereas it is the doctrine of the Church that the angels are bodiless.

I myself hold to an uncommon theologoumemnon of sorts that St. John the Beloved Disciple was the youngest of the apostles and probably between the ages of 12 and 15 during the ministry of our Lord, on the basis of our Lord’s conduct towards him and His making the Theotokos his adoptive mother, as this would explain his longevity, since he was still writing in the 90s (by which I literally mean the 90s and not the 1990s or indeed the Nifty Nineties as the 1890s were often called).

So I cannot fault anyone for holding to eccentric theologoumemna , provided their views are not heretical or contradictory to the Apostolic faith as defined by the interpretation of Scripture by the Fathers of the Church and the Ecumenical Councils.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The Book of Enoch has a Geocentric Cosmology so this thread will apply :

Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes

(Please Be Kind even if you don't agree so the thread stays open) • Ambrose: Worthy surely was he to stand forth as a man who might stay the course of the river, and who might say: “Sun, stand still,” and delay the night and lengthen the day, as though to witness his victory. Why? a blessing...

www.christianforums.com

 

[timewerx]

The Book of Enoch has a Geocentric Cosmology so this thread will apply :

Geocentric Early Church Writer Quotes

(Please Be Kind even if you don't agree so the thread stays open) • Ambrose: Worthy surely was he to stand forth as a man who might stay the course of the river, and who might say: “Sun, stand still,” and delay the night and lengthen the day, as though to witness his victory. Why? a blessing...

www.christianforums.com

That is if you thought the "Earth" being referred to is a planet.

If you're quite a study of astronomy, you'll read familiar features of Enoch's description of "Earth" from space. But these familiar features are not of a planet but of a galaxy.

Ofc, you shouldn't take every word Enoch says as literal due to his understandably very limited vocabulary in astronomy but to take things in the proper context or in the right perspective like would you be seeing literal "fruits" in outer space?

The Bible have often used the words "Stars" and "Angels" interchangeably to describe the same object or being. Treat the same matter the same in reading the Book of Enoch.

Enoch have also described our place of abode as a tree (similar to what the Norse Myths refer to as the "World Tree") which is also describing the same thing - the galaxy that we live in which does looks like a huge glowing tree at night.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

The Bible have often used the words "Stars" and "Angels" interchangeably to describe the same object or being. Treat the same matter the same in reading the Book of Enoch.

That's the thing though, Stars Are Angels.

That's why people "Wish Upon A Star" because that's literally the being making the wish come true for them. And it's also the reason why occultists draw "Stars" in their rituals.


Once I figured this out, nothing was ever the same in my view of reality and I saw how the whole world is pretty much deceived under a demonic hypnosis believing that they are spinning around the sun.

 

[prodromos]

That's the thing though, Stars Are Angels

Rather, they are used as symbols of angels.

 

[timewerx]

That's the thing though, Stars Are Angels.

That's why people "Wish Upon A Star" because that's literally the being making the wish come true for them. And it's also the reason why occultists draw "Stars" in their rituals.

Once I figured this out, nothing was ever the same in my view of reality and I saw how the whole world is pretty much deceived under a demonic hypnosis believing that they are spinning around the sun.

I think you misunderstood the context of my post.

I wasn't referring to Earth as a tiny little planet but as a huge galaxy (The Milky Way Galaxy) A hundred thousand light years across.

So I don't exactly believe in "Geocentricity". Sure I may believe that the Sun is orbiting "Earth". But speaking of Earth as a galaxy, not as a planet.

It doesn't detract at all from hard-science astronomy. The only difference is the Book of Enoch referring to massive heavenly bodies also as living and intelligent beings.