How to win against:Sexual immortality

[Oneofhope]

We hear a lot of people say, "the scripture indicates something to me", and we hear of the Peoples Temple, Kidwelly, and others.
I tend to stay away from "the scripture indicates", especially when no other scriptures are used to verify the assumption.

Gotchya. I'll add "indicates" to the list of words that shouldn't be used.

 

[CoreyD]

Gotchya. I'll add "indicates" to the list of words that shouldn't be used.

Evidently you did not get me. Especially when no other scriptures are used to verify the assumption, it's best to be on the side of caution, considering how easy people form cults, and people join them.

 

[Oneofhope]

Evidently you did not get me.

100%

 

[Larniavc]

Conquering sexual immortality is not easy, especially if you are young.

What I don't get is why God labels it as immorality. If no one is being hurt why is God against it?

 

[Oneofhope]

What I don't get is why God labels it as immorality. If no one is being hurt why is God against it?

Great point. Consenting intercourse, as far as I can determine, is not a sin. Sure, the Jews were intermarrying with those from the Seven Nations (Canaanites, Hittites, etc), thus the Vine of Christ became corrupt. Israel was commanded not to intermarry with those abominations, therefore when they were compelled to disobey (and be intimate with them), Israel was guilty of sin.

So what is "sexual immorality?" Would it not be sexual man on man or woman on woman? Would it not be bestiality? Would it not be to use women as a source of physical pleasure?

And so what I have written above is that sexual intercourse [is] the marriage between two people. A marriage certificate is a public demonstration and proclamation that said marriage has taken place. And so, if a man and woman were stranded on an island, just the two of them, and should they become intimate, is there no marriage because a court is not present to confirm and grant a license? I would offer a convincing "No." Marriage has already taken place. Unity between the two has made them one.

"Genesis 2:24 NKJV - "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

The above is either True or false, depending on what works for a person. But if the above passage is True, then when intercourse takes place, those two people have become one flesh. I believe what Scripture says.

So men, the last woman you made love to . . . she is to be the last. Get control over yourselves and stop imitating the Blessed Jews of old.

 

[CoreyD]

What I don't get is why God labels it as immorality. If no one is being hurt why is God against it?

That is an excellent question.
I think the best way to help you fully understand, is to use God's own example.

You know God is faithful, loyal. He would never be unfaithful or disloyal. He remains committed, and will not break a vow.
When God made a covenant - agreement with his people, it became like a marriage vow, so that when they - not God - broke the covenant, they were like an unfaithful wife - an adulteress. See Isaiah 54:5, 6;

As you know, the human family was to be as God is. So, a man and woman were to be committed to each other as husband and wife. That bond of union - marriage - was never to be broken. See Mark 10:6-9
A vow, of commitment in marriage then, was to be permanent. (sin interrupted God's original purpose - only temporarily.)

God's original purpose involved family.
You know this well. God told Adam and Eve to multiply and fill the earth. Obviously not like animals do - with the male threading any female he finds
Rather, the children of Adam and Eve would not have ten dads, or twenty moms. They would know Daddy, and Mommy. What is more, that family would be together permanently. No divorce. See Malachi 2:16

Cohabiting, - as we know - does not work that way. There is no commitment. Anyone can pack up and leave any time, leaving children with one parent, and later, maybe another dad, or mom. Without commitment unfaithfulness does not exist.
The husband and wife provided a balance in the family. See Genesis 1:13

So, fornication - which is not restricted to sex outside of marriage, adultery, and other sexual sins is called sexual immorality, since these things are against God's moral standards.
I hope I did not complicate things, and that was helpful.

 

[CoreyD]

And so what I have written above is that sexual intercourse [is] the marriage between two people. A marriage certificate is a public demonstration and proclamation that said marriage has taken place. And so, if a man and woman were stranded on an island, just the two of them, and should they become intimate, is there no marriage because a court is not present to confirm and grant a license? I would offer a convincing "No." Marriage has already taken place. Unity between the two has made them one.

"Genesis 2:24 NKJV - "Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh."

The above is either True or false, depending on what works for a person. But if the above passage is True, then when intercourse takes place, those two people have become one flesh. I believe what Scripture says.

So men, the last woman you made love to . . . she is to be the last. Get control over yourselves and stop imitating the Blessed Jews of old.

I hope you would not mind explaining in whose eyes a marriage takes place if two unmarried people on a deserted island has sex together. I really would be interested in that explanation.
Also, could you explain how we can get this knowledge. I'd be interested in that too.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Oneofhope]

I hope you would not mind explaining in whose eyes a marriage takes place if two unmarried people on a deserted island has sex together.

The union has been established between the two and it is done before the only One who matters . . .

Also, could you explain how we can get this knowledge.

From Scripture . . .

Matthew 19:4-6 NLT - "Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.' 5 And he said, 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.' 6 Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together."

