Hottest Week on Record, Hottest June, Record hottest days, Record Low Antarctic sea ice

[Landon Caeli]

The atmosphere is 6,000 miles high. Which is twice the distance from NY to LA... Not too tall.

The Kármán line is 60 miles from the surface, where "space" begins.

...Breathable air is only 3 miles high. Beyond that, we suffocate.

Earth's atmosphere is a thin band of air composed of five main layers. (Image credit: NASA)

 

[Pommer]

What catastrophe has hit us? When did this happen?

I was alive and well during the ozone freak outs. Well nothing happened. Certainly nothing even closely resembling a catastrophe.

Catastrophes are best viewed from outside.

 

[Pommer]

There have been periods of time when the planet was warmer and wetter

Were we H sapiens there too?
The planet will fare just fine, whether or not humans will be able to survive is another question altogether.

 

[Always in His Presence]

What catastrophe has hit us? When did this happen?

I ask the question above and this is your reply.

Catastrophes are best viewed from outside.

How does that come even vaguely close to answering my question?

 

[Pommer]

I ask the question above and this is your reply.

How does that come even vaguely close to answering my question?

You opined that you didn’t think you’ve seen anything that could be construed as catastrophic.
My point was that when viewed from inside a system that is about to trip over a tipping-point everything will still seem “pretty ‘normal’” until it’s not.

 

[That Guy 11200]

The earth is experiencing overall heating and that heating is causing record low temperatures?

How interesting

The Earth is experiencing overall heating and that heating is causing a reduction in the temperature differential between the cold Arctic waters and the warmer Atlantic waters, which reduces the strength of the Jet Stream - a ribbon of winds that flows around the Arctic Circle. This weaking leads to more extreme undulations in the Jet Stream, which bring cold Arctic air further south than would normally happen.

 

[QvQ]

Were we H sapiens there too?
The planet will fare just fine, whether or not humans will be able to survive is another question altogether.

The area in Nevada was the study of human remains in the caves and the evidence that the climate was much warmer and wetter which is why humans were thriving there.
There was an article recently that the Kalahari was once tropical wet and humans inhabited that area, supposedly the earliest humans.
Humans do well in warm wet, not so well in cold or dry.
It is thought that humans were in a bottle neck during the Ice Age, fewer than 10,000.
Humans are basically a tropical or desert creature if you study the migration patterns, always heavier around the equator or in tropical areas.
Where humans don't wear clothes is the best climate.
The planet could stand to warm up a bit to make man happy. It is a bit too cold for his natural self.

 

[Pommer]

The area in Nevada was the study of human remains in the caves and the evidence that the climate was much warmer and wetter which is why humans were thriving there.
There was an article recently that the Kalahari was once tropical wet and humans inhabited that area, supposedly the earliest humans.
Humans do well in warm wet, not so well in cold or dry.
It is thought that humans were in a bottle neck during the Ice Age, fewer than 10,000.
Humans are basically a tropical or desert creature if you study the migration patterns, always heavier around the equator or in tropical areas.
Where humans don't wear clothes is the best climate.
The planet could stand to warm up a bit to make man happy. It is a bit too cold for his natural self.

The tangle of-life that sustains and supports human habitation is far more complex than we might even know; will bees fare well in a hotter Earth?

 

[QvQ]

The tangle of-life that sustains and supports human habitation is far more complex than we might even know; will bees fare well in a hotter Earth?

Hard Cold Facts
1) There are 330 million people in the USA
2) Hunting gathering supported approx 9,000,000
3) Dry Farming failed.
4) Every bite you eat depends on
a) Water Pumps
b) Mechanical Harvesting Machinery
c) Semi Trucks to Deliver
Now, the government is dismantling that system.
That is a major threat to 330 million people.
If the government continues to ban energy sources we have for energy source we don't have the technology that supports life in the US will fail.
A US citizen does not live in a tropical paradise where the food falls off the trees.
We live in a very fragile technological envelope that is being dismantled in the name of climate change.
Ban diesel trucks? Great, but everything you have, Everything, is delivered by a truck...Then What?

 

[Pommer]

Hard Cold Facts
1) There are 330 million people in the USA
2) Hunting gathering supported approx 9,000,000
3) Dry Farming failed.
4) Every bite you eat depends on
a) Water Pumps
b) Mechanical Harvesting Machinery
c) Semi Trucks to Deliver
Now, the government is dismantling that system.
That is a major threat to 330 million people.
If the government continues to ban energy sources we have for energy source we don't have the technology that supports life in the US will fail.
A US citizen does not live in a tropical paradise where the food falls off the trees.
We live in a very fragile technological envelope that is being dismantled in the name of climate change.
Ban diesel trucks? Great, but everything you have, Everything, is delivered by a truck...Then What?

I’m hearing: “it’s going to be impossible to fix, what if we make things worse by trying?”
Enjoy your day.

