Did Abraham observe the Sabbath day?

[SabbathBlessings]

No, Not ex 20. this where we differ (as does scripture). It is speaking of this

You mean God. God wrote the Ten Commandments Exodus 31:18, this is His works Exodus 32:16 that no man can improve upon as this is God eternal law, that defines sin when broken. Romans 7:7 Jesus teaches us to not break or teach others to break the least of the commandment again quoting from this eternal law Matt 5:19-30 that cannot be edited Deut 4:2 no adding no subtracting because man is not above God.

De 12:9 For ye are not as yet come to the rest and to the inheritance, which the LORD your God giveth you.

Joshua will cause them to inherit it.....
De 1:38 But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.
tribes inheriting on the other side of the Jordon could not rest until.....
Deut 3:18 And I commanded you at that time, saying, The LORD your God hath given you this land to possess it: ye shall pass over armed before your brethren the children of Israel, all that are meet for the war.
20 Until the LORD have given rest unto your brethren, as well as unto you, and until they also possess the land which the LORD your God hath given them beyond Jordan: and then shall ye return every man unto his possession, which I have given you.

An inheritance to them in the Abrahamic covenant.
De 31:23 And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.



No, it is a rest from war from all their enemies round about. the shadow of the rest in eternal inheritance........In Christ
Jos 21:43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.
44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

This is where many seem to get a bit lost. Rest does not always means the seventh day Sabbath. Inheritance rest Joshua gave to the Israelites was their rest into Canaan, not the seventh day Sabbath rest which is one of God’s commandments, which means it’s not a suggestion. Hebrews 4 is contrasting the Israelites and their disobedience which is rebellion Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 95:7-8 Hebrews 3:7-8 and we are told not to follow their same path of disobedience to receive our rest Hebrews 4:6, Hebrews 4:11 (not the Sabbath rest). The Israelites profaned the Sabbath commandment Eze 20:13, Eze 20:21 and it clearly tells us not to follow the same path of disobedience as the Israelites who broke one of God’s holy commandments and which is why the Sabbath rest (Hebrews 4:9 NIV) remains for God’s people. Again, the greek word here literally translates into Sabbath keeping.

God did not command Himself to give us rest, this is a false teaching leading people down the wrong path. Jesus is not a day, a commandment or is rest, He’s the Creator, not creation. He gives us rest and in His rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments, just peace Isaiah 48:18. Unrest are for those who worship in vain Rev 14:11 and Jesus defines this as keeping man’s rules above the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9. which we see as the antidote for not worshipping in vain (false worship) is keeping the commandments of God (true worship) and faith in Jesus. Rev 14:12. We are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24. We are not God, so it’s not up to us how to define sin, or what we should keep or not keep if we want to be a follower of Christ. Jesus kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 and all of the commandments of God John 15:10 and told us to as well and not to break or teach others to break the least of the commandments quoting from this same until of Ten Matt 5:19-30

You quote a lot of scripture that does not have context to this subject and do not interact with the scriptures that do. You want to put God’s eternal law in a box at Mt Sinai but that’s not an accurate view of God’s holy commandments, which is why there are all throughout the entire OT and NT, James saying if we break of these commandments again quoting from the Ten we break them all. James 2:10-12. The commandments define what sin is Romans 7;7 and without law there is no sin Romans 4:15 which means God’s law has always been and will always be Rev 11:19 along with the Sabbath that God hallowed Exodus 20:11 and all His saints will continue for worship for all eternity Isaiah 66:22-23. One of the last scriptures in the Bible before the Second Coming of Jesus Christ Rev 22:14-15 and scriptures tells us if we do not keep His commandments there is no truth in us 1 John 2:4 we should keep His commandments, not based on feelings, but based on faith In Jesus. He came not just to save us from our sins Matthew 1:21 (breaking God’s law) but lived to be the perfect example for us. 1 John 2:6. Jesus kept the Sabbath, He kept all of His Fathers commandments and we are to follow Him and not do what our first parents did or the Israelites Hebrews 4:11 Eze 20:13 and expect a different result. Which is why we have God’s Word so we can make better decisions. Psalms 119:105

 

[SuperCow]

Itemized lol? A law is a law. Does not matter if they are "itemized"...oy vey!
Shabbat Shalom!

