Does man naturally have ability to Seek God ?

[RDKirk]

I think the issue is not whether man has a natural ability to seek God--I think scripture tells us clearly that man does not.

The question is whether God imparts in all men or only in some men the ability to seek Him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Why do you pull out texts then apply your bias to it to make it say what it does not say. There is NOTHING about God first regenerating men in either Acts17:26-27 and Acts 15:16-18.
Ps 65:4 does not speak of regeneration either. vs 2 says "To you all flesh shall come, v3 "you will provide atonement for them. We know from other scriptures that Christ atoned for the sins of the world, I John 2:2 and that God calls all men to repentance. Without regeneration, which you add, God(the Holy Spirit) works to call all men to Himself. The choosing is referring to the elect, those that believed in accepting the call to repentance. Nothing about regeneration in any of these texts.

Man naturally doesn't seek after the True God. But when God causes that's regeneration.

 

[Cassian]

Man naturally doesn't seek after the True God. But when God causes that's regeneration.

So you keep saying but I have not seen a text yet that shows God causes anyone to believe. The texts you cited do not say what you need them to say. So you just add your bias.
God in His sovereign will in creating man in His Image endowed man with a will. a rational soul that is independent of God. God does not, cannot force man's will. It would be against His will and destroys His characteristic - love. You make God impersonal, and a respecter of persons which is alien to His nature. You make God the author and participant of sin.
Your theology is not scriptural. I've given you texts that have refuted your view as well as historical record that your Calvinistic view has never been a view held prior to Calvin which is 1500 years after the beginning.
Also, you might learn something if you actually ever engage with any other poster. You give these inane remarks, like above which says nothing to further a discussion. I have never seen you even give some kind of an articulate response in support of your view as Calvin presents it.

 

[JLB777]

The correct answer is God. The word Jesus does not appear in the OT. Christ does not either but in three places the word SON is used, Ps2:7; Is 7:14; Is 9:6.

“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” Daniel 3:25



Also…


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6



Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is God the Father or the Son?






JLB

 

[Brightfame52]

So you keep saying but I have not seen a text yet that shows God causes anyone to believe. The texts you cited do not say what you need them to say. So you just add your bias.
God in His sovereign will in creating man in His Image endowed man with a will. a rational soul that is independent of God. God does not, cannot force man's will. It would be against His will and destroys His characteristic - love. You make God impersonal, and a respecter of persons which is alien to His nature. You make God the author and participant of sin.
Your theology is not scriptural. I've given you texts that have refuted your view as well as historical record that your Calvinistic view has never been a view held prior to Calvin which is 1500 years after the beginning.
Also, you might learn something if you actually ever engage with any other poster. You give these inane remarks, like above which says nothing to further a discussion. I have never seen you even give some kind of an articulate response in support of your view as Calvin presents it.

i dont care what you havent seen, you seen this Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Man naturally doesnt seek after the True God nor understands Him.

 

[Cassian]

“Look!” he answered, “I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.” Daniel 3:25



Also…


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6



Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is God the Father or the Son?

JLB

Obviously, you have not read my earlier post. It is not about knowing God. The issue is that those who lived in the OT times did not know Jesus or Christ. Neither one is ever mentioned in the OT. The words, Son of God is used three times. So, to say that OT believers believed in Jesus or Christ is not correct which was my point in my post.

 

[JLB777]

The issue is that those who lived in the OT times did not know Jesus or Christ.

This is totally false.


Would do you believe breathed the breath (Spirit) of life into Adam?

Who do you think walked with Abraham, Jacob, Moses ?

Who do you believe dwelt in and spoke through the prophets?


So sad that the Church doesn’t know such things.





JLB

 

[Cassian]

This is totally false.


Would do you believe breathed the breath (Spirit) of life into Adam?

Who do you think walked with Abraham, Jacob, Moses ?

Who do you believe dwelt in and spoke through the prophets?


So sad that the Church doesn’t know such things.





JLB

Such a shame that you cannot comprehend what I posted. Your comments are not even relevant to what I stated.

 

[Brightfame52]

Man by nature is without hope and without God !

Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

So therefore man naturally doesnt seek for the True God Rom 3:11. Man by nature is only a child of wrath Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So explain how one in this terrible shape, can seek after the True God ? He cant, and wont. Thats not to say man doesnt naturally seek after a god, but just not the True God !

How can a spiritually dead sinner exercise his so called freewill to choose God, when he is by nature without hope and without God ? Read Eph 2:20 once again. 18

 

[zoidar]

Man by nature is without hope and without God !

Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

So therefore man naturally doesnt seek for the True God Rom 3:11. Man by nature is only a child of wrath Eph 2:3

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

So explain how one in this terrible shape, can seek after the True God ? He cant, and wont. Thats not to say man doesnt naturally seek after a god, but just not the True God !

How can a spiritually dead sinner exercise his so called freewill to choose God, when he is by nature without hope and without God ? Read Eph 2:20 once again. 18

You seem much into preaching. Why not go out to the streets with the gospel. Just a suggestion. But you might already be doing that?

 

[Brightfame52]

You seem much into preaching. Why not go out to the streets with the gospel. Just a suggestion. But you might already be doing that?

Would you like to discuss what I stated ?

 

[zoidar]

Would you like to discuss what I stated ?

Hm, I don't think we will get very far. You even disagree with your Reformed friends about faith and works. But thanks for the invite! God bless!