 

[QvQ]

It is impossible to fix by government fiat and a window of 10 years.
Climate change is going to kill us all?
Starvation, freezing to death, dying of thirst is a bigger threat if this fragile technological envelope is dismantled by a government that governs by fiat.
Just ban diesel trucks by 2025 with nothing to replace them. Demand the manufacturers fulfill any impossible dream by waving the magic regulatory wand.

 

[USincognito]

And six months ago:

https://www.axios.com/2023/02/04/northeast-polar-vortex-record-cold

I'm old enough to remember when Rush claimed that the polar vortex was made up by liberals.

 

[Pommer]

It is impossible to fix by government fiat and a window of 10 years.
Climate change is going to kill us all?
Starvation, freezing to death, dying of thirst is a bigger threat if this fragile technological envelope is dismantled by a government that governs by fiat.
Just ban diesel trucks by 2025 with nothing to replace them. Demand the manufacturers fulfill any impossible dream by waving the magic regulatory wand.

We shan’t fix the climate problems here, on this thread, we agree.

 

[variant]

What catastrophe has hit us? When did this happen?

I was alive and well during the ozone freak outs. Well nothing happened. Certainly nothing even closely resembling a catastrophe.

That's because we did something about it.

 

[variant]

Great, evocative metaphor!

I'm modifying something I heard Kurt Vonnegut say.

Kilgore Trout once wrote a short story which was a dialogue between two pieces of yeast. They were discussing the possible purposes of life as they ate sugar and suffocated in their own excrement. Because of their limited intelligence, they never came close to guessing that they were making champagne.​

 

[USincognito]

What catastrophe has hit us? When did this happen?

I was alive and well during the ozone freak outs. Well nothing happened. Certainly nothing even closely resembling a catastrophe.

By "nothing" you mean we realized there was a problem, reacted to it, and prevented the situation from getting worse?

Whatever Happened to the Hole in the Ozone Layer?

The discovery of the ozone hole shocked the world and propelled nations into action. Decades later, where does the problem stand?

www.discovermagazine.com

Kind of the opposite of what we're doing with regard to AGW.

 

[USincognito]

Arizona and California had record breaking wet cold weather from June 2022 to May 2023.. Arizona had an inch of rain in May which hasn't been recorded since 1931. Last winter was cold with blizzards all across the northern tier.
So, nothing is said about the wet cold years. It doesn't fit the narrative.

Yeah. I remember when Al Gore said if it ever snows again I'm a liar.

A warming Pacific means more moisture in the atmosphere meaning rain and snowfall in the Western states and last year was a La Nina with a high pressure zone that wasn't in it's normal place.

https://wapo.st/3Ya908x

“The east Pacific high pressure that is so typical of La Niña winters shifted a bit to the west, which allowed the jet stream to dip very far to the south,” said Alexander Gershunov, a research meteorologist at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography in San Diego.

The resulting high-amplitude trough “sent a series of midlatitude cyclones often associated with atmospheric rivers into Central and Southern California,” he said. “This brought moisture and cold air — ingredients that resulted in extreme snow accumulations.”
In just over a decade, three notably wet California winters — 2011, 2017 and now 2023 — have unfolded during La Niña.​

There have been periods of time when the planet was warmer and wetter. There are fossil ferns in Northern Nevada where it is now dry desert
There have been periods of intense cold ..glaciers.

Are you suggesting climate scientists are too stupid to know about natural fluctuations in climate?

 

[USincognito]

Most of the "true believers" I have met who believe in "climate change"

Oh no! You called people who accept the science supporting AGW believers and put climate change in scare quotes. I guess that means it's all a hoax.

live in climate controlled buildings in cities.
Do you know the Date of the First Killing Frost in your area for the last 5 years? Do you know the date of the Last Killing Frost in your area for that period?
Do you know how much rainfall you received in June or December for that time period?
Last winter broke my records for the past 50 years for early/late frost, cold and precipitation.

This appears to be a variation on "it snowed, in Ohio, in February so therefore global warming is a hoax". You local conditions can be effected by global warming, but the earth's average temperature is 57°F. That's only 25°F above freezing. Even as we warm, there's still going to be cold conditions and winter precipitation.

It is also normal to have people from Vermont move to Arizona and then scream "Climate Change! It is 103 degrees"

That literally never happened.

It isn't one degree hotter than it has been in this area since records have been kept or even a .001% hotter. Just normal so far.

Neither did this.

 

[Landon Caeli]

I used to be hard-core against MMGW. Now I'm ready to re-look with an open mind based on the outcome of this thread... And decide for a second time.

Proselytize me!

 

[USincognito]

Now, the government is dismantling that system.

Could you provide a citation for this claim?

If the government continues to ban energy sources we have for energy source we don't have the technology that supports life in the US will fail.

What energy sources are being "banned"?

Ban diesel trucks? Great, but everything you have, Everything, is delivered by a truck...Then What?

The only bans I'm seeing are being implemented by states and they're working with engine and truck manufacturers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-solutions/2023/07/06/diesel-trucks-california-air-pollution/