As usual, that is not what I said.

I am asking YOU to itemize them, NOT the Bible, because YOU are the one saying they are there. the Bible can scatter things throughout, so it is much easier to believe you, if you tell me where they are, since you claim to know, even though you refuse to prove it.

 

[ralliann]

You mean God. God wrote the Ten Commandments Exodus 31:18, this is His works Exodus 32:16 that no man can improve upon as this is God eternal law, that defines sin when broken.

First of all The Mosaic covenant is not eternal. The covenant God made with Abraham is eternal.

This is where many seem to get a bit lost. Rest does not always means the seventh day Sabbath.

So what. Hebrews does. And it concerns Joshua.

Inheritance rest Joshua gave to the Israelites was their rest into Canaan, not the seventh day Sabbath rest which is one of God’s commandments, which means it’s not a suggestion.

The eternal Sabbath in the beginning, is only a shadow in Joshua. In Christ it is another day

Hebrews 4 is contrasting the Israelites and their disobedience which is rebellion Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 95:7-8 Hebrews 3:7-8 and we are told not to follow their same path of disobedience to receive our rest Hebrews 4:6, Hebrews 4:11 (not the Sabbath rest).

It is the rest of our inheritance in Christ. And it spoke in the context of Joshua, likened to Gods Sabbath rest of finishing all creation. It was all finished in the beginning. We can sit and go round and round with scripture, but I won't anymore. You can continue to make the Mosiac covenant eternal all you want. As far as I am concerned scripture is clear. The eternal inheritance is in the covenant before Sinai. Good day to you.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

It was a figure, like many of the earthly, worldly things. God finished all in the beginning. He created Heaven, and earth, and all in them. Hebrews speaks of an eternal Sabbath, not just a worldly day like the Mosaic Sinai covenant is.

There are "different" sabbaths, but we are discussing the weekly Sabbath instituted at the Creation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

As usual, that is not what I said.

I am asking YOU to itemize them, NOT the Bible, because YOU are the one saying they are there. the Bible can scatter things throughout, so it is much easier to believe you, if you tell me where they are, since you claim to know, even though you refuse to prove it.

I already posted the scriptures...from Genesis and repeated in Acts

 

[SuperCow]

I already posted the scriptures...from Genesis and repeated in Acts

No you didn't. You showed my one rule told to Noah about eating meat, and Acts doesn't mention Noah anywhere.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

First of all The Mosaic covenant is not eternal. The covenant God made with Abraham is eternal.

The Ten Commandments is separated from the Mosaic law. Only the Ten Commandments are inside the ark of the covenant that is in the Most Holy of God’s Temple and is in heaven, Rev 11:19 there is no scripture that ever says the commandments of God ended.

Jesus condemned those who keep their rules over the commandments of God quoting right from this unit of Ten. To deny Jesus didn’t teach or keep the commandments of God or they ended, is denying His very words. We are called to be like Jesus and follow His example 1 John 2:6, not to do something different.

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

This commandment that Jesus is teaching from came from the Ten Commandments in Exodus 20 where we are told we cannot add or subtract from. Deut 4:2 these are God’s works Exodus 32:16 and we are not greater than He.

Jesus even says this about those who do not believe Moses.

John 5:46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”

So what. Hebrews does. And it concerns Joshua.