 

[CoreyD]

The union has been established between the two and it is done before the only One who matters . . .


From Scripture . . .

Matthew 19:4-6 NLT - "Haven't you read the Scriptures?" Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning 'God made them male and female.' 5 And he said, 'This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one.' 6 Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together."

This is a very interesting discussion. Thanks.
Something I am thinking about. Baptism.
Why is baptism required?

 

[Oneofhope]

Why is baptism required?

Will have to save that for a different thread, lest we be accused of "hijacking."

 

[CoreyD]

Will have to save that for a different thread, lest we be accused of "hijacking."

You probably missed my intent. It's not a different topic.
We use examples, or illustrations, to explain a subject. I'm using baptism as an example to make a point on marriage.
So, I'm asking why is baptism required.

However, I'll go ahead and make the point.
Baptism is an outward symbol of one's personal dedication to God. I don't know if this is something you accept.
So while one goes to God in private, and expresses his vow to do God's will, God requires that one make a public expression of that vow.

While Jesus vowed to do God's will - something personal between God and himself, he made it public with baptism. Our baptism is a public symbol. Our sins are not washed away by the water, as you know.
So, God requires we let it be publicly known, that we belong to him, and are living our lives no longer for ourselves, but for him.

A man and woman makes a vow privately, yes.
They have not done so publicly.
Unless they make it official - public, is it a marriage? Only to them. Is that not true?

If two people love each other, and want to marry, but are stranded on an island, that does not make it excusable to do what any unbeliever would do.
In fact, the unbeliever would be delighted to see that, and what a dishonor to the God they claim to represent.
The Christian does things God's way, not his own. See Romans 13:1-5

I think you disagree, but I'm interested in hearing what you say.

 

[Larniavc]

He would never be unfaithful or disloyal.

This is not true. The whole of the second half of Psalm 89 is Ethan castigating God for his unfaithfulness.

 

[CoreyD]

This is not true. The whole of the second half of Psalm 89 is Ethan castigating God for his unfaithfulness.

That's quite a long Psalm.
34“I will not violate My covenant, Nor will I alter the utterance of My lips.
35“Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David.

So far, I have not seen anything "castigating God for his unfaithfulness". Hence it cannot be the whole of the second half. Or did I not reach the second half? What's the second half? You will need to be specific.

 

[Oneofhope]

You probably missed my intent. It's not a different topic.
We use examples, or illustrations, to explain a subject. I'm using baptism as an example to make a point on marriage.
So, I'm asking why is baptism required.

However, I'll go ahead and make the point.
Baptism is an outward symbol of one's personal dedication to God. I don't know if this is something you accept.
So while one goes to God in private, and expresses his vow to do God's will, God requires that one make a public expression of that vow.

While Jesus vowed to do God's will - something personal between God and himself, he made it public with baptism. Our baptism is a public symbol. Our sins are not washed away by the water, as you know.
So, God requires we let it be publicly known, that we belong to him, and are living our lives no longer for ourselves, but for him.

A man and woman makes a vow privately, yes.
They have not done so publicly.
Unless they make it official - public, is it a marriage? Only to them. Is that not true?

If two people love each other, and want to marry, but are stranded on an island, that does not make it excusable to do what any unbeliever would do.
In fact, the unbeliever would be delighted to see that, and what a dishonor to the God they claim to represent.
The Christian does things God's way, not his own. See Romans 13:1-5

I think you disagree, but I'm interested in hearing what you say.

I would never place worldly laws over Spiritual Laws. You seem to be more focused on the laws of this world rather than the Laws of the Spirit of Life. You are viewing this world with worldly eyes and not with Spiritual eyes that peer into the Spiritual Realm. Because of this, I will need to back out of this conversation. I wish you the best.

 

[CoreyD]

I would never place worldly laws over Spiritual Laws. You seem to be more focused on the laws of this world rather than the Laws of the Spirit of Life. You are viewing this world with worldly eyes and not with Spiritual eyes that peer into the Spiritual Realm. Because of this, I will need to back out of this conversation. I wish you the best.

Take care.

 

[Larniavc]

That's quite a long Psalm.
34“I will not violate My covenant, Nor will I alter the utterance of My lips.
35“Once I have sworn by My holiness; I will not lie to David.

So far, I have not seen anything "castigating God for his unfaithfulness". Hence it cannot be the whole of the second half. Or did I not reach the second half? What's the second half? You will need to be specific.

Keep reading. What does 38 on wards tell you? Don't Christians have to know all this?

 

[CoreyD]

Keep reading. What does 38 on wards tell you? Don't Christians have to know all this?

The Bible is a big book. Of course we read it, repeatedly, but unfortunately, I wasn't blessed with the memory of a perfect man. I look forward to that time though.

