UFOs

[SeventhFisherofMen]

What I am responding to is the claim that Jesus told the person that He has a number of creations, which imply that the creation of this universe is not the only one. This is not mentioned anywhere in the Bible, which is God's complete record of everything He has and will say to mankind. Therefore I conclude that the Jesus of the Bible will never tell anyone about multiple creations outside of our universe. Therefore your Scripture quotes are irrelevant. A better Scripture would be: "Believe not every spirit to test the spirits to see whether they are of God." There are quite a number of theories about what happens when a person has a near death experience, and the evidence shows that not every near death experience is one that does not involve a residual image in the brain.

But having said that, one medical expert wrote a message on the upside of a ceiling girder in the medical room. If someone came out of what they said was a near death experience that involved them leaving their bodies, he asked them what was written on the top of the girder. The ones that correctly answered were the ones the researcher acknowledged was having a true near death experience.

the Scripture verses you have quoted are out of their normal context and cannot describe anyone who has doubts about near death experiences, or whether it was the real Jesus or not who has said things, especially things that are spoken that are not mentioned anywhere in Scripture.

to assume everything Jesus ever did is written on The Bible is to limit God.

Jesus did countless things that I haven't included here. And if every one of his works were written down and described one by one, I suppose that the world itself wouldn't have enough room to contain the books that would have to be written!

John 21:25

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

to assume everything Jesus ever did is written on The Bible is to limit God.

Jesus did countless things that I haven't included here. And if every one of his works were written down and described one by one, I suppose that the world itself wouldn't have enough room to contain the books that would have to be written!

John 21:25

But people can't use that to make up stuff out of their own head and say that Jesus did it although not written in the Bible. There is a penalty for adding to what is written in the Bible. To say that Jesus created other universes is to add to the Scripture, and the Scripture clearly says that if anyone adds to the Scriptural record then God will add plagues to them.

 

[Lost Witness]

Fallen angels imo

 

[BobRyan]

But people can't use that to make up stuff out of their own head and say that Jesus did it although not written in the Bible. There is a penalty for adding to what is written in the Bible. To say that Jesus created other universes is to add to the Scripture,

True.

But the Bible does say He created worlds

 

[BobRyan]

What I am responding to is the claim that Jesus told the person that He has a number of creations, which imply that the creation of this universe is not the only one.

How about all of God's creations are in this one universe?

So then in Heb 1 and Heb 11 Christ "created the Worlds" -- all in this one universe

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

True.

But the Bible does say He created worlds

That quote comes from the LDS book Moses. It supports the doctrine that there are other worlds in the universe where each LDS person can be its own God. Can you find where it says anything like that in the Bible?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said:

True.

But the Bible does say He created worlds

That quote comes from the LDS book Moses. It supports the doctrine that there are other worlds in the universe where each LDS person can be its own God. Can you find where it says anything like that in the Bible?

The LDS doctrine is not in the Bible

But the Bible says Jesus created worlds.

Heb 11:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Heb 1:God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

This doe not change Christian doctrine any more than saying "God also created sinless angels -- not just Adam and Eve" and that Angels do not originate from New Jersey or anywhere else on Earth.

 

[friend of]

BobRyan said:

True.

But the Bible does say He created worlds

The LDS doctrine is not in the Bible

But the Bible says Jesus created worlds.

Heb 11:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Heb 1:God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

This doe not change Christian doctrine any more than saying "God also created sinless angels -- not just Adam and Eve" and that Angels do not originate from New Jersey or anywhere else on Earth.

Isn't the worlds just talking about other planets? Or are you suggesting God created other earth like planets with same or similar purposes as Earth?

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

BobRyan said:

True.

But the Bible does say He created worlds

The LDS doctrine is not in the Bible

But the Bible says Jesus created worlds.

Heb 11:
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good testimony.
3 By faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that the things which are seen were not made of things which are visible.

Heb 1:God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;

This doe not change Christian doctrine any more than saying "God also created sinless angels -- not just Adam and Eve" and that Angels do not originate from New Jersey or anywhere else on Earth.

The Bible doesn't say "universes". We know that among the billions of stars there are solar systems consisting of numbers of worlds. But according to astronomers who have studied the known planets, none have been seen to be able to support animal or human life. Perhaps there may be worlds that turn out to be able to support bacterial life forms but that's about all. Maybe there are some planets that might have grass on them, but to date no planet has been discovered that has the criteria and conditions that would support animal or human life. So until there are further discoveries that reveal the contrary, our planet earth remains unique in the full known extent of the universe.