It mentions Joshua, it also mentions David, both stories are being referenced- the story of Joshua was used an example of the Israelites in the wilderness who was delayed in entering their rest into Canaan and many never made it and we are told not follow their same path of disobedience Hebrews 4:6, Hebrews 4:11 and David quoting that it is rebellion to not listen to God and obey Him also using the example of the Israelites in the wilderness Hebrews 4:7, Psalms 95:7-8. If we allow the scripture to explain itself, it is a warning for us not to follow their same example so we can enter into our rest in Christ. In the rest in Christ there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments. The Sabbath commandment is not the same as Christ rest. Christ is not a commandment or is He rest- He is the Creator and our Creator commanded us to keep His Sabbath day holy, just like He commanded us to not murder, or worship other gods, covet or commit adultery. Breaking one of these commandments James says quoting from this same unit of Ten is like breaking them all. James 2:10-12. In Christ rest- we are obedient to Him and not in rebellion, this is the warning we are given in Hebrews. It’s not wise to think we can do what the Israelites did and profane God’s holy Sabbath day Eze 20:13, Eze 20:22 and expect a different result. The scripture is here for our learning and correction 2 Tim 3:16

The eternal Sabbath in the beginning, is only a shadow in Joshua. In Christ it is another day

Are you claiming the 4th commandment ended at the time of the Israelites? You have a lot of scripture to delete to make this argument work and you would need to find the scripture where God reversed His blessing on the Sabbath and where God reversed His command that we can freely edit His commandments.

It is the rest of our inheritance in Christ.

Agree, but as stated and as scripture shows Christ rest is not the seventh day Sabbath commandment. There is no rebellion to Christ and what He commandments in His rest, which is why He pleas with us daily to hear His voice and not rebel Hebrews 3:15, Hebrews 3:7-8

And it spoke in the context of Joshua, likened to Gods Sabbath rest of finishing all creation. It was all finished in the beginning. We can sit and go round and round with scripture, but I won't anymore. You can continue to make the Mosiac covenant eternal all you want. As far as I am concerned scripture is clear. The eternal inheritance is in the covenant before Sinai. Good day to you.

God’s Sabbath started at creation Genesis 2:1-3 before sin and it is God’s perfect way of living, which is why it never ends Isaiah 66:22-23. The Sabbath was created for man according to Jesus Mark 2:27 and man was created on the sixth day right before the first Sabbath. The Sabbath is a memorial to Creation so it’s not a shadow of anything as it points us to our Creator and shows we worship the one true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, the same Sabbath that God hallowed Exodus 20:11 because we are made in His image to follow him, not to do our own thing. There are many gods, but only one God who is capable of Creation and Sanctification and when we keep the Sabbath commandment it is a memorial to God and His sanctifying power because we cannot sanctify ourselves Eze 20:12 despite our best efforts we do not have that power, only God does.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No you didn't. You showed my one rule told to Noah about eating meat, and Acts doesn't mention Noah anywhere.

By your own definition, you said gentiles do not follow the laws of Sinai, so where else did the laws come from in Acts? Or are you changing your mind again? Acts 15...Genesis 2...Genesis 9...

 

[pasifika]

First of all The Mosaic covenant is not eternal. The covenant God made with Abraham is eternal.

So what. Hebrews does. And it concerns Joshua.

The eternal Sabbath in the beginning, is only a shadow in Joshua. In Christ it is another day

It is the rest of our inheritance in Christ. And it spoke in the context of Joshua, likened to Gods Sabbath rest of finishing all creation. It was all finished in the beginning. We can sit and go round and round with scripture, but I won't anymore. You can continue to make the Mosiac covenant eternal all you want. As far as I am concerned scripture is clear. The eternal inheritance is in the covenant before Sinai. Good day to you.

Yes yes, I hope everyone can read this post.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes yes, I hope everyone can read this post.

Jesus tells us not to break the least of the commandments or to teach others to break them quoting from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30 we should be careful of what people teach when vastly differing from what Jesus taught. It sounds nice that Jesus came to keep one of His commandments so we don’t have to because people have itching ears, but it’s not what Jesus came to do. He came to do the will of the Father John 6:38, He came to magnify the law which means make greater Isaiah 42:21 He came to save us from our sin Matthew 1:21, not save us in sin. He came to also show us the perfect way to live 1 John 2:6 and He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10 which includes the Sabbath commandment and tells us to keep the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 19:17-19 because He does not want us to sin, sin comes from the other spirit 1 John 3:8. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so teaching we can sin and break one of His commandments goes against the very reason Jesus came and His own teachings and is missing the very essence of what Hebrews is warning us about to not so and telling us what to continue doing Hebrews 4:9 NIV for God’s people.