Yes, I read it. Do you know what the Psalmist is talking about? Just checking. I should have asked. Are you a Christian?
If yes, What is the Psalmist talking about - what is the situation being referred to, in other words? Do you know?

Just to let you know though, he is not saying God is unfaithful. He makes that clear both at the beginning and at the end.
Blessed be the LORD forever! Amen and Amen. Psalm 89:52

 

[Oneofhope]

This is not true.

This is undoubtedly off-topic, but CoreyD must be correct. Why? Because God has an Eternal Plan. So, if the Lord were to be unfaithful to His Holy Elect, He would also be unfaithful to His own Mysterious Plan. That said, there [is] an Eternal Plan that has been, still is and always will be executed. This Plan of God is the only possible way for physical creation to proceed. In fact, Psalms 89 is a critical, cornerstone chapter as it outlines much of the Mysterious Plan kept hidden from the beginning and hidden specifically from the Blessed Jews.

As for Ethan castigating the Lord: I would say that perhaps you might be reading this incorrectly. I see Ethan as one who is merely recounting the things that God had done. This is not a complaint, but more of recapping things done. I also doubt that Ethan is going after God the way that Job and Moses had, but instead, Ethan is taking a much more level-headed approach to what God has done.

 

[CoreyD]

This is undoubtedly off-topic, but CoreyD must be correct. Why? Because God has an Eternal Plan. So, if the Lord were to be unfaithful to His Holy Elect, He would also be unfaithful to His own Mysterious Plan. That said, there [is] an Eternal Plan that has been, still is and always will be executed. This Plan of God is the only possible way for physical creation to proceed. In fact, Psalms 89 is a critical, cornerstone chapter as it outlines much of the Mysterious Plan kept hidden from the beginning and hidden specifically from the Blessed Jews.

As for Ethan castigating the Lord: I would say that perhaps you might be reading this incorrectly. I see Ethan as one who is merely recounting the things that God had done. This is not a complaint, but more of recapping things done. I also doubt that Ethan is going after God the way that Job and Moses had, but instead, Ethan is taking a much more level-headed approach to what God has done.

I have to apologize to @Lamievc for asking if he/she is a Christian.
I just looked at the profile, and saw Atheist, so that explains why they took that approach.

My experience with atheist, is they usually don't consider context, but pick out parts they think they can make an argument supporting their position.

The problem with that approach is, it ignores the facts.
It's like someone traveling along a path, hearing the middle of a conversation, not knowing what it's about, but making a judgment.

@Lamievc doesn't seem to be around, but I'll still explain, in case he can read it.
Just think of it this way. Lamievc. You made an agreement with a company - signed a contract. They broke the contract. What do you do with it? It's no longer valid. You would rip it up and throw it away.
That doesn't mean you were unfaithful. The other party did not keep their side of the bargain.

It would be good to consider, for future, the context.
The Psalmist commended God's faithfulness, at the beginning - Psalm 89:1 A Maskil of Ethan the Ezrahite. I will sing of the graciousness of the LORD forever; To all generations I will make Your faithfulness known with my mouth - and at the end - Psalm 89:52 Blessed be the LORD forever! Amen and Amen.

He briefly lamented the sad results of Israel's king's unfaithfulness.
Take care. Hope to see you again.

 

[ViaCrucis]

It's good that you feel remorse over your sin.
The Bible tells us, that opens the way for forgiveness.

Conquering sexual immortality is not easy, especially if you are young.
Paul said, at 1 Corinthians 7:36, if a man is behaving improperly sexually, and he and the other, are past youth, they should marry.
In other words, it is better to marry than behave improperly to her, or yourself (1 Corinthians 6:18).

If a person goes so far as to commit immorality, they should not have a problem marrying that person, at least if they respect them.

Resisting giving in to sexual immorality though can be accomplished if you 1) acknowledge that you have a weakness, and are doing wrong; 2) Ask for God's help in prayer; Make all earnest effort 3) by avoiding putting yourself, or being in situations that could lead to sexual immorality; 4) by resisting giving in to do wrong.

If a person is in a situation already, where they may be, say, kissing, it may be hard to exercise self control and not go further. However, it will require mental effort to resist giving in, but there is time to do so.
It's obviously better to avoid finding yourself in that situation in the first place though.

I wish you well in your efforts.
You can win the fight. Just do not give us, but pray to God to help you not to give in either, and make every effort not to.

1 Corinthians 7:36 concerns those who are already betrothed, and only if it makes sense. Basically, if the two are going to get married anyway, and if they aren't able to hold themselves back, then let them get married sooner.

It's hard to translate that in a modern context, because that's just not how things are done today. We don't, at least here in the West, arrange marriages where two are betrothed to one another for some time.

What I think we can learn from St. Paul here is that chastity is something we commit ourselves to out of love and respect toward others. We tell our passions no, so that they don't rule over us. We commit ourselves to respect toward others.

-CryptoLutheran