 

[timewerx]

Isn't the worlds just talking about other planets? Or are you suggesting God created other earth like planets with same or similar purposes as Earth?

In my understanding of the Bible:

Worlds = other galaxies or universes

Angels = stars

Nations = planets inhabited by intelligent/sentient life

Nation + its guardian angel = star + planet system or other solar systems hosting intelligent life.

Earth = Milky Way galaxy = flat, has edges, "four corners" (the four arms or the four quadrants), "four winds" (may also be the four arms of the galaxy). The ancient swastika may very well represent our galaxy or the center of our galaxy with gaseous clouds arranged in four arm formation.

The alien+gov agenda is to keep the masses bottled up on this planet with the exception of elites and deep government players able to leave our planet if allowed to do so. So the true Christians are prevented from fulfilling their mission that is to make disciples of all nations to the ends of the Earth. Yes, to spread the message of truth across the galaxy.

 

[friend of]

Also, I'm someone who thinks Earth is the center of the Universe.

If not physically then attentionally.

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

The Bible doesn't say "universes". We know that among the billions of stars there are solar systems consisting of numbers of worlds. But according to astronomers who have studied the known planets, none have been seen to be able to support animal or human life. Perhaps there may be worlds that turn out to be able to support bacterial life forms but that's about all. Maybe there are some planets that might have grass on them, but to date no planet has been discovered that has the criteria and conditions that would support animal or human life. So until there are further discoveries that reveal the contrary, our planet earth remains unique in the full known extent of the universe.

we also used to think the Earth was flat until someone discovered that it is in fact round. People were so set that the Bible said the Earth was flat. If we base our understanding of the Universe on how far we can see when a telescope we're vastly limiting ourselves. We have to be willing to admit that we could not actually know everything that ever existed or that God ever did. I have yet to see a response to the verse:

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

John 21:25

 

[FaithT]

we also used to think the Earth was flat until someone discovered that it is in fact round. People were so set that the Bible said the Earth was flat. If we base our understanding of the Universe on how far we can see when a telescope we're vastly limiting ourselves. We have to be willing to admit that we could not actually know everything that ever existed or that God ever did. I have yet to see a response to the verse:

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

John 21:25

there are actually some people who still think the earth is flat

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

there are actually some people who still think the earth is flat

it's sad. honestly it's frustrating that things like dinosaurs are denied their existence and the earth is thought of as flat but we shouldn't let things discovered from advanced technology scare us as christians.

i understand certain things like the evolution that has no evidence or carbon dating that estimates a can from the 50's as being thousands of years old is flawed but there are still some truths to discoveries by science. when youtake the politics and bias out of the equation you are bound to find some truth.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

we also used to think the Earth was flat until someone discovered that it is in fact round. People were so set that the Bible said the Earth was flat. If we base our understanding of the Universe on how far we can see when a telescope we're vastly limiting ourselves. We have to be willing to admit that we could not actually know everything that ever existed or that God ever did. I have yet to see a response to the verse:

Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

John 21:25

What was written down about Jesus were examples, and the extra works that He did were consistent with what was recoded about Him. So to imply that Jesus did a whole lot of other stuff that was totally different to what He actually did, is speculation without foundation.

Seeing that this thread is about UFOs, and not a criticism about what I believe or don't believe about the universe in general (I do have the right to put my views whether you choose to believe them or not, and I don't care either way), the evidence shows that the 1% of unexplained sightings that are not hoaxes or mistake views of reflected light or the planet Venue, are real, but not physical. The evidence includes a lack of a sonic boom when objects travel over the speed of sound, and no sign of a glow of intense heat on the object as it travels at very high speed through the atmosphere, as would be the case of a physical object. When the space shuttle first enters the atmosphere, the glow of the superheated tiles on the front of the vehicle are clearly seen. No glow as appeared on any UFO when seen traveling at speed through the atmosphere. Also, where a UFO has crashed to earth, of which there has been a few reports, when the site is examined, the small crater that showed the point of impact is there, but no debris or bodies as would be evident in any plane crash.