 

[Brightfame52]

Hm, I don't think we will get very far. You even disagree with your Reformed friends about faith and works. But thanks for the invite! God bless!

okay np

 

[JLB777]

Such a shame that you cannot comprehend what I posted. Your comments are not even relevant to what I stated.

So sad you can’t answer these simple questions.


Would do you believe breathed the breath (Spirit) of life into Adam?

Who do you think walked with Abraham, Jacob, Moses ?

Who do you believe dwelt in and spoke through the prophets?


So sad that the Church doesn’t know such things.





JLB

 

[FredVB]

Humans have to make choices, they are certainly told that, so there is something we are doing, while God might be doing all other work for what is needed.

 

[Brightfame52]

Humans have to make choices, they are certainly told that, so there is something we are doing, while God might be doing all other work for what is needed.

Man naturally doesnt seek after the True God, so that's a choice they dont and cant make ! Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Also man being by nature dead to God, alienated from the life of God [spiritual life] cant make not one spiritual choice because dead spiritually.

 

[John Mullally]

Man naturally doesnt seek after the True God, so that's a choice they dont and cant make ! Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Also man being by nature dead to God, alienated from the life of God [spiritual life] cant make not one spiritual choice because dead spiritually.

While it’s true that fallen man does not seek after God, God seeks after us, positioning Himself “not far from each one of us,” all for the purpose that mankind “should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him.” (Acts 17:26-28).

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’​

Per Isaiah 55:6-7, God’s expectations are that the lost are very much able to “seek the LORD,” “call upon Him,” “forsake their way” and “turn to the Lord.” Surely, that doesn’t say much for Calvinism’s doctrine of Total Inability to receive the gospel. What would this mean in Calvinism? Would it mean that we should seek the Lord while we still have Irresistible Grace?

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts.Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.​

​

Calvinism creates these kinds of odd conundrums from thin air (where God predestines his favorites from before time to eternal life). When you examine the internet, the judgemental so called "discriminant ministries", are almost all Calvinist., It is odd to me that such a weak theology would set itself up as judge - the warning in Matthew 7:3-5 applies to Calvinists.

For Calvinists who wish to promote a doctrine of Total Inability, there is good and bad news. The good news is that it really is a doctrine found in the Bible. The bad news is that it reflects the doctrine of unrepentant Israel, which doctrine, God repudiated:

Jeremiah 18:11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’”13 Therefore this is what the Lord says: “Inquire among the nations: Who has ever heard anything like this?A most horrible thing has been done by Virgin Israel.​

 

[Brightfame52]

While it’s true that fallen man does not seek after God, God seeks after us, positioning Himself “not far from each one of us,” all for the purpose that mankind “should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him.” (Acts 17:26-28).

Acts 17:26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’​

Per Isaiah 55:6-7, God’s expectations are that the lost are very much able to “seek the LORD,” “call upon Him,” “forsake their way” and “turn to the Lord.” Surely, that doesn’t say much for Calvinism’s doctrine of Total Inability to receive the gospel. What would this mean in Calvinism? Would it mean that we should seek the Lord while we still have Irresistible Grace?

Isaiah 55:6 Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts.Let them turn to the Lord, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.​

​

Calvinism creates these kinds of odd conundrums from thin air (where God predestines his favorites from before time to eternal life). When you examine the internet, the judgemental so called "discriminant ministries", are almost all Calvinist., It is odd to me that such a weak theology would set itself up as judge - the warning in Matthew 7:3-5 applies to Calvinists.

For Calvinists who wish to promote a doctrine of Total Inability, there is good and bad news. The good news is that it really is a doctrine found in the Bible. The bad news is that it reflects the doctrine of unrepentant Israel, which doctrine, God repudiated:

Jeremiah 18:11 “Now therefore say to the people of Judah and those living in Jerusalem, ‘This is what the Lord says: Look! I am preparing a disaster for you and devising a plan against you. So turn from your evil ways, each one of you, and reform your ways and your actions.’ 12 But they will reply, ‘It’s no use. We will continue with our own plans; we will all follow the stubbornness of our evil hearts.’”13 Therefore this is what the Lord says: “Inquire among the nations: Who has ever heard anything like this?A most horrible thing has been done by Virgin Israel.​

When God seeks after a person, His Sheep, He finds them and saves them. But man by nature cant and doesnt seek after God, the True God that is Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Ezk 34:11-12

For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Except God seeks out a person and finds them, and delivers them, the persons are without hope !

 

[Doug Brents]

When God seeks after a person, His Sheep, He finds them and saves them. But man by nature cant and doesnt seek after God, the True God that is Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. Ezk 34:11-12

For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out.

As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day.

Except God seeks out a person and finds them, and delivers them, the persons are without hope !

Again and still you ignore clear Biblical statements that refute your understanding of Rom 3:11. Acts 17:7 says that God is not far from us, and set up the world so that we could and would seek Him, and find Him. The Romans quote of Ezekiel is being taken out of context by you, and perverted to mean what you want it to say, rather than what the Scriptures actually say.

 

[Brightfame52]

Again and still you ignore clear Biblical statements that refute your understanding of Rom 3:11. Acts 17:7 says that God is not far from us, and set up the world so that we could and would seek Him, and find Him. The Romans quote of Ezekiel is being taken out of context by you, and perverted to mean what you want it to say, rather than what the Scriptures actually say.

Man by nature doesnt seek after God, never has and never will, its a wrap Rom 3:11-12

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.