 

[SuperCow]

By your own definition, you said gentiles do not follow the laws of Sinai, so where else did the laws come from in Acts? Or are you changing your mind again? Acts 15...Genesis 2...Genesis 9...

What laws and where are they written? What scripture? You keep repeating those three chapters as if they contain them, but I don't see any laws there. Most people here use scriptures to support their claims, not vague references to whole chapters with loosely related events.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

What laws and where are they written? What scripture? You keep repeating those three chapters as if they contain them, but I don't see any laws there. Most people here use scriptures to support their claims, not vague references to whole chapters with loosely related events.

You really can't find them? You want spoon fed...they are there, seek and you shall find...

 

[SuperCow]

You really can't find them? You want spoon fed...they are there, seek and you shall find...

No, and apparently you can't either.

 

[BobRyan]

What laws and where are they written? What scripture? You keep repeating those three chapters as if they contain them, but I don't see any laws there. Most people here use scriptures to support their claims, not vague references to whole chapters with loosely related events.

Gen 26:
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and fulfilled his duty to Me, and kept My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

2 Tim 3:16 - ALL scripture is inspired by God - so we can trust it without having to worry that may God did not know enough to say the right thing in scripture because it was so very long ago.

Moses writes the first five book of the Bible so then Genesis and Leviticus are given to Israel at Sinai right after they leave Egypt.

The phrase "commandments, statutes, laws" that we see in Gen 26, Deut 5:1,31 uses that phrase as does Lev 26:15 "statutes and commandments"

The readers of Genesis also had Leviticus.

So then in Gen 4 Cain is warned about the sin of murder even though the stone tablets are not there . This means Cain knew about God's law but that detail is not given for the reader of Genesis until they read Leviticus and also because they had experienced Ex 20 by the time they access Genesis. (That reader also had Leviticus and experienced Exodus.)

Same is true for the clean vs unclean animal distinctions in Gen 6-9 - so we can know what Noah knew because we have both books just as did Moses' readers at Sinai. The clean vs unclean definition is given in Lev 11 for the reader so the definition for what is meant - is there at the time these books are written by Moses and given for the people at Sinai.

Gen 2:1-3 shows us when Sabbath is set apart (sanctified) as a holy day - set apart for observance as Ex 20:11 reminds us.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

No, and apparently you can't either.

No it is only you that can't...apparently

 

[pasifika]

Jesus tells us not to break the least of the commandments or to teach others to break them quoting from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 5:19-30 we should be careful of what people teach when vastly differing from what Jesus taught. It sounds nice that Jesus came to keep one of His commandments so we don’t have to because people have itching ears, but it’s not what Jesus came to do. He came to do the will of the Father John 6:38, He came to magnify the law which means make greater Isaiah 42:21 He came to save us from our sin Matthew 1:21, not save us in sin. He came to also show us the perfect way to live 1 John 2:6 and He kept His Fathers commandments John 15:10 which includes the Sabbath commandment and tells us to keep the commandments of God Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 19:17-19 because He does not want us to sin, sin comes from the other spirit 1 John 3:8. Sin is the transgression of God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 so teaching we can sin and break one of His commandments goes against the very reason Jesus came and His own teachings and is missing the very essence of what Hebrews is warning us about to not so and telling us what to continue doing Hebrews 4:9 NIV for God’s people.

All the Law and Prophets point to Jesus. It's that simple and straight forward. You denying that the 10 commandments pointed to Jesus.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

All the Law and Prophets point to Jesus. It's that simple and straight forward. You denying that the 10 commandments pointed to Jesus.