Now, before you quote the Roswell incident, there is no real evidence that what is described about the actual space craft, debris, and bodies is open to question and has been discounted as untrue by many UFO researchers. Also, there is no evidence that Hangar 51 contains alien technology. It has been stated that Hangar 51 is a decoy, while the real secret stuff is housed elsewhere in an undisclosed location.

 

[BobRyan]

Isn't the worlds just talking about other planets?

When the Bible speaks of "the World" it is referring to this inhabited planets.

When it speaks of "worlds" we have to allow that same context for the term. If the Bible had spoken of "uninhabited planets" in some way and was using that same term - then that becomes a possibility.

Or are you suggesting God created other earth like planets with same or similar purposes as Earth?

God created this world, sinless, perfect , without suffering , without rebellion and with the tree of life such that Adam could "eat and live forever" Gen 3.

That is the only context we have "in the Bible" for a "Created world" so yes - allowing the Bible set its own context - then Heb 1 and Heb 11 do point to the possibility of sinless worlds, in full harmony with God, not fallen.

Not jumping in their spaceships and crash landing on earth with a big "oops!"

 

[BobRyan]

In my understanding of the Bible:

Worlds = other galaxies or universes

??? What part of the Bible leads you to suppose that when the Bible says "worlds" it is talking about other universes??

Earth = Milky Way galaxy

What part of the Bible leads you to say that?

 

[BobRyan]

The Bible doesn't say "universes". We know that among the billions of stars there are solar systems consisting of numbers of worlds. But according to astronomers who have studied the known planets, none have been seen to be able to support animal or human life.

In our own galaxy most of the properties of distant planets are only "inferred" -- very far from the idea of looking for animals on all the other planets in even our own galaxy. The can only make wild-guess inferences in the slim margin chance that a planet in a distant solar system transits its sun in perfect alignment with Earth so we can see various aspects of the light that passes through its atmosphere. So then highly unlikey that such a happy coincidence dictates that no other planets exist in that solar system or other solar systems.

"There are 5,484 known exoplanets, or planets outside the Solar System that orbit a star, as of August 1, 2023;"

List of nearest exoplanets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

How many planets in the universe -
The exact number of planets in the universe is unknown1. However, our Milky Way galaxy contains a minimum of 100 billion planets, with at least one planet for every star. It is estimated that there could be as many as 300 million potentially habitable planets in our galaxy

So of the estimated 100 billion in just this one galaxy -- we have "at least some" hint at 5584 -- and nothing that we are able to observe in the other galaxies due to our limited technology.

 

[FaithT]

it's sad. honestly it's frustrating that things like dinosaurs are denied their existence and the earth is thought of as flat but we shouldn't let things discovered from advanced technology scare us as christians.

i understand certain things like the evolution that has no evidence or carbon dating that estimates a can from the 50's as being thousands of years old is flawed but there are still some truths to discoveries by science. when youtake the politics and bias out of the equation you are bound to find some truth.

what about the can? I’ve never heard that.

 

[timewerx]

??? What part of the Bible leads you to suppose that when the Bible says "worlds" it is talking about other universes??

What part of the Bible leads you to say that?

You didn't read the rest of my post?

The descriptions I gave you of Earth - flat, has four corners, has four winds, has ends (edge) all came from the Bible. You need the verse references in the Bible?

Our galaxy fits all those descriptions plus one more thing, it also contains vast amounts of carbon-rich dust floating across it (solid remains of exploded or dead stars) something familiar to us as soil or 'earth'.

Also in the Book of Enoch. When Enoch was taken up away from Earth in outer space by an Angel of the Lord, he saw the whole Earth and the description he gave was that of a galaxy.

The way he also described the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life is also that of a galaxy. It could well be that Earth or the Milky Way galaxy and the Tree of Knowledge are all the same world or galaxy.

The "World Tree" in the Nordic myths also have resemblance to a galaxy. Some galaxies do look like giant trees in space.

It may seem utterly absurd that we are even living within the "Tree of Knowledge". Ironically, when Adam was described in the Book of Enoch, he wasn't originally a man of flesh. He used to be like a star shining brightly in space, a celestial body.

At the time when Adam had to make a choice between The Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life it may be a time of mingling of these two worlds of galaxies. Possibly the same time a third of the stars who rebelled against God were flung to the Earth. You can't flung a huge number of stars to planet but you can to a galaxy. And astronomers have deduced that Milky Way have "collided" with another galaxy eons ago, capturing some of its stars as a result.