The Ten Commandments do not point to Jesus at the cross, because it is what sin is when broken Romans 7:7 and Jesus did not come here or die so we can sin freely, which makes His sacrifice in vain. He came to save us from our sin, not in them and showed us the perfect way to live which is on obedience to the commandments. 1 John 2:6, John 15:10 Matthew 15:3-9, John 14:15, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:19-30

 

[pasifika]

The Ten Commandments do not point to Jesus at the cross, because it is what sin is when broken Romans 7:7 and Jesus did not come here or die so we can sin freely, which makes His sacrifice in vain. He came to save us from our sin, not in them and showed us the perfect way to live which is on obedience to the commandments. 1 John 2:6, John 15:10 Matthew 15:3-9, John 14:15, Matthew 19:17-19, Matthew 5:19-30

How about if you keep the 10 commandments? Does that still show you what sin is?

 

[SuperCow]

Gen 26:
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and fulfilled his duty to Me, and kept My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”

I have no problem with this concept. The issue I have is that we don't know what differences there are between what Abraham considered as laws, and what is explicitly in the Mosaic law code. The argument by some here seems to be that the Mosaic law code existed explicitly or implicitly back to Noah, but this can demonstrably be proven false by scripture.

There are obviously basic things that would seem to be obvious to us, like the 10 commandments. But even these were not obvious to the nations. Polytheism breaks the first 2 for instance. Only Israel kept the sabbath. How do you prove 10 if you aren't God? The only relatively universal laws repeated by Moses are that you must not murder or steal. And if you were a king or nobility in one of these other countries, you probably could get away with that too.

2 Tim 3:16 - ALL scripture is inspired by God - so we can trust it without having to worry that may God did not know enough to say the right thing in scripture because it was so very long ago.

Moses writes the first five book of the Bible so then Genesis and Leviticus are given to Israel at Sinai right after they leave Egypt.

The phrase "commandments, statutes, laws" that we see in Gen 26, Deut 5:1,31 uses that phrase as does Lev 26:15 "statutes and commandments"

No argument here.

The readers of Genesis also had Leviticus.

But not in its current form until Moses time, though Moses likely had access to historical writings of some kind or oral history. (Clearly Egyptian history, but also possibly from Abraham, Noah, Eber via his 40 years in Midian, ancestors of Abraham, or perhaps saved by members of the Israelites or even Joseph's tomb, etc.)

So then in Gen 4 Cain is warned about the sin of murder even though the stone tablets are not there . This means Cain knew about God's law but that detail is not given for the reader of Genesis until they read Leviticus and also because they had experienced Ex 20 by the time they access Genesis. (That reader also had Leviticus and experienced Exodus.)

True, but Cain was pardoned even though his action was premeditated (Genesis 4:15). According to the Mosaic law code he would have been executed.

Same is true for the clean vs unclean animal distinctions in Gen 6-9 - so we can know what Noah knew because we have both books just as did Moses' readers at Sinai. The clean vs unclean definition is given in Lev 11 for the reader so the definition for what is meant - is there at the time these books are written by Moses and given for the people at Sinai.

Noah knew about the unclean animal distinctions, but before the flood it is implied that Noah didn't eat animals, and after the flood, particularly in Genesis 9:3, there is unrestricted access to what animals could be eaten. Only the Mosaic law code restricted the eating of unclean animals.

Gen 2:1-3 shows us when Sabbath is set apart (sanctified) as a holy day - set apart for observance as Ex 20:11 reminds us.

For at least 80 years, the Israelites could not observe the sabbath, as they were oppressed slaves in Egypt. Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Noah and others may have observed the sabbath, but the arguments for this are speculative and not explicitly in the Bible. Neither are laws that Noah and Abraham had to abide by. They obviously had laws, but we cannot prove what they are and how similar they are to the Mosaic law code.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

How about if you keep the 10 commandments? Does that still show you what sin is?

The Ten Commandment is what reveals sin according to scripture.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

There is only one place we find this law and that is the Ten Commandments Exodus 20, this is the law of God written personally by God and spoken by God Exodus 31:18 as these are His perfect works Exodus 32:16 that man cannot add to or take away from Deut 4:2 because man is not above God.